it's a nice, simple song.
a lot of Queen fans seem to believe a song MUST be complex and sophisticated.
well, if complexity and sophistication are objective criteria to judge music, why listen to rock'n'roll to begin with?
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zak Royen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]could you please provide the name of a song "identical to" Say It's Not True?
when i quoted those lines from Good Company, i did have the vocal delivery in mind, not the lyrics themselves.
yes, i think the delivery is expressive, sincere, and quite frankly beautiful. it's hard for me to understand how anyone would fail to "see" that beauty, but i guess i might as well accept it ;)[/QUOTE]
Do I have to provide a name for a whining song backed by an acoustic solo guitar before you believe there's one? How about Is This the World We Created, which (even though is better than SINT because of a better singer) is still as unimaginative as a piece of empty paper.
Really now... There is absolutely no emotion conveyed in Good Company, not even in the part you quoted. Maybe that's the point of the lyrics 'marriage is an institution', but in a "protest" song it's pretty important.
Even though I would agree with you that not every song has to be groundbreaking, I have to at the same time accept that it is exactly what defines Queen to the people who own the entire back catalogue. The albums (and songs) with less originality are the ones that are less liked, just like the solo albums in general.
I wouldn't expect everyone to share my opinion, but I do think quite a few will anyway... It just isn't that good an effort if you compare it to Queen songs, like we are forced to.
when i quoted those lines from Good Company, i did have the vocal delivery in mind, not the lyrics themselves.
yes, i think the delivery is expressive, sincere, and quite frankly beautiful. it's hard for me to understand how anyone would fail to "see" that beauty, but i guess i might as well accept it ;)[/QUOTE]
Do I have to provide a name for a whining song backed by an acoustic solo guitar before you believe there's one? How about Is This the World We Created, which (even though is better than SINT because of a better singer) is still as unimaginative as a piece of empty paper.
Really now... There is absolutely no emotion conveyed in Good Company, not even in the part you quoted. Maybe that's the point of the lyrics 'marriage is an institution', but in a "protest" song it's pretty important.
Even though I would agree with you that not every song has to be groundbreaking, I have to at the same time accept that it is exactly what defines Queen to the people who own the entire back catalogue. The albums (and songs) with less originality are the ones that are less liked, just like the solo albums in general.
I wouldn't expect everyone to share my opinion, but I do think quite a few will anyway... It just isn't that good an effort if you compare it to Queen songs, like we are forced to.
i suppose you meant "sad", not "whining". we're talking about AIDS and starvation, man. i mean i understand you're not supposed to enjoy sad songs about AIDS and starving children if you intend to be a toughie. you may say that Roger is "whining" like a baby if you like... but in that case, i'll have a hard time trusting your sensitivity as a barometer to assess the level of expression in "Good Company"!
for years and years, i've heard people say, "Brian's voice is so-so, but it's always very emotional".
for the first time in my life, i hear someone claim that "there's as much emotion in Brian's voice as in a synthesized voice".
i salute you for your boldness, but when thousands of people are able to see something and you're not, do you still think they're wrong?
for the first time in my life, i hear someone claim that "there's as much emotion in Brian's voice as in a synthesized voice".
i salute you for your boldness, but when thousands of people are able to see something and you're not, do you still think they're wrong?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zak Royen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]i suppose you meant "sad", not "whining". we're talking about AIDS and starvation, man. i mean i understand you're not supposed to enjoy sad songs about AIDS and starving children if you intend to be a toughie. you may say that Roger is "whining" like a baby if you like... but in that case, i'll have a hard time trusting your sensitivity as a barometer to assess the level of expression in "Good Company"!
[/QUOTE]
The topic might be serious (like hundreds of acoustic protests songs and folk songs have had before), but in this case even the physical (or should that be audible?) performance has a literally whining sound. That's just Roger's singing style which might suit some other songs, but not this one.
