I love Billy, I saw him live in February.
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]PieterMC wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH
wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]
wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]
Fully agreed, opinions are opinions. Personal taste will ultimately decide who is most popular and who is most influential (particularly to others in their field), but they will not decide who will have contributed more to the evolution of music. If everyone was influenced by Jennifer Lopez, we'd be at a grinding halt.
The words used were "one of the greatest composers of all time". That really isn't an opinion being expressed. It's a mention of an incredibly elite group that only a very few (spanning the entire history of music) belong to. With Stevie Wonder, Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, Bela Bartok, Edgard Varese, and Igor Stravinsky in the picture, you're not going to find too many trained musicians (shouldn't they be the ones voting, since they can best guage these things from experience and understanding of their field?) who will vote for Joel here. The key to joining this group is innovation.
Joel isn't the first pop-oriented musician to branch out into classical. Decades before, bands like Yes created new sounds by using classical structures within rock, which is a step ahead. It can be argued that side A of the Close To The Edge album contributed more to the evolution of music than Joel's entire catalog has. As admirable as his move was, Joel's classical works don't stand up against anything written in that field in the last 100 years.
We can mention guys like Phil Collins and Elton John, as their quality of songwriting, diversity, accessibility, and range of audience are well worth commending like Joel's, but they're not among the greatest composers of all time. The world of contemporary popular music is only a small fraction of what exists, but it is also only what the overwhelming majority of the population are exposed to, for a number of reasons. That said, a hundred years from now, if only one of the above will be grouped in with the "greatest composers of all time", it will most likely be Stravinsky or Zappa. Stravinsky tread more new ground in the Firebird alone than most who came later have in their entire career, likewise with Zappa on Hot Rats or Jazz From Hell. Speaking of jazz, there's another entire world of musical evolution worth discussing.
But with the way things have so rapidly declined in the last 25 years (compared to about 1000 years of steady growth), who knows how much influence from the truly great contemporary writers will ever be felt...? And since this is a Queen forum, maybe we should ask, how many 6-minute pop-oriented songs as diverse, complex, and accessibile as Bohemian Rhapsody have reached the level of popularity and success as it did? The answer is zero, because there is no room for another Bohemian Rhapsody - in the mainstream. Look elsewhere and you will find.
Wherever this discussion goes, just don't shoot (or even discuss) the messenger(s). Let's focus on the topic on hand.
The words used were "one of the greatest composers of all time". That really isn't an opinion being expressed. It's a mention of an incredibly elite group that only a very few (spanning the entire history of music) belong to. With Stevie Wonder, Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, Bela Bartok, Edgard Varese, and Igor Stravinsky in the picture, you're not going to find too many trained musicians (shouldn't they be the ones voting, since they can best guage these things from experience and understanding of their field?) who will vote for Joel here. The key to joining this group is innovation.
Joel isn't the first pop-oriented musician to branch out into classical. Decades before, bands like Yes created new sounds by using classical structures within rock, which is a step ahead. It can be argued that side A of the Close To The Edge album contributed more to the evolution of music than Joel's entire catalog has. As admirable as his move was, Joel's classical works don't stand up against anything written in that field in the last 100 years.
We can mention guys like Phil Collins and Elton John, as their quality of songwriting, diversity, accessibility, and range of audience are well worth commending like Joel's, but they're not among the greatest composers of all time. The world of contemporary popular music is only a small fraction of what exists, but it is also only what the overwhelming majority of the population are exposed to, for a number of reasons. That said, a hundred years from now, if only one of the above will be grouped in with the "greatest composers of all time", it will most likely be Stravinsky or Zappa. Stravinsky tread more new ground in the Firebird alone than most who came later have in their entire career, likewise with Zappa on Hot Rats or Jazz From Hell. Speaking of jazz, there's another entire world of musical evolution worth discussing.
But with the way things have so rapidly declined in the last 25 years (compared to about 1000 years of steady growth), who knows how much influence from the truly great contemporary writers will ever be felt...? And since this is a Queen forum, maybe we should ask, how many 6-minute pop-oriented songs as diverse, complex, and accessibile as Bohemian Rhapsody have reached the level of popularity and success as it did? The answer is zero, because there is no room for another Bohemian Rhapsody - in the mainstream. Look elsewhere and you will find.
Wherever this discussion goes, just don't shoot (or even discuss) the messenger(s). Let's focus on the topic on hand.
I should visit these boards more... There are always nice threads when I'm gone. :P
I love Billy Joel to bits! I saw him live last year in May, and it was fantastic. :DDDD
I love Billy Joel to bits! I saw him live last year in May, and it was fantastic. :DDDD
Why Oh why isn't Billy Joel doing any touring in Europe. I'm already paying a ridiculous price to see some old hoarse sounding bald hasbeen and his Red Piano-blandness in December, so I'd easily dish the same money for some BJ...
