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[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
No way, pie analogy wins. Check this -
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
It's a massive apple pie. But like, Freddie is the apple goopy stuff in the middle, and the other guys are the pastry. Freddie is the most popular and appreciated bit, but without the pastry he's totally inconvenient and difficult to eat.
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Of course without Freddie in the middle, the other guys are just a tasty (yet mostly bland) pastry.
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[img=/images/smiley/msn/teeth_smile.gif][/img]
You must be a cook!
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Nah I'm just a master eater.
Although I prefer the term 'food poet'
I like a cake analogy better: mostly because I don't like apple pie. I like the pie crust much better than the goopiness!
Freddie's the icing on the cake: he tastes sorta good by himself, but he's a bit too sweet. He needs to be balanced out by the moist, warm, fluffiness of the other three. Brian's the chocolate, Roger's the angel-food-cake sprinkles, and Deacy's the writing on the top!
Queen and cake: 2 of the best things ever! (Crap, now I'm hungry....)
Freddie's the icing on the cake: he tastes sorta good by himself, but he's a bit too sweet. He needs to be balanced out by the moist, warm, fluffiness of the other three. Brian's the chocolate, Roger's the angel-food-cake sprinkles, and Deacy's the writing on the top!
Queen and cake: 2 of the best things ever! (Crap, now I'm hungry....)
[QUOTE]
[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
No way, pie analogy wins. Check this -It's a massive apple pie. But like, Freddie is the apple goopy stuff
in the middle, and the other guys are the pastry. Freddie is the most popular and appreciated bit, but without the pastry he's totally inconvenient and difficult to eat.
[/QUOTE]
Mr. Bad Pie!
[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
No way, pie analogy wins. Check this -It's a massive apple pie. But like, Freddie is the apple goopy stuff
in the middle, and the other guys are the pastry. Freddie is the most popular and appreciated bit, but without the pastry he's totally inconvenient and difficult to eat.
[/QUOTE]
Mr. Bad Pie!
Let them eat cake, she said!
[QUOTE]
[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
I dunno. They got further without Freddie than Freddie got without them. In their case, he was the missing link - in Freddie's case, the other guys were the counterbalance.
Without Freddie they'd have been a well orchestrated but mostly average rock band, with a few innovative guitar sounds.
There is no guarantee that Freddie would've gotten anywhere on his own. The first two or three albums are what made those guys as writers and players. Who is to say what would've become of Freddie without that experience?
It's pretty likely that Freddie contributed more to the mission statement of the band than any other member did, but musically (and this is all about the music in my opinion) none of them would've ever been on Top of the Pops without each other.
The proof is in what happened when they were left to their own devices. Brian and Roger made some interesting solo music (actually I love Resurrection, but that's another topic). Q+PR were decidedly average.
And Freddie?? Do I even need to mention "Let's Turn it On"?? Sussudio part 2 on line one, folks ....
I'd rather have a full Queen than Freddie!
[/QUOTE]
But, you see, Let's Turn it On was an average song of the mid 80's, when everybody was doing that kind of shit. Poor arrangements, few keyboards, drum machines... I mean, it fits perfectly its moment.
But, you see... let's just see what Freddie did on the first albums:
My Fairy King. Much much much much more than the other three could do, combined. The bass lines and the drum parts could have been played by any other session musician, not hard at all. The guitar arrangement is great but it's not that important... I mean, you take out the guitar lines and you still have the song.
Liar is guitar oriented but it's mostly rhythm... I mean, except the solo which we don't know if it's Brian's or Freddie's... anyone could play the chords (except Jimmy Page, of course), which where OBVIOUSLY written by Freddie. You take out the solo... you still have the song. The solo is just a bridge between one section and another.
Great King Rat has great guitar lines, it would SO not be the same without Brian.
The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke. Freddie could have done without the rest. No doubts.
Killer Queen, We are the Champions, Bohemian Rhapsody, Somebody to Love... the guitar has MOMENTS in the songs, but it's not that important.
And those were the songs that really made it for Queen.
Where would Brian May be without Freddie's songs? Nowhere.
Where would Freddie be without Brian's solos? Probably not in the same place but fuck, he had 95% of the idea already worked out, that's much more than enough.[/QUOTE]
[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
I dunno. They got further without Freddie than Freddie got without them. In their case, he was the missing link - in Freddie's case, the other guys were the counterbalance.