[/QUOTE]
The topic might be serious (like hundreds of acoustic protests songs and folk songs have had before), but in this case even the physical (or should that be audible?) performance has a literally whining sound. That's just Roger's singing style which might suit some other songs, but not this one.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zak Royen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]for years and years, i've heard people say, "Brian's voice is so-so, but it's always very emotional".
for the first time in my life, i hear someone claim that "there's as much emotion in Brian's voice as in a synthesized voice".
i salute you for your boldness, but when thousands of people are able to see something and you're not, do you still think they're wrong?
[/QUOTE]
Well I haven't said it's emotional, and I honestly can't remember anyone else praising him for it either... Are you sure that isn't just your wishful thinking?
I've personally always felt it was weak, monotonous and unexpressive, and Good Company is just one of the songs where that's apparent. Should I change my opinion because somebody else disagrees with it? Should I change it because a thousand other people disagree with it?
Maybe we should just have a poll (say 10,000 random people from around the world) to determine which opinion is more common, and therefore 'right'. Would either of us be happy to change our opinions after that and agree that others are 'right' and we are 'wrong'? :P
for the first time in my life, i hear someone claim that "there's as much emotion in Brian's voice as in a synthesized voice".
i salute you for your boldness, but when thousands of people are able to see something and you're not, do you still think they're wrong?
[/QUOTE]
Well I haven't said it's emotional, and I honestly can't remember anyone else praising him for it either... Are you sure that isn't just your wishful thinking?
I've personally always felt it was weak, monotonous and unexpressive, and Good Company is just one of the songs where that's apparent. Should I change my opinion because somebody else disagrees with it? Should I change it because a thousand other people disagree with it?
Maybe we should just have a poll (say 10,000 random people from around the world) to determine which opinion is more common, and therefore 'right'. Would either of us be happy to change our opinions after that and agree that others are 'right' and we are 'wrong'? :P
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Tero wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zak Royen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]for years and years, i've heard people say, "Brian's voice is so-so, but it's always very emotional".
for the first time in my life, i hear someone claim that "there's as much emotion in Brian's voice as in a synthesized voice".
i salute you for your boldness, but when thousands of people are able to see something and you're not, do you still think they're wrong?
[/QUOTE]
Well I haven't said it's emotional, and I honestly can't remember anyone else praising him for it either... Are you sure that isn't just your wishful thinking?[/quote]
absolutely positive, Tero.
or that might just be another QOL/QZ difference.
[quote]I've personally always felt it was weak, monotonous and unexpressive, and Good Company is just one of the songs where that's apparent. Should I change my opinion because somebody else disagrees with it? Should I change it because a thousand other people disagree with it?
Maybe we should just have a poll (say 10,000 random people from around the world) to determine which opinion is more common, and therefore 'right'. Would either of us be happy to change our opinions after that and agree that others are 'right' and we are 'wrong'? :P[/QUOTE]
i don't believe in "right" or "wrong" when it comes to music appreciation. that is, i don't think you're wrong for not being moved by Brian's singing.
however, when thousands (millions?) of people are moved by something, and you're not, it might just be that you're missing something. the artist tries to convey an emotion, and it doesn't reach you... you may blame the artist, or you may just learn to enjoy. depending on whether you'd rather enjoy music or poke fun at the artist.
may i use myself as an example? poking fun at Bono and The Edge sems to me far more enjoyable than attempting to enjoy "With Or Without You". every girl i know seems to believe it's one of the most exquisite songs ever written. are they wrong or am i right? that's not the question. they're just seeing something i am unable to see.
i don't particularly care for Picasso either, but since so many people seem to think so highly of him... i might be missing out on something truly sensational.
on the other hand... it took me some effort to get into Bowie's music. and i sure don't regret it.
for the first time in my life, i hear someone claim that "there's as much emotion in Brian's voice as in a synthesized voice".
i salute you for your boldness, but when thousands of people are able to see something and you're not, do you still think they're wrong?
[/QUOTE]
Well I haven't said it's emotional, and I honestly can't remember anyone else praising him for it either... Are you sure that isn't just your wishful thinking?[/quote]
absolutely positive, Tero.
or that might just be another QOL/QZ difference.
