Rely on my last post about first image of Queen, now I would like to ask what did you think about "who sings it, who plays it?".
I thought Brian and Freddie were all lead singers. Brian was a Bariton - Bass. And Freddie was a Tenor. When I listened to WWRY, I thought that was Brian's singing :D
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The three of them were tenors. And as a matter of fact Freddie could go lower than Dr May (it was Fred who did the lowest bits in 'Bo Rhap', 'Somebody To Love', 'Flick Of The Wrist' and 'All Dead').
That might be to do with the fact that Freddie could actually sing, whilst Brian just hums in tune, basically.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]That might be to do with the fact that Freddie could actually sing, whilst Brian just hums in tune, basically.[/QUOTE]
Thats absolute and utter rubish, listen to the last verse of Mother Love.
Brian can definately sing.
Thats absolute and utter rubish, listen to the last verse of Mother Love.
Brian can definately sing.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The three of them were tenors. And as a matter of fact Freddie could go lower than Dr May (it was Fred who did the lowest bits in 'Bo Rhap', 'Somebody To Love', 'Flick Of The Wrist' and 'All Dead').[/QUOTE]
here we go again.
"three of them were tenors"
NOPE! just because thats your opinion, it doesn't make it true.
do your research!
But i cant be fucked to argue about this anymore! its pointless! i guess some people will believe what they WANT to believe... wrong or not.
here we go again.
"three of them were tenors"
NOPE! just because thats your opinion, it doesn't make it true.
do your research!
But i cant be fucked to argue about this anymore! its pointless! i guess some people will believe what they WANT to believe... wrong or not.
Please humour us and explain. Otherwise you might as well not comment
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]inmydefence wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The three of them were tenors. And as a matter of fact Freddie could go lower than Dr May (it was Fred who did the lowest bits in 'Bo Rhap', 'Somebody To Love', 'Flick Of The Wrist' and 'All Dead').[/QUOTE]
here we go again.
"three of them were tenors"
NOPE! just because thats your opinion, it doesn't make it true.
do your research!
But i cant be fucked to argue about this anymore! its pointless! i guess some people will believe what they WANT to believe... wrong or not.
[/QUOTE]
That actually made me laugh here... "Do your research". Have you ever cared to read his website? I can't think of anyone who's done a better research on the subject than him. His website offers information about who wrote/co-wrote each song, who played each instrument in every song, etc, etc.
I think you should think twice before saying "do your research" to someone who's already e-mailed Brian to get information to make his research more complete.
Why don't you share some of YOUR research with us?
here we go again.
"three of them were tenors"
NOPE! just because thats your opinion, it doesn't make it true.
do your research!
But i cant be fucked to argue about this anymore! its pointless! i guess some people will believe what they WANT to believe... wrong or not.
[/QUOTE]
That actually made me laugh here... "Do your research". Have you ever cared to read his website? I can't think of anyone who's done a better research on the subject than him. His website offers information about who wrote/co-wrote each song, who played each instrument in every song, etc, etc.
I think you should think twice before saying "do your research" to someone who's already e-mailed Brian to get information to make his research more complete.
Why don't you share some of YOUR research with us?
Even though I don't agree on everything Sebastian thinks (mainly it's about Freddie coming up with the borhap solo, and that John sings backing vocals on studio albums) you can't say he doesn't know his stuff or that he didn't do his research.
Thats just ignorant. Look at his website if you need proof
Thats just ignorant. Look at his website if you need proof
Anyway, this thread isn't about my credibility (or lack of it), it's about the voices of Roger, Freddie and Brian, the three of which were obviously tenors.
Listen to Brian's superb falsetto in 'Under Pressure' or 'Teo Torriatte' during the tour with Paul, or to Roger's effortless high E in 'More Of That Jazz' (done without falsetto), or Freddie's powerful bits in 'Show Must Go On' ... no bass or baritone can do those notes with such ease.
Likewise, even though the three of them could sing quite low (and not only Brian and/or Freddie as many tend to believe), their high range was/is notably stronger. When Fred sang as a baritone (e.g. 'Ensueño') he was indeed "humming" or "whispering" in tune, rather than actually singing.
PS: Some things can be classified as opinions, but not all of them: one person may think Michael Owen's a better player than David Beckham, and another person may think otherwise. Those are opinions. Otoh, Owen's height is 5' 8", while Beckham's is 6", so it's a fact that the Posh consort is taller.
