[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Another Roger (re) wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Adam: "The moaning is real. My main example would be the MK Bowl release. Before this was released plenty of fans loved that gig and praised it as a great performance and gig in general. After the release, it's belittled on here. That's what this thread is probably pointing at - the sudden turn-arounds that seem to occur when QP try to do something"
Thats such a good example. Sometimes you get the feeling that some fans have illusions about concerts that are not released properly. The funny thing with human beings is that they tend to prefer the unseen stuff. I always loved alien 1 because we hardly got to see the alien. I got bored with 2,3 and 4 because you could see the aliens all the time. I think this can relate to the phenomona we deal with on the forum
Actually. I predict that there will be moaning when Earls Court or Houston get its release. They will probably complain about the picture that isnt as good as Montreal (ironic), and they will slag off Queen productions choice for extras. And some will complain about the bands performance, clothes or hair.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, there was moaning about On Fire At The Bowl... It has a stupid name and the extras could have been better.
Yes. Partly the problem is that we know know there could have been more extras. I can admit to that creating a problem, where one wouldn't otherwise exist. But there is a way for QP to remove that problem. ;)
So what's the solution QP has ended up with?
More stupidly titled dvds, and even less extras than before. Yeah, that's a great way to respond to the critics!
Fast forward 25 years to a date when the Houston/Earls Court double bill super-dvd is released... With a title "Queen+Paul Rodgers Rock Montreal At The Bowl, Via Houston and London With Freddie". What we'll have are direct copies of the 50 year-old video tapes, and the only extras will be a 15-minute "behind the scenes of We Will Rock You the musical in Bognor Regis". Brian is still advertising the stupendous extras in his website, and he sounds even more like the senile old man he's become.
Do we have a right to complain? Yes.
Does Queen Productions have a way to make the release of such quality that the three people left whining sound like complete twats? Yes.
Are they ever going to learn from their previous mistakes? Well, the jurys still out, but I think the opinions have been swaying towards a big fat no for the past decade.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Adam Baboolal wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Michael Allred wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Another Roger (re) wrote: [/QUOTENAME]"Also, I'm sure Rainbow '74 would sell very well"
I would indeed buy such a release. But its naive to think that it would sell well. People that just like Queen a little (the biggest group of buyers) look for We are the champions, We Will Rock You, Bohemian Rhapsody, A Kind of magic etc. They havent even heard of Ogre Battle or Father to Son.
[/QUOTE]
Was it naive to think "News of the World" would have sold well back in '77? Nobody heard of "We Will Rock You" back then either.
It's a lame argument that people only want certain songs. The casual fan won't keep buying the same thing over and over again for decades. They WILL tire of it and something *new* will be required to regain their attention.[/QUOTE]
No way. You're way off on this. Rainbow is not something that joe bloggs is going to be interested in - especially in this day and age.
News of the world was a sought after new album by a great band who previously released "that song" called Bohemian Rhapsody. Guaranteed publicity and sales by eager fans and people interested in their new music.
Adam.[/QUOTE]
I could use your argument against you Adam. Wouldn't it be just as easy for a Joe Bloggs to look at a new DVD of Rainbow and think "Oy, that the band that did that Rhapsody song ain't they?"
One way or another, Queen will run out of 80s shows to release on DVD.....*eventually* something from the 70s will have to come out. I might be old and gray by then but still....
I would indeed buy such a release. But its naive to think that it would sell well. People that just like Queen a little (the biggest group of buyers) look for We are the champions, We Will Rock You, Bohemian Rhapsody, A Kind of magic etc. They havent even heard of Ogre Battle or Father to Son.
[/QUOTE]
Was it naive to think "News of the World" would have sold well back in '77? Nobody heard of "We Will Rock You" back then either.
It's a lame argument that people only want certain songs. The casual fan won't keep buying the same thing over and over again for decades. They WILL tire of it and something *new* will be required to regain their attention.[/QUOTE]
No way. You're way off on this. Rainbow is not something that joe bloggs is going to be interested in - especially in this day and age.
News of the world was a sought after new album by a great band who previously released "that song" called Bohemian Rhapsody. Guaranteed publicity and sales by eager fans and people interested in their new music.
