It seems most people, including Queen point to these events as the main factors in the decline of Queen's success during the 80s in America. But let's look at the facts:
"Body Language" which some may say is the worst of the Hot Space funk tracks was actually a big hit in America, peaking at #11 on the Billboard charts whilst the now-classic "Under Pressure" had peaked at only 29. America was sick of 'disco' and Hot Space killed Queen? Clearly not.
"Radio Ga Ga" managed a respectable peak at #16, perhaps aided by the video and the time-tested Queen success machine. But even 'Break Free' made it to 45.. nearly a top 40 hit, with very little video play due to this apparent controversy over the cross-dressing.
I personally think this shows that Queen could have recovered from any problems that video may have caused, had they been handled properly. I was a teenager during these years and really only a casual fan of Queen.. I always liked the stuff I was able to hear, but I didn't hear much over the next few years. One Vision, I Want it All.. that's about all I remember until Innuendo.
So I wonder if maybe the story of Queen not being happy with their handling at Capitol is true and is more the reason why they didn't do better. Perhaps the perceived funk/electronic shift brought on by Hot Space contributed, as well as that silly drag video, but I honestly think something like lack of promotion is most likely what did the most harm.
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What killed Queen in America is them not touring. Bottomline. Freddie's insecurity because he thought hot space was such a failure (even though in hind sight it wasn't that big of one compared to the subsequent albums exceppt for maybe...no even including Innuendo) Freddie was fearful of playing smaller venues or not to sell out crowds in the states and thats what hurt them. He should've remembered that them motherfuckers where live killers and a tour would've won over the hardest hearted spectator which wouldve drove atleast a few hundred at every concert to go cjeck out the album which wouldve drove up sells. It was bad business sense not to tour.
Queen played to packed halls in 1980 but the attendance in 1982 was much lower, no wonder they decided not to tour in the USA anymore.
Also I never understood how "not touring" can affect sales or popularity. Queen have never played in many countries (mine included), they never got any press coverage and yet are one of the most popular bands in the history. People always find the real quality ;-)
IMO it was Hot Space that killed Queen in America.
Also I never understood how "not touring" can affect sales or popularity. Queen have never played in many countries (mine included), they never got any press coverage and yet are one of the most popular bands in the history. People always find the real quality ;-)
IMO it was Hot Space that killed Queen in America.
First of all, I don't think a single cause can be drawn for these things. They result from a combination of factors, most likely many 'little' ones instead of one or two 'big' causes.
Second of all, having one single peaking at #11 doesn't mean the public liked the entire album or that they agreed with that style of music in its entirety. 'The Ketchup Song' was #1 in the UK (something neither 'We Are the Champions' nor the original 'Somebody to Love' could achieve), and it was double platinum, but it doesn't mean people'd be equally thrilled about the album, or that a tour would be sold out. What's more, let's see which song is best remembered now (only 5 years after 'Ketchup'), between that one and 'Champions' (which is 30 years old). So, instant sales not always guarantee being at the top, and viceversa.
Third of all, I don't think Queen ever got "killed" in America. Their 70's albums and singles and 'The Game' sold much more than their 80's ones simply because the former were much much much better (and in this case it was proportional to chart positions). But Queen remained a popular band in the US, even if not at the same level as Led Zeppelin.
Second of all, having one single peaking at #11 doesn't mean the public liked the entire album or that they agreed with that style of music in its entirety. 'The Ketchup Song' was #1 in the UK (something neither 'We Are the Champions' nor the original 'Somebody to Love' could achieve), and it was double platinum, but it doesn't mean people'd be equally thrilled about the album, or that a tour would be sold out. What's more, let's see which song is best remembered now (only 5 years after 'Ketchup'), between that one and 'Champions' (which is 30 years old). So, instant sales not always guarantee being at the top, and viceversa.
Third of all, I don't think Queen ever got "killed" in America. Their 70's albums and singles and 'The Game' sold much more than their 80's ones simply because the former were much much much better (and in this case it was proportional to chart positions). But Queen remained a popular band in the US, even if not at the same level as Led Zeppelin.