Listen to Brian's superb falsetto in 'Under Pressure' or 'Teo Torriatte' during the tour with Paul, or to Roger's effortless high E in 'More Of That Jazz' (done without falsetto), or Freddie's powerful bits in 'Show Must Go On' ... no bass or baritone can do those notes with such ease.
Likewise, even though the three of them could sing quite low (and not only Brian and/or Freddie as many tend to believe), their high range was/is notably stronger. When Fred sang as a baritone (e.g. 'Ensueño') he was indeed "humming" or "whispering" in tune, rather than actually singing.
PS: Some things can be classified as opinions, but not all of them: one person may think Michael Owen's a better player than David Beckham, and another person may think otherwise. Those are opinions. Otoh, Owen's height is 5' 8", while Beckham's is 6", so it's a fact that the Posh consort is taller.
" Please humour us and explain. Otherwise you might as well not comment"
i wasn't aware it needed an explanation as its been discussed on queenzone so often.
But ok.....
Roger was a tenor. never disputed that. i simply said the statement "the three of them were tenors" is false. roger definately was (though I think he lacks alot of the vocal qualities that make most tenors so great to listen to).
brian and freddie were NOT.
Don't get me wrong, I like Seb's site. i think its great.
but cataloging every queen concert does not consitute research into freddie's voice.
I didn't mean to appear disrespectful but it irritates me that members of queenzone, especially ones as respected ad Seb, state things like that as FACT, when IF you research THE SUBJECT IN QUESTION is soon clear to see that Freddie and Brian were baritones.
It doesn't mean they weren't great singers, or that they couldn't force they voices into the tenor range if needed. it simply means tenor is not their natural range. and there's no shame in that!
THIS is research into freddie's voice.
www.f-mercury.com.ar
it also states that freddie and brian were both baritones.
Montserrat Caballé also said freddie is a baritone, and if she isn't experience enough to know about vocal classification then nobody is.
What more research do you need?
i wasn't aware it needed an explanation as its been discussed on queenzone so often.
But ok.....
Roger was a tenor. never disputed that. i simply said the statement "the three of them were tenors" is false. roger definately was (though I think he lacks alot of the vocal qualities that make most tenors so great to listen to).
brian and freddie were NOT.
Don't get me wrong, I like Seb's site. i think its great.
but cataloging every queen concert does not consitute research into freddie's voice.
I didn't mean to appear disrespectful but it irritates me that members of queenzone, especially ones as respected ad Seb, state things like that as FACT, when IF you research THE SUBJECT IN QUESTION is soon clear to see that Freddie and Brian were baritones.
It doesn't mean they weren't great singers, or that they couldn't force they voices into the tenor range if needed. it simply means tenor is not their natural range. and there's no shame in that!
THIS is research into freddie's voice.
www.f-mercury.com.ar
it also states that freddie and brian were both baritones.
Montserrat Caballé also said freddie is a baritone, and if she isn't experience enough to know about vocal classification then nobody is.
What more research do you need?
> Don't get me wrong, I like Seb's site. i think its great. but cataloging every queen concert does not consitute research into freddie's voice.
QueenConcerts isn't my website. And yes, you're right that I haven't done a deep research on Freddie's voice, but enough to be sure he was a tenor.
> it irritates me that members of queenzone, especially ones as respected ad Seb, state things like that as FACT
Yes and no ... it's not a matter of "I said so, thus it's a fact"; it's a matter of "20 years of recordings with Freddie's voice (live and in the studio) prove that Fred being a tenor is a fact".
> It doesn't mean they weren't great singers, or that they couldn't force they voices into the tenor range if needed.
It's quite the opposite: Freddie and Brian (and Roger for that matter) were tenors who could cover baritone (or even bass) range for some extent.
> it simply means tenor is not their natural range. and there's no shame in that!
Of course not, but it's not a matter of "shame". Freddie and Brian were tenors, not baritones. And it's not me who's saying that, but loads of recordings.
> www.f-mercury.com.ar
>it also states that freddie and brian were both baritones.