Adam.[/QUOTE]
I could use your argument against you Adam. Wouldn't it be just as easy for a Joe Bloggs to look at a new DVD of Rainbow and think "Oy, that the band that did that Rhapsody song ain't they?"
One way or another, Queen will run out of 80s shows to release on DVD.....*eventually* something from the 70s will have to come out. I might be old and gray by then but still....
Queenfans, the biggest moaners ever?
Perhaps a more positive spin would be 'Queen fans - the most discerning ever?
Perhaps a more positive spin would be 'Queen fans - the most discerning ever?
This thread is getting too long.
My back hurts today.
I need another Queen live DVD. The 32 bootlegs I have are simply not enough.
The Red Sox should have never traded Babe Ruth.
My back hurts today.
I need another Queen live DVD. The 32 bootlegs I have are simply not enough.
The Red Sox should have never traded Babe Ruth.
Agreed John. There's not much of a difference between "moaning" and "discerning."
And agreed also Michael, but releasing Rainbow or Earls Court would get Queen away from what they've become, which is a pop based business like the Spice Girls, or Madonna, designed to keep in people's ears and faces, rather than artists who care about their catlaogue and the good work they've done.
And agreed also Michael, but releasing Rainbow or Earls Court would get Queen away from what they've become, which is a pop based business like the Spice Girls, or Madonna, designed to keep in people's ears and faces, rather than artists who care about their catlaogue and the good work they've done.
Another Roger, re:
>>Actually. I predict that there will be moaning when Earls Court or Houston get its release. They will probably complain about the picture that isnt as good as Montreal (ironic), and they will slag off Queen productions choice for extras.
If it's not released in as good a quality as it *COULD BE*, then, surely, we'd have every right to raise our concerns.
All of your points are made and made well, however, you *CLEARLY* have no sense of discernment where product is concerned.
Let's put it in a much simpler way, shall we?
You want to purchase a newly built house after 3 years of trying to find one. You speak to the estate agent / builder and agree terms and a purchase price based on the fact that you know the house is available finally.
You move in.
After a day or so, you suddenly find small cracks in the walls, uneven floors and gaps between the window frames and the walls. You'd also been told by them that, as part of the deal, they'd put in a fully functional kitchen, microwave and washer-dryer, but when you try to use them, the oven isn't working, the microwave doesn't have a plug on it and the washing machine leaked all over the floor.
What do you do? Raise your concern with the estate agent and builder and demand that the issues are resolved or happily sit back in the knowledge that you have the house you wanted?
The point here is that just because something becomes available, the fact that you work hard to be able to afford it means that, as a consumer, you have a right to expect certain standards in whatever product it is you buy.
Queen product is no different to anything else and those people responsible for the quality of that product appear not to care about the demands of the *DISCERNING* consumer, hence my e-mails to Brian regarding the placement of JR on the CD of QRM and my lack of surprise that there is no answer forthcoming.
Perhaps they're trying to make something up that's plausible but are having a bit of trouble in doing so........
I don't know.
But, what I *DO* know is that for a brand like Queen that prides itself on the quality of product and the music it contains, since the band's cheif creative brain died, the brand has become severly tarnished through crass carelessness. The decision-makers have also set themselves on a pedestal whereby they will not be held to task *BY ANYONE*, least of all the people that buy product.
Zeppelin's mantra over the years has been that less is more where product is concerned. Sure, they could well have flooded the market and the demand would have still been there. But, I can guarantee that their show on December 10 wouldn't have been happening if Peter Grant had still been alive - there's no way he'd have sanctioned replacing John Bonham. As a result, when something does arrive, it's great quality - "How The West Was Won" was a great treat, the TSRTS DVD is fantastic and I'm sure the remastered TSRTS CD set will be as good when it arrives.
Jimmy Page appears to take care with what happens and oversees from start to finish. A shame, then, that no member's of Queen have their name anywhere in the credits other than having played.
My assumption is that Brian, Roger and John don't care enough to get involved, or, aren't *ALLOWED* to be involved.
>>And some will complain about the bands performance, clothes or hair.
That would be a pointless. You can only control the controllables. Is that something you'd take issue with?