[quote]I've personally always felt it was weak, monotonous and unexpressive, and Good Company is just one of the songs where that's apparent. Should I change my opinion because somebody else disagrees with it? Should I change it because a thousand other people disagree with it?
Maybe we should just have a poll (say 10,000 random people from around the world) to determine which opinion is more common, and therefore 'right'. Would either of us be happy to change our opinions after that and agree that others are 'right' and we are 'wrong'? :P[/QUOTE]
i don't believe in "right" or "wrong" when it comes to music appreciation. that is, i don't think you're wrong for not being moved by Brian's singing.
however, when thousands (millions?) of people are moved by something, and you're not, it might just be that you're missing something. the artist tries to convey an emotion, and it doesn't reach you... you may blame the artist, or you may just learn to enjoy. depending on whether you'd rather enjoy music or poke fun at the artist.
may i use myself as an example? poking fun at Bono and The Edge sems to me far more enjoyable than attempting to enjoy "With Or Without You". every girl i know seems to believe it's one of the most exquisite songs ever written. are they wrong or am i right? that's not the question. they're just seeing something i am unable to see.
i don't particularly care for Picasso either, but since so many people seem to think so highly of him... i might be missing out on something truly sensational.
on the other hand... it took me some effort to get into Bowie's music. and i sure don't regret it.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Tero wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zak Royen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]i suppose you meant "sad", not "whining". we're talking about AIDS and starvation, man. i mean i understand you're not supposed to enjoy sad songs about AIDS and starving children if you intend to be a toughie. you may say that Roger is "whining" like a baby if you like... but in that case, i'll have a hard time trusting your sensitivity as a barometer to assess the level of expression in "Good Company"!
[/QUOTE]
The topic might be serious (like hundreds of acoustic protests songs and folk songs have had before), but in this case even the physical (or should that be audible?) performance has a literally whining sound. That's just Roger's singing style which might suit some other songs, but not this one.[/QUOTE]
i'd say the singing is plaintive rather than whining... and the plaintive tone fits the topic.
[/QUOTE]
The topic might be serious (like hundreds of acoustic protests songs and folk songs have had before), but in this case even the physical (or should that be audible?) performance has a literally whining sound. That's just Roger's singing style which might suit some other songs, but not this one.[/QUOTE]
i'd say the singing is plaintive rather than whining... and the plaintive tone fits the topic.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zak Royen wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
i don't believe in "right" or "wrong" when it comes to music appreciation. that is, i don't think you're wrong for not being moved by Brian's singing.
however, when thousands (millions?) of people are moved by something, and you're not, it might just be that you're missing something. the artist tries to convey an emotion, and it doesn't reach you... you may blame the artist, or you may just learn to enjoy. depending on whether you'd rather enjoy music or poke fun at the artist.
may i use myself as an example? poking fun at Bono and The Edge sems to me far more enjoyable than attempting to enjoy "With Or Without You". every girl i know seems to believe it's one of the most exquisite songs ever written. are they wrong or am i right? that's not the question. they're just seeing something i am unable to see.
i don't particularly care for Picasso either, but since so many people seem to think so highly of him... i might be missing out on something truly sensational.
on the other hand... it took me some effort to get into Bowie's music. and i sure don't regret it.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe in 'right' or 'wrong' opinions any more than you, which is why I dared to express my opinion (and expand on my reasoning when you asked) in this topic. ;)
Music is a very subjective experience, and other people will experience feelings I won't, and vice versa. I don't expect anybody to "learn" to enjoy music they don't feel... I haven't "learned" to like Brian's singing in the past fifteen years, and I doubt I ever will. There are other artists who I've grown into liking (not "learned to enjoy", as that implies something that can be taught to others at will), so the fault doesn't lie entirely in me.