Without Freddie they'd have been a well orchestrated but mostly average rock band, with a few innovative guitar sounds.
There is no guarantee that Freddie would've gotten anywhere on his own. The first two or three albums are what made those guys as writers and players. Who is to say what would've become of Freddie without that experience?
It's pretty likely that Freddie contributed more to the mission statement of the band than any other member did, but musically (and this is all about the music in my opinion) none of them would've ever been on Top of the Pops without each other.
The proof is in what happened when they were left to their own devices. Brian and Roger made some interesting solo music (actually I love Resurrection, but that's another topic). Q+PR were decidedly average.
And Freddie?? Do I even need to mention "Let's Turn it On"?? Sussudio part 2 on line one, folks ....
I'd rather have a full Queen than Freddie!
[/QUOTE]
But, you see, Let's Turn it On was an average song of the mid 80's, when everybody was doing that kind of shit. Poor arrangements, few keyboards, drum machines... I mean, it fits perfectly its moment.
But, you see... let's just see what Freddie did on the first albums:
My Fairy King. Much much much much more than the other three could do, combined. The bass lines and the drum parts could have been played by any other session musician, not hard at all. The guitar arrangement is great but it's not that important... I mean, you take out the guitar lines and you still have the song.
Liar is guitar oriented but it's mostly rhythm... I mean, except the solo which we don't know if it's Brian's or Freddie's... anyone could play the chords (except Jimmy Page, of course), which where OBVIOUSLY written by Freddie. You take out the solo... you still have the song. The solo is just a bridge between one section and another.
Great King Rat has great guitar lines, it would SO not be the same without Brian.
The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke. Freddie could have done without the rest. No doubts.
Killer Queen, We are the Champions, Bohemian Rhapsody, Somebody to Love... the guitar has MOMENTS in the songs, but it's not that important.
And those were the songs that really made it for Queen.
Where would Brian May be without Freddie's songs? Nowhere.
Where would Freddie be without Brian's solos? Probably not in the same place but fuck, he had 95% of the idea already worked out, that's much more than enough.[/QUOTE]
My Fairy King, Liar, Great King Rat without guitar????? [img=/images/smiley/msn/confused_smile.gif][/img]
Shall I laugh or cry? Don't take offence, but I'm surprised with such views.
Ah, it was going so well- apple pie, cake....
Shall I laugh or cry? Don't take offence, but I'm surprised with such views.
Ah, it was going so well- apple pie, cake....
You obviously didn't get my point...
But MFK has very few guitar lines...
I mean, it doesn't change the backing track at all and the vocals are still there... The song is almost the same and, to be honest, the guitar parts are not what makes the difference in the song.
But MFK has very few guitar lines...
I mean, it doesn't change the backing track at all and the vocals are still there... The song is almost the same and, to be honest, the guitar parts are not what makes the difference in the song.
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[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
I dunno. They got further without Freddie than Freddie got without them. In their case, he was the missing link - in Freddie's case, the other guys were the counterbalance.
[/QUOTE]
That's a very ambiguous point, very hard to establish. If you mean Smile vs Wreckage, yes, but it's only two years - we can't know what would've happened later on if they kept their separate paths. If Nazareth and Queen had both disbanded in summer 1974, the former would've been remembered as having more input in music and pop culture; or if Travolta had died in '79, people would probably think of him as a great singer whose career was cut off in his prime.
If you mean Maylor + Paul vs Freddie's solo career, let's see:
'Return of the Champions' sold half a million copies (probably way more than 'Mr Bad Guy' though I don't know for sure). Sure, but thanks to what?
* A band name invented by Freddie (which Maylor didn't like at first but now can't live without).
* A set list including four songs he wrote, three others for which he contributed either some lyrics or most of the arrangements, and further eight that became famous with his lead vocal.
* The logo he invented.
* Key screen moments ([i]Days of Our Lives [/i]and [i]Bo Rhap[/i]).
* His mum on stage.
* Loads of marketing prior to and during the tour itself (claiming Paul was his favourite and so on). [/QUOTE]
[b]Zebonka12 wrote: [/b]
I dunno. They got further without Freddie than Freddie got without them. In their case, he was the missing link - in Freddie's case, the other guys were the counterbalance.
