Well, I think this would be an interesting topic now.
I usually don't start any new topics, but since this is some hot news all over the world, then why not?
Sunday, our crime journalist/reporter, Peter R. de Vries is going to explain everything on our channel SBS 6, 9.30 pm Dutch time. I reckon this programme will be broadcasted abroad also.
Natalie's mom is already in Holland, so it must be something really serious...
It is said that Joran confessed to a "friend" of his, which is recorded on tape.
Latest news however: "I only joked, because he wanted to hear this. I know it was stupid, but my confession is false."
Discuss.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
I think that joran van der sloot killed her.
I mean it was pretty obvious because when peter r de vries asked him al these questions at pauw en witteman he threw wine in peters face.
So that was enough for me.
I mean it was pretty obvious because when peter r de vries asked him al these questions at pauw en witteman he threw wine in peters face.
So that was enough for me.
1) A secretly taped 'confession' is not legal evidence, due to the high degree of manipulation possible.
2) Peter R. De Vries has been convicted of criminal defamation before: his "absolutely foolproof cracking of cases" turns out wrong far more often than right.
3) He was previously employed with De Telegraaf, noted as Holland's lowest-quality newspaper
4) Just because Joran van der Sloot is a complete asshole, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is a murderer.
5) Peter R. De Vries is just scavenging for media-attention.
They want to crack the case? Put REAL detectives on it, not some phoney media-horney scumbag.
2) Peter R. De Vries has been convicted of criminal defamation before: his "absolutely foolproof cracking of cases" turns out wrong far more often than right.
3) He was previously employed with De Telegraaf, noted as Holland's lowest-quality newspaper
4) Just because Joran van der Sloot is a complete asshole, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is a murderer.
5) Peter R. De Vries is just scavenging for media-attention.
They want to crack the case? Put REAL detectives on it, not some phoney media-horney scumbag.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]innuendo1990 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I think that joran van der sloot killed her.
I mean it was pretty obvious because when peter r de vries asked him al these questions at pauw en witteman he threw wine in peters face.
So that was enough for me.[/QUOTE]
yes to me too, when you are inocent, you dont do such a thing.
I mean it was pretty obvious because when peter r de vries asked him al these questions at pauw en witteman he threw wine in peters face.
So that was enough for me.[/QUOTE]
yes to me too, when you are inocent, you dont do such a thing.
Why are you doing this?If youre a girl thats cool.But im not gay!!!!!,So fuck off mopjeflauwmopje
i dont get you! i only meant that i agree with wath you said, becaue if Joran van der sloot was innocent, he wouldnt do such a thing as throwing wine in peter r de vries his face. i dont understand how you come to talk about 'gay'? does that have anything to do with what i said? no
Well,its kinda strange,You open topics about me and stuff like that,STOP IT.
only one with the country dancing. i also opened a quiz and a topic for girls where i didnt say a word about you. the country dancing is just a joke but the kid has your hairstyle and glases too. im your friend. qz is ful of friends. we are al eachoters friends. i dont hate you..i m not a spammer and not gay. im bisexual see, i like woman and men. (see TOPIC FOR GIRLS i explaned it there.) i hope i can say im bisexual on this forum without being laughed at.
OK...breaking up the previous tangent that is better confined to MSN rather than on these boards (HINT HINT) I am going to return to the topic at hand.
My own personal opinion is that Joran is guilty of the crime. He was the last person to see her alive, has been uncooperative with the police, and gets testy whenever he is questioned about the case. If he truly is innocent and just "Left her on the beach" as he claims, he has nothing to hide. He can be completely honest with the police (both in Aruba and in Holland) and they would quickly dismiss him from their suspicion. But every time the case is re-opened, they always re-arrest the same people...him and the two brothers he was with. To me, it seems like a case of they know that he did it, but they cannot prove it in a court of law.