I also don't see anything wrong in poking a bit of humour out of personal dislikes (or likes). A normal reader will take a message like that with a pinch of salt, and not jump into a literal interpretation. That of course doesn't always work as people have different tastes in humour as well, and then there are the fanatics who will take personal offence at every negative thing you say no matter how insignificant it is...
It might also be interesting to note that I don't care much for Picasso. I know he's supposed to be a great artist, but I just can't see it myself. The only thing I've learned from his works (much like the singing of Brian) is that no matter how many people praise him, I just don't get the fascination at all. It isn't a case of missing anything, but only one of different tastes.
The only other thing I can learn from all these opinions is to estimate the parallels between our opinions on other similar issues. If someone enjoys the singing of Brian May, it's likely that in general he doesn't like the kind of music I do. ;)
i don't believe in "right" or "wrong" when it comes to music appreciation. that is, i don't think you're wrong for not being moved by Brian's singing.
however, when thousands (millions?) of people are moved by something, and you're not, it might just be that you're missing something. the artist tries to convey an emotion, and it doesn't reach you... you may blame the artist, or you may just learn to enjoy. depending on whether you'd rather enjoy music or poke fun at the artist.
may i use myself as an example? poking fun at Bono and The Edge sems to me far more enjoyable than attempting to enjoy "With Or Without You". every girl i know seems to believe it's one of the most exquisite songs ever written. are they wrong or am i right? that's not the question. they're just seeing something i am unable to see.
i don't particularly care for Picasso either, but since so many people seem to think so highly of him... i might be missing out on something truly sensational.
on the other hand... it took me some effort to get into Bowie's music. and i sure don't regret it.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe in 'right' or 'wrong' opinions any more than you, which is why I dared to express my opinion (and expand on my reasoning when you asked) in this topic. ;)
Music is a very subjective experience, and other people will experience feelings I won't, and vice versa. I don't expect anybody to "learn" to enjoy music they don't feel... I haven't "learned" to like Brian's singing in the past fifteen years, and I doubt I ever will. There are other artists who I've grown into liking (not "learned to enjoy", as that implies something that can be taught to others at will), so the fault doesn't lie entirely in me.
I also don't see anything wrong in poking a bit of humour out of personal dislikes (or likes). A normal reader will take a message like that with a pinch of salt, and not jump into a literal interpretation. That of course doesn't always work as people have different tastes in humour as well, and then there are the fanatics who will take personal offence at every negative thing you say no matter how insignificant it is...
It might also be interesting to note that I don't care much for Picasso. I know he's supposed to be a great artist, but I just can't see it myself. The only thing I've learned from his works (much like the singing of Brian) is that no matter how many people praise him, I just don't get the fascination at all. It isn't a case of missing anything, but only one of different tastes.
The only other thing I can learn from all these opinions is to estimate the parallels between our opinions on other similar issues. If someone enjoys the singing of Brian May, it's likely that in general he doesn't like the kind of music I do. ;)
A voice is just something you like or dislike. And being a Queenfan doesn't mean you have to love everything they did, love the bandmembers or think they're the best singer, players, songwriters of all time.
For example, I think Freddie had one of the most beautiful voices in modern music. But I certainly don't call him the best singer of all time. Not even in my top 10.
It's all just am atter or taste.
Someone may think Brian is the greatest guitarist of all time, because he could come up with wonderful melodious solo's which really complimented the song. And other people will think he wasn't really good because he couldn't play 25 notes a second.
It's all in the eye (or ear?) of the beholder
For example, I think Freddie had one of the most beautiful voices in modern music. But I certainly don't call him the best singer of all time. Not even in my top 10.
It's all just am atter or taste.
Someone may think Brian is the greatest guitarist of all time, because he could come up with wonderful melodious solo's which really complimented the song. And other people will think he wasn't really good because he couldn't play 25 notes a second.