Yes, but otoh it mentions (http://www.f-mercury.com.ar/eng_classification.htm) a tenor's normal extension as being between the C below middle and the C above. If you listen to Brian's range (on his solo tours or when he sings lead on the Brian + Roger + Paul gigs) it corresponds more to that, than baritone (even though he could cover baritone notes as well). Freddie, in contrast, did sing live on a more baritone range, but it was more related with his nodules and his (imperfect) technique than with his (allegedly baritone) range.
> Montserrat Caballé also said freddie is a baritone
Yes, and I *had* supported such affirmation based on that comment, but I'm glad to have been corrected and now I've "joined" the "Fred was a tenor" group, because it's clear that he was.
Otoh we must keep in mind that it's not that Montserrat said that. It's more something along the lines of "Peter Freestone (or was it David Richards?) said that Montsy had told Freddie to 'sing in his natural baritone for the first time on a recording'". It's not that I'm discrediting Phoebe or Montserrat (or anybody whose opinion doesn't match mine), but I really think that we should take these kind of quotes with care. I'm not calling Phoebe a liar, but couldn't he have unintentionally misremembered the exact wording after seventeen years?
> and if she isn't experience enough to know about vocal classification then nobody is.
Actually, I disagree here: the fact she's an extraordinary singer doesn't mean she's necessarily a voice classifier. Besides, as we've confirmed here, it's not *that* easy to label (at least in this case), so perhaps she thought he was a baritone (assuming that Phoebe's comment is accurate and that he didn't misremember or that there weren't any "Chinese whispers" involved).
It's, again, not a matter of "the superb bel-canto diva" vs "a narrow-minded QZ poster", it's a matter of "a (possibly misquoted) deduction from a (possibly misquoted) comment that a (possibly misquoted) person did after listening to Freddie's (possibly misleading) large range" vs "over fifteen albums as part of Queen + one solo album + one duet album + several collaborations, proving that Fred's voice was indeed that of a tenor".
QueenConcerts isn't my website. And yes, you're right that I haven't done a deep research on Freddie's voice, but enough to be sure he was a tenor.
> it irritates me that members of queenzone, especially ones as respected ad Seb, state things like that as FACT
Yes and no ... it's not a matter of "I said so, thus it's a fact"; it's a matter of "20 years of recordings with Freddie's voice (live and in the studio) prove that Fred being a tenor is a fact".
> It doesn't mean they weren't great singers, or that they couldn't force they voices into the tenor range if needed.
It's quite the opposite: Freddie and Brian (and Roger for that matter) were tenors who could cover baritone (or even bass) range for some extent.
> it simply means tenor is not their natural range. and there's no shame in that!
Of course not, but it's not a matter of "shame". Freddie and Brian were tenors, not baritones. And it's not me who's saying that, but loads of recordings.
> www.f-mercury.com.ar
>it also states that freddie and brian were both baritones.
Yes, but otoh it mentions (http://www.f-mercury.com.ar/eng_classification.htm) a tenor's normal extension as being between the C below middle and the C above. If you listen to Brian's range (on his solo tours or when he sings lead on the Brian + Roger + Paul gigs) it corresponds more to that, than baritone (even though he could cover baritone notes as well). Freddie, in contrast, did sing live on a more baritone range, but it was more related with his nodules and his (imperfect) technique than with his (allegedly baritone) range.
> Montserrat Caballé also said freddie is a baritone
Yes, and I *had* supported such affirmation based on that comment, but I'm glad to have been corrected and now I've "joined" the "Fred was a tenor" group, because it's clear that he was.
Otoh we must keep in mind that it's not that Montserrat said that. It's more something along the lines of "Peter Freestone (or was it David Richards?) said that Montsy had told Freddie to 'sing in his natural baritone for the first time on a recording'". It's not that I'm discrediting Phoebe or Montserrat (or anybody whose opinion doesn't match mine), but I really think that we should take these kind of quotes with care. I'm not calling Phoebe a liar, but couldn't he have unintentionally misremembered the exact wording after seventeen years?
> and if she isn't experience enough to know about vocal classification then nobody is.
Actually, I disagree here: the fact she's an extraordinary singer doesn't mean she's necessarily a voice classifier. Besides, as we've confirmed here, it's not *that* easy to label (at least in this case), so perhaps she thought he was a baritone (assuming that Phoebe's comment is accurate and that he didn't misremember or that there weren't any "Chinese whispers" involved).