Having been a Queen fan since 1975 in America, my point of view is that Queen started its slide in popularity with the Game and AOBTD. Although the Game was their biggest selling album, it sold to a completely different audience and it was the beginning of the turning off of the Hard Rock audience that they had developed. Disco filled dance floors, didn't sell out stadiums. With their turn away from hard rock, and Freddie's move from adrogeny, which homophobic America could tolerate, to looking like one of the Village People, they alienated their core.
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rschoorl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Having been a Queen fan since 1975 in America, my point of view is that Queen started its slide in popularity with the Game and AOBTD. Although the Game was their biggest selling album, it sold to a completely different audience and it was the beginning of the turning off of the Hard Rock audience that they had developed. Disco filled dance floors, didn't sell out stadiums. With their turn away from hard rock, and Freddie's move from adrogeny, which homophobic America could tolerate, to looking like one of the Village People, they alienated their core.
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting. Interesting post from a long term fan!
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting. Interesting post from a long term fan!
Brian points to a lot of things--lack of payola with Capitol Records, the IWTBF video. One bum album does not a ruined career make--ask Neil Young (Trans anyone?), Styx (Kilroy Was Were), Kiss (The Elder). It's almost a rite of passage for great bands who stick around after the first decade of success.
More and more it has to be about not touring the States.
More and more it has to be about not touring the States.
I've always agreed that Hot Space killed them here. Barring the Body Language single going to #11 here the album didn't do nothing and did much damage in ruining Queen's reputation here and alienating their hard rock audience here. As far as the Break Free video that was just icing on the cake....
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Ducksoup wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rschoorl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Having been a Queen fan since 1975 in America, my point of view is that Queen started its slide in popularity with the Game and AOBTD. Although the Game was their biggest selling album, it sold to a completely different audience and it was the beginning of the turning off of the Hard Rock audience that they had developed. Disco filled dance floors, didn't sell out stadiums. With their turn away from hard rock, and Freddie's move from adrogeny, which homophobic America could tolerate, to looking like one of the Village People, they alienated their core.
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting. Interesting post from a long term fan![/QUOTE]
Excellent post. Queen weren't as relevant, and in North America, more the US than Canada, they want their rockers to rock. From CLTCL to IWTBF, Queen had a slew of singles where Brian was virtually out of the band, and the drums and bass sounded programmed. People over here saw Queen as abandoning their hard rock roots, and they lost their core fans, plain and simple. The Game brought them huge casual fans who loved the singles, some of them may have bought Body language, but then bailed. When Radio Ga Ga came out it had been roughly 5 years from Jazz, which was the last real classic Queen album. Finally, for the people who use the IWTBF video as THE reason Queen lost the US. The Stones, Bowie, and a few other big acts had done the drag thing well before, and U2 did it 8 years later for One. Why didn't those bands lose their followings for doing drag? And wasn't this time of Culture Club and Dead or Alive? Androgyny was huge. If I recall, Queen had their biggest success when their front man drank champagne, wore ballet tights and slippers that virtually scrrreeeeaaammmmeedddd out "I. AM. GAY." But that guy in the ballet slippers destroyed every live show he did, rocked hard, and had a band that just killed and were as heavy live as Zeppelin or Aerosmith. They changed too much musically for American tastes and lost their audience. No other story, move on now.