It's all in the eye (or ear?) of the beholder
or behearer :-)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Tero wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
I don't believe in 'right' or 'wrong' opinions any more than you, which is why I dared to express my opinion (and expand on my reasoning when you asked) in this topic. ;)
Music is a very subjective experience, and other people will experience feelings I won't, and vice versa. I don't expect anybody to "learn" to enjoy music they don't feel... I haven't "learned" to like Brian's singing in the past fifteen years, and I doubt I ever will. There are other artists who I've grown into liking (not "learned to enjoy", as that implies something that can be taught to others at will), so the fault doesn't lie entirely in me.
I also don't see anything wrong in poking a bit of humour out of personal dislikes (or likes). A normal reader will take a message like that with a pinch of salt, and not jump into a literal interpretation. That of course doesn't always work as people have different tastes in humour as well, and then there are the fanatics who will take personal offence at every negative thing you say no matter how insignificant it is...
It might also be interesting to note that I don't care much for Picasso. I know he's supposed to be a great artist, but I just can't see it myself. The only thing I've learned from his works (much like the singing of Brian) is that no matter how many people praise him, I just don't get the fascination at all. It isn't a case of missing anything, but only one of different tastes.
The only other thing I can learn from all these opinions is to estimate the parallels between our opinions on other similar issues. If someone enjoys the singing of Brian May, it's likely that in general he doesn't like the kind of music I do. ;)[/QUOTE]
well, i STRONGLY believe one can learn to enjoy music. people can "sell" me their favorite artists. that's actually one of the main reasons why i read rock critics. sometimes they'll be able to "make me" enjoy a particular band which i wouldn't have (a) paid attention to, or (b) been able to enjoy without outside help.
of course you won't learn to "get" an artist without consenting to: no-one will be able to make me like U2 as long as i don't want to change my mind about U2 ;)
however, although i generally dislike being under influence, it's something i very much enjoy when it comes to music. i often ask my buddies if they can try and sell me some of their music. i even asked a good friend of mine to sell me "Genesis" -- not an easy task!
when some other fan feels good listening to "Thank God It's Christmas" while i just feel likke wincing... i guess i might be the one who's missing out on something!
anyway, i guess i might be that kind of crazy fanatic who doesn't laugh when someone pokes fun at one of his favorite artists.
I don't believe in 'right' or 'wrong' opinions any more than you, which is why I dared to express my opinion (and expand on my reasoning when you asked) in this topic. ;)
Music is a very subjective experience, and other people will experience feelings I won't, and vice versa. I don't expect anybody to "learn" to enjoy music they don't feel... I haven't "learned" to like Brian's singing in the past fifteen years, and I doubt I ever will. There are other artists who I've grown into liking (not "learned to enjoy", as that implies something that can be taught to others at will), so the fault doesn't lie entirely in me.
I also don't see anything wrong in poking a bit of humour out of personal dislikes (or likes). A normal reader will take a message like that with a pinch of salt, and not jump into a literal interpretation. That of course doesn't always work as people have different tastes in humour as well, and then there are the fanatics who will take personal offence at every negative thing you say no matter how insignificant it is...
It might also be interesting to note that I don't care much for Picasso. I know he's supposed to be a great artist, but I just can't see it myself. The only thing I've learned from his works (much like the singing of Brian) is that no matter how many people praise him, I just don't get the fascination at all. It isn't a case of missing anything, but only one of different tastes.
The only other thing I can learn from all these opinions is to estimate the parallels between our opinions on other similar issues. If someone enjoys the singing of Brian May, it's likely that in general he doesn't like the kind of music I do. ;)[/QUOTE]
well, i STRONGLY believe one can learn to enjoy music. people can "sell" me their favorite artists. that's actually one of the main reasons why i read rock critics. sometimes they'll be able to "make me" enjoy a particular band which i wouldn't have (a) paid attention to, or (b) been able to enjoy without outside help.
of course you won't learn to "get" an artist without consenting to: no-one will be able to make me like U2 as long as i don't want to change my mind about U2 ;)
however, although i generally dislike being under influence, it's something i very much enjoy when it comes to music. i often ask my buddies if they can try and sell me some of their music. i even asked a good friend of mine to sell me "Genesis" -- not an easy task!
when some other fan feels good listening to "Thank God It's Christmas" while i just feel likke wincing... i guess i might be the one who's missing out on something!
anyway, i guess i might be that kind of crazy fanatic who doesn't laugh when someone pokes fun at one of his favorite artists.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]A voice is just something you like or dislike. And being a Queenfan doesn't mean you have to love everything they did, love the bandmembers or think they're the best singer, players, songwriters of all time.