As far as this video confession goes....as Caspar pointed out, this is not going to be admissible in court. At least in the US, confessions of crimes are only valid when they are obtained by police, and even then only in strictly monitored situations, with a lot of attention to detail, because the results of confessing to a crime are so damaging. I'm sure it works the same way in The Netherlands. I don't know anything about this journalist who supposedly obtained the confession, but I am wary of all journalists who do this kind of work; at the end of the day these journalists need to get paid, and to do that they must get the story. This means there is no motivation for them to not spin the situation in such a way that it is better for them in the end.
As for her mom being in The Netherlands...this doesn't surprise me. She's a grieving mother who still holds out hope that justice will be served in the case. She is on a crusade for justice for her daughter, and thus she will be willing to cling to anything at all, no matter how preposterous it is, if it gives her the hope she needs.
It will indeed be an interesting TV show; but I don't think it will have an impact on the case itself. They need hard evidence that is admissible in court; Joran can tell whoever he wants that he killed her, but it doesn't mean anything if the court cannot use it as evidence in the case. And with his father working in the legal sector (he's a judge, isn't he?) he knows this.
My own personal opinion is that Joran is guilty of the crime. He was the last person to see her alive, has been uncooperative with the police, and gets testy whenever he is questioned about the case. If he truly is innocent and just "Left her on the beach" as he claims, he has nothing to hide. He can be completely honest with the police (both in Aruba and in Holland) and they would quickly dismiss him from their suspicion. But every time the case is re-opened, they always re-arrest the same people...him and the two brothers he was with. To me, it seems like a case of they know that he did it, but they cannot prove it in a court of law.
As far as this video confession goes....as Caspar pointed out, this is not going to be admissible in court. At least in the US, confessions of crimes are only valid when they are obtained by police, and even then only in strictly monitored situations, with a lot of attention to detail, because the results of confessing to a crime are so damaging. I'm sure it works the same way in The Netherlands. I don't know anything about this journalist who supposedly obtained the confession, but I am wary of all journalists who do this kind of work; at the end of the day these journalists need to get paid, and to do that they must get the story. This means there is no motivation for them to not spin the situation in such a way that it is better for them in the end.
As for her mom being in The Netherlands...this doesn't surprise me. She's a grieving mother who still holds out hope that justice will be served in the case. She is on a crusade for justice for her daughter, and thus she will be willing to cling to anything at all, no matter how preposterous it is, if it gives her the hope she needs.
It will indeed be an interesting TV show; but I don't think it will have an impact on the case itself. They need hard evidence that is admissible in court; Joran can tell whoever he wants that he killed her, but it doesn't mean anything if the court cannot use it as evidence in the case. And with his father working in the legal sector (he's a judge, isn't he?) he knows this.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]1) A secretly taped 'confession' is not legal evidence, due to the high degree of manipulation possible.
[/QUOTE]
It actually is legal evidence in this case... If the police would have done this, it wouldn't have been legal evidence. But if someone else makes a tape like this, it is legal evidence. Though just a confession isn't enough evidence to take someone in. No (other) proof is no case. You still can't be charged for hiding a body, if it's not sure if the person is dead or not.
The good thing might be that this so called confession possibly might open the door to new evidence. Let's hope they find some new traces.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]3) He was previously employed with De Telegraaf, noted as Holland's lowest-quality newspaper[/QUOTE]
My former boss wasn't really what I call a gentleman neither a good businessman... Now I shouldn't be taken seriously anymore in my proffesion?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]4) Just because Joran van der Sloot is a complete asshole, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is a murderer.
[/QUOTE]True... but after yesterday, no-one doubts anymore if he's able to do it or not. He just cares about himself and his money. If he's not the murderer, then he does belong in a mental hospital.
For me it has always been clear that Joran knew more about this case. Like Maggie said, an innocent person doesn't need to lie. Joran did several times, even in this 'confession'. That Daury person - who according to Joran helped him to dump the body into the Ocean - wasn't even in Aruba back then.