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting. Interesting post from a long term fan![/QUOTE]
Excellent post. Queen weren't as relevant, and in North America, more the US than Canada, they want their rockers to rock. From CLTCL to IWTBF, Queen had a slew of singles where Brian was virtually out of the band, and the drums and bass sounded programmed. People over here saw Queen as abandoning their hard rock roots, and they lost their core fans, plain and simple. The Game brought them huge casual fans who loved the singles, some of them may have bought Body language, but then bailed. When Radio Ga Ga came out it had been roughly 5 years from Jazz, which was the last real classic Queen album. Finally, for the people who use the IWTBF video as THE reason Queen lost the US. The Stones, Bowie, and a few other big acts had done the drag thing well before, and U2 did it 8 years later for One. Why didn't those bands lose their followings for doing drag? And wasn't this time of Culture Club and Dead or Alive? Androgyny was huge. If I recall, Queen had their biggest success when their front man drank champagne, wore ballet tights and slippers that virtually scrrreeeeaaammmmeedddd out "I. AM. GAY." But that guy in the ballet slippers destroyed every live show he did, rocked hard, and had a band that just killed and were as heavy live as Zeppelin or Aerosmith. They changed too much musically for American tastes and lost their audience. No other story, move on now.
New Wave was very popular in the US in the 80's..and maybe since Queen refused (thank God) to change thier sound to that extreme it hurt them in the long run.
And of course Hot Space and not touring after '82 didnt help either.
And of course Hot Space and not touring after '82 didnt help either.
The inherant homophobia of the wider public in the USA in the early to mid 1980's was directly responsible. White collar America was still in denial that people exisisted who didn't share their same sexual tastes.
Freddie was openly gay and the conservative suits at EMI / Capitol took the decision that they could not been seen to be overly promoting a band with a frontman as overtly contoroversial a Freddie. So they simply didn't push them on the all-important FM radio networks. There was also a conscious effort at the time to get American Rock bands back on the charts after decades of domination by British bands.
The markets in both Japan, Europe and South America were far more liberated than the USA and the success Queen had in those territories meant that, financially, they weren't overly affected by the fall off in the USA.
Freddie was openly gay and the conservative suits at EMI / Capitol took the decision that they could not been seen to be overly promoting a band with a frontman as overtly contoroversial a Freddie. So they simply didn't push them on the all-important FM radio networks. There was also a conscious effort at the time to get American Rock bands back on the charts after decades of domination by British bands.
The markets in both Japan, Europe and South America were far more liberated than the USA and the success Queen had in those territories meant that, financially, they weren't overly affected by the fall off in the USA.
Queen chose the wrong singles as a lot of people have mentioned their singles were more poppy.
I don't know why things like Put Out The Fire and Tear It Up weren't released as singles.
I don't know why things like Put Out The Fire and Tear It Up weren't released as singles.
Other than the Village People/"clone loo" mustache, I don't know how Freddie became more androgynous-looking. He had been wearing ballet tights and shiny leather outfits for years before then.
Bands have fallow periods. It's just the way it is. They had a fallow period in England, too, around this time, lest we forget; relative to their success there, of course.
And after fallow periods comes come-backs, one that Queen did not do for the four active years after their last tour.
So I put in my vote for not touring as well as what everyone says, which is the US hard rock/heavy metal audience being particularly masculine around this time (1983-1989).
Bands have fallow periods. It's just the way it is. They had a fallow period in England, too, around this time, lest we forget; relative to their success there, of course.
And after fallow periods comes come-backs, one that Queen did not do for the four active years after their last tour.
So I put in my vote for not touring as well as what everyone says, which is the US hard rock/heavy metal audience being particularly masculine around this time (1983-1989).
QUEEN are still huge here in America guys!!
I should know!!
I live in Houston, Tx.. and everytime I put the radio on, it's one of the Queen songs playing, contest giveways, etc ....
commercials, TV shows, "Special events" LIKE recently the Thanksgiving parade had a float with the song you're my best friend, etc, I can go on n on...... another example, about 2 months ago, I went to go buy some more Queen albums, bought one, but wanted other copies of the 2 other ones sheer heart attack and INNUENDO, didn't have enough money, came back a week later, and they were GONE man!! :( I couldn't believe it.
anyway, that's just the tip of it all.
I always hear and/or see Queen somewhere, some place here! .....
all my friends LOVE Queen, all they can say is great stuff, and they are not EASY, if you know what Im saying ha :P;)
k, gotta go, just wanna say those bits.