For example, I think Freddie had one of the most beautiful voices in modern music. But I certainly don't call him the best singer of all time. Not even in my top 10.
It's all just am atter or taste.
Someone may think Brian is the greatest guitarist of all time, because he could come up with wonderful melodious solo's which really complimented the song. And other people will think he wasn't really good because he couldn't play 25 notes a second.
It's all in the eye (or ear?) of the beholder[/QUOTE]
i never felt like anyone HAD TO like or dislike anything.
anyway, as strange as it may seem, i just consider that being a fan is a good opportunity... It's a good opportunity to hear in your idol's music the beauty that will escape "casual listeners".
for instance, i KNOW i wouldn't like "Drowse" today if i were not a Queen fan. to most people, it will mean that my love for the band is blinding me. but i don't think so. quite the opposite: my love for the band makes me extra-sensitive about Queen's music.
for a long time i hated "Drowse" . but the good fan must be patient, and i was... because i REALLY wanted to like the damn song.
eventually, it worked. i managed to see the beauty in that song. "Drowse" is a jewel. perhaps my favorite song off ADATR.
and the same is probably true for Good Company. i probably enjoy the song a hundred times more than any "normal person" (as Tero put it) would. and i guess that just makes me very lucky.
(actually, most of my friends who've seen me listen to Queen music think i'm very lucky.)
For example, I think Freddie had one of the most beautiful voices in modern music. But I certainly don't call him the best singer of all time. Not even in my top 10.
It's all just am atter or taste.
Someone may think Brian is the greatest guitarist of all time, because he could come up with wonderful melodious solo's which really complimented the song. And other people will think he wasn't really good because he couldn't play 25 notes a second.
It's all in the eye (or ear?) of the beholder[/QUOTE]
i never felt like anyone HAD TO like or dislike anything.
anyway, as strange as it may seem, i just consider that being a fan is a good opportunity... It's a good opportunity to hear in your idol's music the beauty that will escape "casual listeners".
for instance, i KNOW i wouldn't like "Drowse" today if i were not a Queen fan. to most people, it will mean that my love for the band is blinding me. but i don't think so. quite the opposite: my love for the band makes me extra-sensitive about Queen's music.
for a long time i hated "Drowse" . but the good fan must be patient, and i was... because i REALLY wanted to like the damn song.
eventually, it worked. i managed to see the beauty in that song. "Drowse" is a jewel. perhaps my favorite song off ADATR.
and the same is probably true for Good Company. i probably enjoy the song a hundred times more than any "normal person" (as Tero put it) would. and i guess that just makes me very lucky.
(actually, most of my friends who've seen me listen to Queen music think i'm very lucky.)
(i should proofread shouldn't i?)
Well, this is why queenzone works... this could have spiralled off into histrionics (which is also how as works sometimes), but instead, we get an alternate opinion and discussion.
I love the song.
Was it a long-overdue event? Yes.
Does that alone make it loveable? Not really.
It was a new song, specifically for the event, how about that? Probably not, praise for The Call, etc has been uneven.
Roger-fan-giddyness? Maybe, Roger's stuff has always been difficult to find, even though he's the most prolific of the solo artists.
I think all of these elements are nice suprises that boost a great song.
I love the song.
Was it a long-overdue event? Yes.
Does that alone make it loveable? Not really.
It was a new song, specifically for the event, how about that? Probably not, praise for The Call, etc has been uneven.
Roger-fan-giddyness? Maybe, Roger's stuff has always been difficult to find, even though he's the most prolific of the solo artists.
I think all of these elements are nice suprises that boost a great song.