It's, again, not a matter of "the superb bel-canto diva" vs "a narrow-minded QZ poster", it's a matter of "a (possibly misquoted) deduction from a (possibly misquoted) comment that a (possibly misquoted) person did after listening to Freddie's (possibly misleading) large range" vs "over fifteen albums as part of Queen + one solo album + one duet album + several collaborations, proving that Fred's voice was indeed that of a tenor".
possibly possibly possibly. well You're entitled to believe what you like.
the Webmaster of that site is a professor of music. so im pretty sure he knows his stuff.
the quote is from an interview with Montserrat Caballé which i believe is in the FM 10 disc box set.
its here also on this website
http://www.mercury-and-queen.com/allround.htm
anyway, we could argue about this all we like, I'll take my information from what hard evidence is available. Andres' site and the NUMEROUS other that quote it as a highly reliable source, and you believe the opposite because of what you hear on all these numerous albums.
I'm not convinced you are correctly interpreting what you're hearing as you said you haven't studied vocal technique. in the grand scheme of things it makes no difference. i only considered it necessary to respond to correct your erroneous "fact".
the Webmaster of that site is a professor of music. so im pretty sure he knows his stuff.
the quote is from an interview with Montserrat Caballé which i believe is in the FM 10 disc box set.
its here also on this website
http://www.mercury-and-queen.com/allround.htm
anyway, we could argue about this all we like, I'll take my information from what hard evidence is available. Andres' site and the NUMEROUS other that quote it as a highly reliable source, and you believe the opposite because of what you hear on all these numerous albums.
I'm not convinced you are correctly interpreting what you're hearing as you said you haven't studied vocal technique. in the grand scheme of things it makes no difference. i only considered it necessary to respond to correct your erroneous "fact".
I didn't say I haven't made a research on vocal technique, I said I haven't made a thorough research on Freddie's vocal technique.
Anyway, I do concede that this discussion hasn't got an *obvious* consequence. It's like... a person who's 6 1/2 ft is obviously tall, but a person who's 5' 8" may be "tall" according to some parameters, "average" according to others.
I still consider Freddie to be a tenor in spite of Andres' research (which IMO has been admirable in most departments, but not in this one), and in spite of Montserrat's quote (which I didn't know could be found on the Boxset, so I apologise for that).
Anyway, I do concede that this discussion hasn't got an *obvious* consequence. It's like... a person who's 6 1/2 ft is obviously tall, but a person who's 5' 8" may be "tall" according to some parameters, "average" according to others.
I still consider Freddie to be a tenor in spite of Andres' research (which IMO has been admirable in most departments, but not in this one), and in spite of Montserrat's quote (which I didn't know could be found on the Boxset, so I apologise for that).
"Listen to Brian's superb falsetto in 'Under Pressure' or 'Teo Torriatte' during the tour with Paul"
Woah, what the?!? I thought you hadn't listened to any of that stuff!! :P
"That might be to do with the fact that Freddie could actually sing, whilst Brian just hums in tune, basically."
Ey??
I've always thought that Brian was a really great singer with a poor instrument (poor for the things he occasionally tries to do with it, at least).
Woah, what the?!? I thought you hadn't listened to any of that stuff!! :P
"That might be to do with the fact that Freddie could actually sing, whilst Brian just hums in tune, basically."
Ey??
I've always thought that Brian was a really great singer with a poor instrument (poor for the things he occasionally tries to do with it, at least).
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Woah, what the?!? I thought you hadn't listened to any of that stuff!! :P[/QUOTE]
I hadn't until last week. Then I watched some videos in YouTube and loved them. 'I Want It All' sounds fantastic, so do 'Pressure', 'Teo' and 'Imagine', and 'Champions' is much better than when the true Queen did it.
So I'm even stronger in my point than I was before: Roger + Brian + Paul is an extraordinary combination, so they should really write a new chapter in music. And of course, new chapter means a new name instead of pathetically living off the past.
I hadn't until last week. Then I watched some videos in YouTube and loved them. 'I Want It All' sounds fantastic, so do 'Pressure', 'Teo' and 'Imagine', and 'Champions' is much better than when the true Queen did it.
So I'm even stronger in my point than I was before: Roger + Brian + Paul is an extraordinary combination, so they should really write a new chapter in music. And of course, new chapter means a new name instead of pathetically living off the past.