Joran knows more about this case... but I think he'll get away with it. Frustrating it is.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]As far as this video confession goes....as Caspar pointed out, this is not going to be admissible in court. At least in the US, confessions of crimes are only valid when they are obtained by police, and even then only in strictly monitored situations, with a lot of attention to detail, because the results of confessing to a crime are so damaging. I'm sure it works the same way in The Netherlands. I don't know anything about this journalist who supposedly obtained the confession, but I am wary of all journalists who do this kind of work; at the end of the day these journalists need to get paid, and to do that they must get the story. This means there is no motivation for them to not spin the situation in such a way that it is better for them in the end.[/QUOTE]
Peter R. de Vries likes to get attention.. that's for sure. But he solved a lot of cases in the past. And he might have made some mistakes in the past, he always gives cases new impulses. Casper says that he's just doing it for the money or attention (which might be partly true), but I do believe that he really wants to solve the case as well.
[/QUOTE]
It actually is legal evidence in this case... If the police would have done this, it wouldn't have been legal evidence. But if someone else makes a tape like this, it is legal evidence. Though just a confession isn't enough evidence to take someone in. No (other) proof is no case. You still can't be charged for hiding a body, if it's not sure if the person is dead or not.
The good thing might be that this so called confession possibly might open the door to new evidence. Let's hope they find some new traces.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]3) He was previously employed with De Telegraaf, noted as Holland's lowest-quality newspaper[/QUOTE]
My former boss wasn't really what I call a gentleman neither a good businessman... Now I shouldn't be taken seriously anymore in my proffesion?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]4) Just because Joran van der Sloot is a complete asshole, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is a murderer.
[/QUOTE]True... but after yesterday, no-one doubts anymore if he's able to do it or not. He just cares about himself and his money. If he's not the murderer, then he does belong in a mental hospital.
For me it has always been clear that Joran knew more about this case. Like Maggie said, an innocent person doesn't need to lie. Joran did several times, even in this 'confession'. That Daury person - who according to Joran helped him to dump the body into the Ocean - wasn't even in Aruba back then.
Joran knows more about this case... but I think he'll get away with it. Frustrating it is.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]As far as this video confession goes....as Caspar pointed out, this is not going to be admissible in court. At least in the US, confessions of crimes are only valid when they are obtained by police, and even then only in strictly monitored situations, with a lot of attention to detail, because the results of confessing to a crime are so damaging. I'm sure it works the same way in The Netherlands. I don't know anything about this journalist who supposedly obtained the confession, but I am wary of all journalists who do this kind of work; at the end of the day these journalists need to get paid, and to do that they must get the story. This means there is no motivation for them to not spin the situation in such a way that it is better for them in the end.[/QUOTE]
Peter R. de Vries likes to get attention.. that's for sure. But he solved a lot of cases in the past. And he might have made some mistakes in the past, he always gives cases new impulses. Casper says that he's just doing it for the money or attention (which might be partly true), but I do believe that he really wants to solve the case as well.
For Maggie and all the others... two short pieces of the show yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEb62RNKIsU
Joran: "That's it.. Something happened there."
Patrick: "Of course something happened.. she's gone."
Joran: "Yes and... the ocean is huge you know."
Patrick: "Man, of course the ocean is huge."
Joran: "I think I've been lucky that no-one found her. Because if they find her, I'm doomed."
Patrick: "Why?"
Joran: "Well, it's just like that"...."When they have a body they can start a case."... "Then they still don't have any proof but I will be taken in again."
Patrick: "I don't know... only if the traces point to you".
Joran: "Yes but... she won't be found anymore....... I think"
Patrick: "You did her into the ocean?"
Joran: "Yes."
Patrick: "With a boat?"
Joran: "Yes."
Patrick: "Then it's done Joran.. If you brought outside, nobody will find her again... Further than 2 mile and that body won't come back ever again."
Joran: Well, we were at that beach together.. And then at once she stopped breathing.
Patrick: "Damn man."
Joran: "So I called a friend. Not with my mobile because they would have been able to trace that, but the pay-phone of the hotel and I said: Something happened, you need to help me. Please come here and help me. And don't call the police please. And he says: I'm coming.. and no, I won't call the police.