>>Actually. I predict that there will be moaning when Earls Court or Houston get its release. They will probably complain about the picture that isnt as good as Montreal (ironic), and they will slag off Queen productions choice for extras.
If it's not released in as good a quality as it *COULD BE*, then, surely, we'd have every right to raise our concerns.
All of your points are made and made well, however, you *CLEARLY* have no sense of discernment where product is concerned.
Let's put it in a much simpler way, shall we?
You want to purchase a newly built house after 3 years of trying to find one. You speak to the estate agent / builder and agree terms and a purchase price based on the fact that you know the house is available finally.
You move in.
After a day or so, you suddenly find small cracks in the walls, uneven floors and gaps between the window frames and the walls. You'd also been told by them that, as part of the deal, they'd put in a fully functional kitchen, microwave and washer-dryer, but when you try to use them, the oven isn't working, the microwave doesn't have a plug on it and the washing machine leaked all over the floor.
What do you do? Raise your concern with the estate agent and builder and demand that the issues are resolved or happily sit back in the knowledge that you have the house you wanted?
The point here is that just because something becomes available, the fact that you work hard to be able to afford it means that, as a consumer, you have a right to expect certain standards in whatever product it is you buy.
Queen product is no different to anything else and those people responsible for the quality of that product appear not to care about the demands of the *DISCERNING* consumer, hence my e-mails to Brian regarding the placement of JR on the CD of QRM and my lack of surprise that there is no answer forthcoming.
Perhaps they're trying to make something up that's plausible but are having a bit of trouble in doing so........
I don't know.
But, what I *DO* know is that for a brand like Queen that prides itself on the quality of product and the music it contains, since the band's cheif creative brain died, the brand has become severly tarnished through crass carelessness. The decision-makers have also set themselves on a pedestal whereby they will not be held to task *BY ANYONE*, least of all the people that buy product.
Zeppelin's mantra over the years has been that less is more where product is concerned. Sure, they could well have flooded the market and the demand would have still been there. But, I can guarantee that their show on December 10 wouldn't have been happening if Peter Grant had still been alive - there's no way he'd have sanctioned replacing John Bonham. As a result, when something does arrive, it's great quality - "How The West Was Won" was a great treat, the TSRTS DVD is fantastic and I'm sure the remastered TSRTS CD set will be as good when it arrives.
Jimmy Page appears to take care with what happens and oversees from start to finish. A shame, then, that no member's of Queen have their name anywhere in the credits other than having played.
My assumption is that Brian, Roger and John don't care enough to get involved, or, aren't *ALLOWED* to be involved.
>>And some will complain about the bands performance, clothes or hair.
That would be a pointless. You can only control the controllables. Is that something you'd take issue with?
Alright Benn.
First of all. A house is something you order after various specifications. There are standards to follow, and they has to be followed. If those standards arent followed you have rights. To compare this with a dvd is totally out of place. When there is a dvd available you have two choices. You buy it, or you dont buy it. When you have bought the dvd you can probably regret the purchase and get your money back. But you cant demand that they change the contents. If every single customer had the power to change the contents there wouldnt be a dvd. Everybody will never be satisfied. Thats simply not how it works. And how a dvd is constructed has a to do with taste. Many customers are probably thrilled to have Live aid as bonus material. I have the Live Aid concert, so it doesnt attract me. But I dont complain.
And even though Earls court, or Hammersmith gets a dvdrelease it doesnt mean perfect picture quality! When are we going to learn that it depends on the source? They can fix the picture a little, but they can not do miracles.
First of all. A house is something you order after various specifications. There are standards to follow, and they has to be followed. If those standards arent followed you have rights. To compare this with a dvd is totally out of place. When there is a dvd available you have two choices. You buy it, or you dont buy it. When you have bought the dvd you can probably regret the purchase and get your money back. But you cant demand that they change the contents. If every single customer had the power to change the contents there wouldnt be a dvd. Everybody will never be satisfied. Thats simply not how it works. And how a dvd is constructed has a to do with taste. Many customers are probably thrilled to have Live aid as bonus material. I have the Live Aid concert, so it doesnt attract me. But I dont complain.
And even though Earls court, or Hammersmith gets a dvdrelease it doesnt mean perfect picture quality! When are we going to learn that it depends on the source? They can fix the picture a little, but they can not do miracles.