They just need to tour here MORE next year!!!!! :)
stay safe! xxoo
I should know!!
I live in Houston, Tx.. and everytime I put the radio on, it's one of the Queen songs playing, contest giveways, etc ....
commercials, TV shows, "Special events" LIKE recently the Thanksgiving parade had a float with the song you're my best friend, etc, I can go on n on...... another example, about 2 months ago, I went to go buy some more Queen albums, bought one, but wanted other copies of the 2 other ones sheer heart attack and INNUENDO, didn't have enough money, came back a week later, and they were GONE man!! :( I couldn't believe it.
anyway, that's just the tip of it all.
I always hear and/or see Queen somewhere, some place here! .....
all my friends LOVE Queen, all they can say is great stuff, and they are not EASY, if you know what Im saying ha :P;)
k, gotta go, just wanna say those bits.
They just need to tour here MORE next year!!!!! :)
stay safe! xxoo
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]rschoorl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Having been a Queen fan since 1975 in America, my point of view is that Queen started its slide in popularity with the Game and AOBTD. Although the Game was their biggest selling album, it sold to a completely different audience and it was the beginning of the turning off of the Hard Rock audience that they had developed. Disco filled dance floors, didn't sell out stadiums. With their turn away from hard rock, and Freddie's move from adrogeny, which homophobic America could tolerate, to looking like one of the Village People, they alienated their core.
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.[/QUOTE]
Spot on post. Many feel, including Brian, that the IWTBF video put off Americans, but what they don't realize is that most Americans never saw that video at the time. MTV and cable were young, and those of us that were there know that Queen was declining fast in popularity before that vid.
Here's my take, as a fan in the US through those years:
1975-1979: America Loves Queen! Great and Unique Rock Band! Yahoo!
1980: Rockabilly and Disco singles - WTF? Oh well, it's just a phase.
1980: FLASH! AAAH AAAH! Synthesizer orgy! Are these guys serious with this shit? WTF? This is so bad, it's funny.
1981: Greatest Hits! Well, I've already got those songs. I'll pass. Hmmm, nothing decent from this band in a couple of years now. WTF?
1982: Queen goes disco! WTF? Bad, bad move considering that disco died three years ago. Just embarrassing to listen to it was so outdated.
1984: A new Queen album! Last chance, boys after almost five years of terrible decisions. Maybe they've come through this time! The new single is "Radio Ga Ga, Radio Goo Goo"? Hahahaha! WTF? I'm moving on...
1986: Queen released something? Those guys are still around? Whatever...
Of course I'm a fan, and I followed them and bought the stuff, but this basically what I saw going on around me.
I have never heard anyone point to the "Break Free" video as the moment that turned America. By the Works, Queen was already much less relevent here. IMO the video didn't do much damage, it was already after most of the damage had been done.[/QUOTE]
Spot on post. Many feel, including Brian, that the IWTBF video put off Americans, but what they don't realize is that most Americans never saw that video at the time. MTV and cable were young, and those of us that were there know that Queen was declining fast in popularity before that vid.
Here's my take, as a fan in the US through those years:
1975-1979: America Loves Queen! Great and Unique Rock Band! Yahoo!
1980: Rockabilly and Disco singles - WTF? Oh well, it's just a phase.
1980: FLASH! AAAH AAAH! Synthesizer orgy! Are these guys serious with this shit? WTF? This is so bad, it's funny.
1981: Greatest Hits! Well, I've already got those songs. I'll pass. Hmmm, nothing decent from this band in a couple of years now. WTF?
1982: Queen goes disco! WTF? Bad, bad move considering that disco died three years ago. Just embarrassing to listen to it was so outdated.
1984: A new Queen album! Last chance, boys after almost five years of terrible decisions. Maybe they've come through this time! The new single is "Radio Ga Ga, Radio Goo Goo"? Hahahaha! WTF? I'm moving on...
1986: Queen released something? Those guys are still around? Whatever...
Of course I'm a fan, and I followed them and bought the stuff, but this basically what I saw going on around me.