[/QUOTE]
That's a very ambiguous point, very hard to establish. If you mean Smile vs Wreckage, yes, but it's only two years - we can't know what would've happened later on if they kept their separate paths. If Nazareth and Queen had both disbanded in summer 1974, the former would've been remembered as having more input in music and pop culture; or if Travolta had died in '79, people would probably think of him as a great singer whose career was cut off in his prime.
If you mean Maylor + Paul vs Freddie's solo career, let's see:
'Return of the Champions' sold half a million copies (probably way more than 'Mr Bad Guy' though I don't know for sure). Sure, but thanks to what?
* A band name invented by Freddie (which Maylor didn't like at first but now can't live without).
* A set list including four songs he wrote, three others for which he contributed either some lyrics or most of the arrangements, and further eight that became famous with his lead vocal.
* The logo he invented.
* Key screen moments ([i]Days of Our Lives [/i]and [i]Bo Rhap[/i]).
* His mum on stage.
* Loads of marketing prior to and during the tour itself (claiming Paul was his favourite and so on). [/QUOTE]
With apologies to whoever created the thread, as it's one of the few vigorously debated topics on QZ these days, if you know anything about music, Freddie Mercury is grotesquely underrated. He didn't make the band, the four of them did. However, his contributions in songwriting, performance, vocals and imagery were key in setting them apart. I heard I want to break free for the first time in a long time a few nights back. At best, a catchy pop song that is hardly one of Queen's best efforts. Yet that song was incredibly meaningful for the people of South America. Why? Not a particularly memorable tune in the grand scheme of things, but Freddie Mercury sings the fuck out of the lines "I want to break free" so much so that repressed people rally behind it. For those who say Paul Rodgers was/is a better singer than Freddie, I would question why no one has ever taken one of his songs as a rallying cry. It's not like IWTBF is Dylaeque or Lennonish in its lytical message, but people relate due to the strength of hisconviction.
First of all I consider The Game about as good as their 70s albums, maybe better than a couple of them. As for the rest of their 80s work, I definitely dislike Hot Space and the other three have some great stuff but are quite inconsistent.
I'd say Brian was the band's best songwriter in the mid-late 80s (the best songs on The Works, AKoM, and The Miracle were each written by him), but Freddie wasn't really that much worse. He wrote some good songs: It's a Hard Life, Princes of the Universe, Was it all Worth It, The Miracle, One Vision (he was the major creative force on the last three I mentioned, right?). He also did a lot with the arrangement of A Kind of Magic and Radio Ga Ga (some people prefer the movie version of AKoM, I disagree). Sure he was definitely inconsistent in the 80s, but on the other hand Brian wrote some bad stuff like Tear it Up too.
By the way, I don't think anyone would care about Las Palabras de Amor and Put out the Fire if they were on any other album, even on The Works or A Kind of Magic they would be middling tracks. They get a little attention because they're on Hot Space and don't completely suck on an album where most of the other songs do (besides Under Pressure of course!), but that doesn't make them particularly good.
Honestly, I think it was John's songwriting that declined the most in their late years. I like all his songs up to The Game, I like I Want to Break Free too (and as mentioned above, Freddie's vocals totally make IWtBF - more than any other Queen song). After that, I really dislike all three of his contributions to A Kind of Magic (and yes, two of them were cowritten with Freddie) not counting One Vision. And I might be wrong, but I believe the only songs he was the main writer of on their last three albums were Rain Must Fall and My Life Has Been Saved, both of which are average at best.
Roger's songwriting, on the other hand, improved somewhat in the mid-late 80s and 90s. I'm not one of the people who hates his early songs, but I'd say John was the better secondary songwriter early on and Roger eventually surpassed him.
I'd say Brian was the band's best songwriter in the mid-late 80s (the best songs on The Works, AKoM, and The Miracle were each written by him), but Freddie wasn't really that much worse. He wrote some good songs: It's a Hard Life, Princes of the Universe, Was it all Worth It, The Miracle, One Vision (he was the major creative force on the last three I mentioned, right?). He also did a lot with the arrangement of A Kind of Magic and Radio Ga Ga (some people prefer the movie version of AKoM, I disagree). Sure he was definitely inconsistent in the 80s, but on the other hand Brian wrote some bad stuff like Tear it Up too.
By the way, I don't think anyone would care about Las Palabras de Amor and Put out the Fire if they were on any other album, even on The Works or A Kind of Magic they would be middling tracks. They get a little attention because they're on Hot Space and don't completely suck on an album where most of the other songs do (besides Under Pressure of course!), but that doesn't make them particularly good.