"I sometimes wonder (if The Prophet's Song would have been as popular as Bo Rhap were it the lead single from ANATO) this also. It was always so random which song got picked for the leading single from a Queen album. It bothered me sometimes. History can never be reversed ... certain things became ingrained in public consciousness and it will pretty much always be that way. That's why sometimes I wish the Greatest Hits would disappear for a while, and people would have more chance to get back into the original albums with an unprejudiced ear. Still, after GH 1 becoming the biggest album in History in the UK, I guess I ought not grumble!"
Brian May, Jan. 2007
And there's the conundrum. The casual fan will never hear the gems of Queen, which is something Brian would like to see happen. But how do you reconcile this with releasing an exclusive greatest hits album to a big box retailer just a few months after this? You can't have it both ways! Queen wants the safe money, no risks involved. That's fine, but when you get skewered for being a pop singles act you can't complain about your catalogue geting ignored, as Brian and Roger both have. As Benn states, Peter Grant looked after Zep's legacy much, much, much better than Jim Beach did with Queen. Jim Beach has done a much, much, much better job of moving product than the Zeppelin management. In November 2007, perhaps the event of the year from a classic rock POV is the digital release of the Led Zeppelin catalogue. For Queen fans, it'll be the inclusion of "One Year of Love" as Track 1 on the Christmas release "Songs to drink Hot Chocolate with." Zep gets the credibility, Queen gets the sales.
Brian May, Jan. 2007
And there's the conundrum. The casual fan will never hear the gems of Queen, which is something Brian would like to see happen. But how do you reconcile this with releasing an exclusive greatest hits album to a big box retailer just a few months after this? You can't have it both ways! Queen wants the safe money, no risks involved. That's fine, but when you get skewered for being a pop singles act you can't complain about your catalogue geting ignored, as Brian and Roger both have. As Benn states, Peter Grant looked after Zep's legacy much, much, much better than Jim Beach did with Queen. Jim Beach has done a much, much, much better job of moving product than the Zeppelin management. In November 2007, perhaps the event of the year from a classic rock POV is the digital release of the Led Zeppelin catalogue. For Queen fans, it'll be the inclusion of "One Year of Love" as Track 1 on the Christmas release "Songs to drink Hot Chocolate with." Zep gets the credibility, Queen gets the sales.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Boy Thomas Raker wrote: [/QUOTENAME]For Queen fans, it'll be the inclusion of "One Year of Love" as Track 1 on the Christmas release "Songs to drink Hot Chocolate with." Zep gets the credibility, Queen gets the sales. [/QUOTE]
When is that coming out?
When is that coming out?
Another Roger:
OK - here we go again.
>>If those standards arent followed you have rights. To compare this with a dvd is totally out of place.
It's not totally out of place.
The scenario was used in order for you to have something to compare where I'm coming from in trying to get you (and the many others like you) to understand that not everything released under the Queen banner is acceptable. I'd guess that you fall into the category of people that believe OIQFC has always filled the gap between band and audience. Hmm....
>>When there is a dvd available you have two choices. You buy it, or you dont buy it.
Correct, just as you do in the above scenario.
>>When you have bought the dvd you can probably regret the purchase and get your money back.
Not entirely certain that a shop will take your DVD back after you've opened the package, put your fingers on the "offending" side and just decided you don't like it. Not certain that you can do that with a house either - "I don't like this house, I want my money back please." Perhaps I should take this up with a lawyer friend and see whare you'd stand.......
>>But you cant demand that they change the contents.
I haven't demanded anything of the sort. I (and others of a similar mind) merely suggest ways that the CD and / or DVD could be improved upon. If Eagle Vision and / or QPL decide that "OUR" case if of sufficient merit, they may decide to recall the products and re-issue it in a *BETTER* fashion. On past experience, I have no doubts at all that we'll be ignored, but you can't always make the deaf hear, can you?