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Yara wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH
wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Fully agreed, opinions are opinions. Personal taste will ultimately decide who is most popular and who is most influential (particularly to others in their field), but they will not decide who will have contributed more to the evolution of music. If everyone was influenced by Jennifer Lopez, we'd be at a grinding halt. The words used were "one of the greatest composers of all time". That really isn't an opinion being expressed. It's a mention of an incredibly elite group that only a very few (spanning the entire history of music) belong to. With Stevie Wonder, Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, Bela Bartok, Edgard Varese, and Igor Stravinsky in the picture, you're not going to find too many trained musicians (shouldn't they be the ones voting, since they can best guage these things from experience and understanding of their field?) who will vote for Joel here. The key to joining this group is innovation. Joel isn't the first pop-oriented musician to branch out into classical. Decades before, bands like Yes created new sounds by using classical structures within rock, which is a step ahead. It can be argued that side A of the Close To The Edge album contributed more to the evolution of music than Joel's entire catalog has. As admirable as his move was, Joel's classical works don't stand up against anything written in that field in the last 100 years. We can mention guys like Phil Collins and Elton John, as their quality of songwriting, diversity, accessibility, and range of audience are well worth commending like Joel's, but they're not among the greatest composers of all time. The world of contemporary popular music is only a small fraction of what exists, but it is also only what the overwhelming majority of the population are exposed to, for a number of reasons. That said, a hundred years from now, if only one of the above will be grouped in with the "greatest composers of all time", it will most likely be Stravinsky or Zappa. Stravinsky tread more new ground in the Firebird alone than most who came later have in their entire career, likewise with Zappa on Hot Rats or Jazz From Hell. Speaking of jazz, there's another entire world of musical evolution worth discussing. But with the way things have so rapidly declined in the last 25 years (compared to about 1000 years of steady growth), who knows how much influence from the truly great contemporary writers will ever be felt...? And since this is a Queen forum, maybe we should ask, how many 6-minute pop-oriented songs as diverse, complex, and accessibile as Bohemian Rhapsody have reached the level of popularity and success as it did? The answer is zero, because there is no room for another Bohemian Rhapsody - in the mainstream. Look elsewhere and you will find. Wherever this discussion goes, just don't shoot (or even discuss) the messenger(s). Let's focus on the topic on hand. [/QUOTE] Wonderful post! I enjoyed reading it!
wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Fully agreed, opinions are opinions. Personal taste will ultimately decide who is most popular and who is most influential (particularly to others in their field), but they will not decide who will have contributed more to the evolution of music. If everyone was influenced by Jennifer Lopez, we'd be at a grinding halt. The words used were "one of the greatest composers of all time". That really isn't an opinion being expressed. It's a mention of an incredibly elite group that only a very few (spanning the entire history of music) belong to. With Stevie Wonder, Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, Bela Bartok, Edgard Varese, and Igor Stravinsky in the picture, you're not going to find too many trained musicians (shouldn't they be the ones voting, since they can best guage these things from experience and understanding of their field?) who will vote for Joel here. The key to joining this group is innovation. Joel isn't the first pop-oriented musician to branch out into classical. Decades before, bands like Yes created new sounds by using classical structures within rock, which is a step ahead. It can be argued that side A of the Close To The Edge album contributed more to the evolution of music than Joel's entire catalog has. As admirable as his move was, Joel's classical works don't stand up against anything written in that field in the last 100 years. We can mention guys like Phil Collins and Elton John, as their quality of songwriting, diversity, accessibility, and range of audience are well worth commending like Joel's, but they're not among the greatest composers of all time. The world of contemporary popular music is only a small fraction of what exists, but it is also only what the overwhelming majority of the population are exposed to, for a number of reasons. That said, a hundred years from now, if only one of the above will be grouped in with the "greatest composers of all time", it will most likely be Stravinsky or Zappa. Stravinsky tread more new ground in the Firebird alone than most who came later have in their entire career, likewise with Zappa on Hot Rats or Jazz From Hell. Speaking of jazz, there's another entire world of musical evolution worth discussing. But with the way things have so rapidly declined in the last 25 years (compared to about 1000 years of steady growth), who knows how much influence from the truly great contemporary writers will ever be felt...? And since this is a Queen forum, maybe we should ask, how many 6-minute pop-oriented songs as diverse, complex, and accessibile as Bohemian Rhapsody have reached the level of popularity and success as it did? The answer is zero, because there is no room for another Bohemian Rhapsody - in the mainstream. Look elsewhere and you will find. Wherever this discussion goes, just don't shoot (or even discuss) the messenger(s). Let's focus on the topic on hand. [/QUOTE] Wonderful post! I enjoyed reading it!
I love Billy Joel! He's on my top lists of artist along with Queen and Heart. Such talent! I have all his CDs...well up until 1997 anyway. I will admit that I don't like the classical stuff, so perhaps I'm not as big a fan as I'd like tothink, but I love everything he did prior to turning to classical music.
must've missed this topic before...but I agree :) I love Billy Joel's music! He's a great musician. I wanted to get tickets to see him in concert, but by the time I did, they were all sold out.