Honestly, I think it was John's songwriting that declined the most in their late years. I like all his songs up to The Game, I like I Want to Break Free too (and as mentioned above, Freddie's vocals totally make IWtBF - more than any other Queen song). After that, I really dislike all three of his contributions to A Kind of Magic (and yes, two of them were cowritten with Freddie) not counting One Vision. And I might be wrong, but I believe the only songs he was the main writer of on their last three albums were Rain Must Fall and My Life Has Been Saved, both of which are average at best.
Roger's songwriting, on the other hand, improved somewhat in the mid-late 80s and 90s. I'm not one of the people who hates his early songs, but I'd say John was the better secondary songwriter early on and Roger eventually surpassed him.
I don't deny that early-Freddie songs were art, but it was hanging out with the other guys that made him marketable. He would not have been 'big' without them. I think "My Fairy King" is a brilliant bit of writing, but that song alone would not have made them a household name across the globe ...
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[/QUOTE]And Bohemian Rhapsody isn't much fun to listen to when I mute the guitar parts. Anyone could play guitar to the song, but not just anyone would've come up with the same thing. [/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]I mean this is all hypothetical shit anyway. No one knows for certain what would have happened if things were different. If Freddie had been in a different band, you would've gotten a different Freddie. People are not cast in stone. If ANATO hadn't sold the way it did, they might've gone back to selling T-shirts for a living. Anything's possible - which is why I enjoy these threads actually, I like to think of the possibilities.[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]@ Seb, nah I wasn't really thinking of Q+PR. To me that's just a different kettle of fish - for one thing that's two members of Queen teaming up. It's not really a fair comparison of say, how one member did solo compared to another.[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]And Bohemian Rhapsody isn't much fun to listen to when I mute the guitar parts. Anyone could play guitar to the song, but not just anyone would've come up with the same thing. [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]I mean this is all hypothetical shit anyway. No one knows for certain what would have happened if things were different. If Freddie had been in a different band, you would've gotten a different Freddie. People are not cast in stone. If ANATO hadn't sold the way it did, they might've gone back to selling T-shirts for a living. Anything's possible - which is why I enjoy these threads actually, I like to think of the possibilities.[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]@ Seb, nah I wasn't really thinking of Q+PR. To me that's just a different kettle of fish - for one thing that's two members of Queen teaming up. It's not really a fair comparison of say, how one member did solo compared to another.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
[b]dragon-fly wrote: [/b]
My Fairy King, Liar, Great King Rat without guitar????? [img=/images/smiley/msn/confused_smile.gif][/img]
Shall I laugh or cry? Don't take offence, but I'm surprised with such views.
Ah, it was going so well- apple pie, cake....
[/QUOTE]
OMG I thought meetings come to a natural end when pies and cakes are served !
[b]dragon-fly wrote: [/b]
My Fairy King, Liar, Great King Rat without guitar????? [img=/images/smiley/msn/confused_smile.gif][/img]
Shall I laugh or cry? Don't take offence, but I'm surprised with such views.
Ah, it was going so well- apple pie, cake....
[/QUOTE]
OMG I thought meetings come to a natural end when pies and cakes are served !
[QUOTE]
[b]Funky Horsie wrote: [/b]
You obviously didn't get my point...
But MFK has very few guitar lines...
I mean, it doesn't change the backing track at all and the vocals are still there... The song is almost the same and, to be honest, the guitar parts are not what makes the difference in the song.
[/QUOTE]
I did get your point. And I do think that guitar parts make some difference.
Take solos for comparison- Mr. Bad Guy and Back To The Light. I prefer Back To The Light with no doubt. Mr. Bad Guy had good ideas, but exactly guitar parts harmed it pretty badly IMO.
[b]Funky Horsie wrote: [/b]
You obviously didn't get my point...
But MFK has very few guitar lines...
I mean, it doesn't change the backing track at all and the vocals are still there... The song is almost the same and, to be honest, the guitar parts are not what makes the difference in the song.
[/QUOTE]
I did get your point. And I do think that guitar parts make some difference.
Take solos for comparison- Mr. Bad Guy and Back To The Light. I prefer Back To The Light with no doubt. Mr. Bad Guy had good ideas, but exactly guitar parts harmed it pretty badly IMO.