This self same thing happened with Polydor and their tratment of The Who's "A Quick One" remaster - they erroneously used inferior mono master tapes to re-issue the disc on CD and, after much persuasion and no little hassle, they managed to "find" the well-known stereo masters which were lodged with Polydor in Germany and issued a full stereo re-master. I even offered to have the tapes shipped to the UK FOC when I worked for TNT; after 3 years, they finally saw the light of day; sadly they didn't deem it necessary to issue the re-re-master with a new catalogue number, so it's almost impossible to identify between the original and the newer. Same with their re-master of the "Face Dances" album. It was put to Polydor that there was a clear mastering error on the bonus track "It's In You" that is not present on any bootleg version of the track. Polydor almost instantly withdrew the re-master and re-issued it fixed.
Just goes to show that a sympathetic record company will listen if they have the right mind.
It can be done.
>>If every single customer had the power to change the contents there wouldnt be a dvd.
Then the people issueing the material would HAVE to sit up and listen.
People like you that simply accept what's in front of them will never make a difference.
>>Everybody will never be satisfied.
Correct.
>>Thats simply not how it works.
It's not, but you go ahead there......
>>And how a dvd is constructed has a to do with taste.
And, clearly, those in charge of quality control simply don't have any, so they?
>>Many customers are probably thrilled to have Live aid as bonus material. I have the Live Aid concert, so it doesnt attract me. But I dont complain.
You can buy the DVD without the Live Aid material as a bonus you know? Perhaps you should give that one a go and see for yourself.
OK - here we go again.
>>If those standards arent followed you have rights. To compare this with a dvd is totally out of place.
It's not totally out of place.
The scenario was used in order for you to have something to compare where I'm coming from in trying to get you (and the many others like you) to understand that not everything released under the Queen banner is acceptable. I'd guess that you fall into the category of people that believe OIQFC has always filled the gap between band and audience. Hmm....
>>When there is a dvd available you have two choices. You buy it, or you dont buy it.
Correct, just as you do in the above scenario.
>>When you have bought the dvd you can probably regret the purchase and get your money back.
Not entirely certain that a shop will take your DVD back after you've opened the package, put your fingers on the "offending" side and just decided you don't like it. Not certain that you can do that with a house either - "I don't like this house, I want my money back please." Perhaps I should take this up with a lawyer friend and see whare you'd stand.......
>>But you cant demand that they change the contents.
I haven't demanded anything of the sort. I (and others of a similar mind) merely suggest ways that the CD and / or DVD could be improved upon. If Eagle Vision and / or QPL decide that "OUR" case if of sufficient merit, they may decide to recall the products and re-issue it in a *BETTER* fashion. On past experience, I have no doubts at all that we'll be ignored, but you can't always make the deaf hear, can you?
This self same thing happened with Polydor and their tratment of The Who's "A Quick One" remaster - they erroneously used inferior mono master tapes to re-issue the disc on CD and, after much persuasion and no little hassle, they managed to "find" the well-known stereo masters which were lodged with Polydor in Germany and issued a full stereo re-master. I even offered to have the tapes shipped to the UK FOC when I worked for TNT; after 3 years, they finally saw the light of day; sadly they didn't deem it necessary to issue the re-re-master with a new catalogue number, so it's almost impossible to identify between the original and the newer. Same with their re-master of the "Face Dances" album. It was put to Polydor that there was a clear mastering error on the bonus track "It's In You" that is not present on any bootleg version of the track. Polydor almost instantly withdrew the re-master and re-issued it fixed.
Just goes to show that a sympathetic record company will listen if they have the right mind.
It can be done.
>>If every single customer had the power to change the contents there wouldnt be a dvd.
Then the people issueing the material would HAVE to sit up and listen.
People like you that simply accept what's in front of them will never make a difference.
>>Everybody will never be satisfied.
Correct.
>>Thats simply not how it works.
It's not, but you go ahead there......
>>And how a dvd is constructed has a to do with taste.
And, clearly, those in charge of quality control simply don't have any, so they?
>>Many customers are probably thrilled to have Live aid as bonus material. I have the Live Aid concert, so it doesnt attract me. But I dont complain.
You can buy the DVD without the Live Aid material as a bonus you know? Perhaps you should give that one a go and see for yourself.
Boy Thomas Raker, re:
>>Jim Beach has done a much, much, much better job of moving product than the Zeppelin management.