Patrick: And he was there in any minute? He didn't ask anything?
Joran: "Well, no.. he just said Shit"... "But she looked just normal you know. Like there was nothing wrong."
----------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfl4ykzXTRA
Joran: "In one time Patrick.. She was doing what people do in movies..."
Patrick: "Shaking?"
Joran: "Yeah, heavily. So I was like.. damn what is this."
Patrick: "How long has she been like that?"
Joran: "You know what?... I don't know exactly."
Patrick: "Man, it has been some kind of epileptic attack."
Joran: "I don't know"...
Patrick: "Did white stuff get out of her mouth?"
Joran: "No white stuff.. I haven't seen that..... At that point I was in panic, you know."
-----------------------
And here a subtitled part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmNyRMUYCNo&feature=related
-----------------------
And this is how much Joran likes the reporter. ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6K2U7eU6VQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEb62RNKIsU
Joran: "That's it.. Something happened there."
Patrick: "Of course something happened.. she's gone."
Joran: "Yes and... the ocean is huge you know."
Patrick: "Man, of course the ocean is huge."
Joran: "I think I've been lucky that no-one found her. Because if they find her, I'm doomed."
Patrick: "Why?"
Joran: "Well, it's just like that"...."When they have a body they can start a case."... "Then they still don't have any proof but I will be taken in again."
Patrick: "I don't know... only if the traces point to you".
Joran: "Yes but... she won't be found anymore....... I think"
Patrick: "You did her into the ocean?"
Joran: "Yes."
Patrick: "With a boat?"
Joran: "Yes."
Patrick: "Then it's done Joran.. If you brought outside, nobody will find her again... Further than 2 mile and that body won't come back ever again."
Joran: Well, we were at that beach together.. And then at once she stopped breathing.
Patrick: "Damn man."
Joran: "So I called a friend. Not with my mobile because they would have been able to trace that, but the pay-phone of the hotel and I said: Something happened, you need to help me. Please come here and help me. And don't call the police please. And he says: I'm coming.. and no, I won't call the police.
Patrick: And he was there in any minute? He didn't ask anything?
Joran: "Well, no.. he just said Shit"... "But she looked just normal you know. Like there was nothing wrong."
----------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfl4ykzXTRA
Joran: "In one time Patrick.. She was doing what people do in movies..."
Patrick: "Shaking?"
Joran: "Yeah, heavily. So I was like.. damn what is this."
Patrick: "How long has she been like that?"
Joran: "You know what?... I don't know exactly."
Patrick: "Man, it has been some kind of epileptic attack."
Joran: "I don't know"...
Patrick: "Did white stuff get out of her mouth?"
Joran: "No white stuff.. I haven't seen that..... At that point I was in panic, you know."
-----------------------
And here a subtitled part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmNyRMUYCNo&feature=related
-----------------------
And this is how much Joran likes the reporter. ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6K2U7eU6VQ&feature=related
What i found more sickening than Joran's attitude and lack of remorse is the way this documentary is released.
I cringed when i saw the poor woman's(Natalee's mother) reaction and that horrible music. Like the matter wasn't serious enough, they fucking needed strings?? Besides the woman's reaction isn't something to show on tv!!!
Horrible.
I cringed when i saw the poor woman's(Natalee's mother) reaction and that horrible music. Like the matter wasn't serious enough, they fucking needed strings?? Besides the woman's reaction isn't something to show on tv!!!
Horrible.
That reply makes me sick Burak... I agree that the show was a bit "too American", but Joran's attitude is more than just disgusting.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=#CC0066 face="Bradley Hand ITC"> The Mir@cle </font> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]That reply makes me sick Burak... I agree that the show was a bit "too American", but Joran's attitude is more than just disgusting.[/QUOTE]
It's just my opinion.
I'm not saying what he did wasn't awful...but the way they showed her mother is equally horrible.
It's just my opinion.
I'm not saying what he did wasn't awful...but the way they showed her mother is equally horrible.