But that's just it. Led Zeppelin haven't needed to shift "product" in the same way that Queen do - it simply sells itself. The three surviving members of Zep have managed all this time with only 2 releases of *NEW* product in over 25 years. Queen keep trotting out the same old shit under various guises for the sake of a few quid. The trick is to keep demand at such a furious level and the product "SO" good that no one is left in any doubt.
>>In November 2007, perhaps the event of the year from a classic rock POV is the digital release of the Led Zeppelin catalogue.
I'm not even certain that Peter Grant would have let that happen - there's too much leeway given to the distribution of the music that, in essence, is not in the control of the band or its management; the songs can be downloaded and then pirated afterwards.......
>>For Queen fans, it'll be the inclusion of "One Year of Love" as Track 1 on the Christmas release "Songs to drink Hot Chocolate with."
Ha ha - that's pretty good!
>>Zep gets the credibility, Queen gets the sales.
Spot on. Queen will always remain a bit of a circus act amongst serious music listeners. And we, as Queen fans, will remain the butt of their jibes.
>>Jim Beach has done a much, much, much better job of moving product than the Zeppelin management.
But that's just it. Led Zeppelin haven't needed to shift "product" in the same way that Queen do - it simply sells itself. The three surviving members of Zep have managed all this time with only 2 releases of *NEW* product in over 25 years. Queen keep trotting out the same old shit under various guises for the sake of a few quid. The trick is to keep demand at such a furious level and the product "SO" good that no one is left in any doubt.
>>In November 2007, perhaps the event of the year from a classic rock POV is the digital release of the Led Zeppelin catalogue.
I'm not even certain that Peter Grant would have let that happen - there's too much leeway given to the distribution of the music that, in essence, is not in the control of the band or its management; the songs can be downloaded and then pirated afterwards.......
>>For Queen fans, it'll be the inclusion of "One Year of Love" as Track 1 on the Christmas release "Songs to drink Hot Chocolate with."
Ha ha - that's pretty good!
>>Zep gets the credibility, Queen gets the sales.
Spot on. Queen will always remain a bit of a circus act amongst serious music listeners. And we, as Queen fans, will remain the butt of their jibes.
Yes, Benn, I meant Jim Beach has done a "better" job in the sense that if he wants mass market penetration, he got it. Zep never wanted it, and while I agree with your thoughts on the digital release, I was pointing more to the fact that we're now at least 7 to 10 years into mass mp3 acceptance before Zep did anything, and it's a big deal because of the care they've taken with their catalogue (Puff Daddy nonsense excepted!)
"You can buy the DVD without the Live Aid material as a bonus you know? Perhaps you should give that one a go and see for yourself"
Hehe. I am only getting the blue-ray version mate. I dont know if there are bonuses on it, but I assume there are not
Hehe. I am only getting the blue-ray version mate. I dont know if there are bonuses on it, but I assume there are not
Another Roger,
BlueRay eh? That's VERY advanced. Can you do us a favour and post a review of the BlueRay version when you get it? But then again, as you'll have nothing to compare it with (unless you're going to A/B with the VHS), there's not a lot of point.
I *KNOW* you'll think it's the very best thing you've ever purchased under the Queen banner.
Enjoy it.
BlueRay eh? That's VERY advanced. Can you do us a favour and post a review of the BlueRay version when you get it? But then again, as you'll have nothing to compare it with (unless you're going to A/B with the VHS), there's not a lot of point.
I *KNOW* you'll think it's the very best thing you've ever purchased under the Queen banner.
Enjoy it.
"BlueRay eh? That's VERY advanced. Can you do us a favour and post a review of the BlueRay version when you get it? But then again, as you'll have nothing to compare it with (unless you're going to A/B with the VHS), there's not a lot of point."
How can you conclude without knowing me at all? I do in fact own the We Will Rock you VHS, We Will Rock You DVD (pioneer), and the second edition of We Will Rock you dvd. You can call me stupid for buying all those. But saying that I cant compare is very arrogant.
How can you conclude without knowing me at all? I do in fact own the We Will Rock you VHS, We Will Rock You DVD (pioneer), and the second edition of We Will Rock you dvd. You can call me stupid for buying all those. But saying that I cant compare is very arrogant.