[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/12/pope.france.secular.ap/index.html
"Religion and politics must be open to one another" says current pope Benedict XVI(former nazi youth and ultra-conservative cardinal Ratzinger). The fight between the Catholic church and secular rulers has been ongoing since the investiture controversy of the middle ages (11th century), but since the early modern era, popes have tended to have the good sense not to launch all-out attacks on secular rule. Ratzinger, however, seems intent on forcing Catholic values onto states, thus challenging divisions between state and church dating to the Revolutionary Era of the late 18th century.[/QUOTE]
hey your closed mind is tresspassing my patience's borders: all i read in your post is hate and lots of ignorance.
now the whole speech of the POpe wasmeant to create a dialogue between Church and State. A dialogue that certain people like you doesn't want to open. What's wrong with that?
it's not the first time you "delight" us with your anti-religious ideas.
i invit eall the reader of this post not to believe to this insane interpretation given to this speech, and i'm sure everyone has a bit more "culture" to avoid believing in this distorted anticlerical opinions about the Church.
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Hitman wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/12/pope.france.secular.ap/index.html
"Religion and politics must be open to one another" says current pope Benedict XVI(former nazi youth and ultra-conservative cardinal Ratzinger). The fight between the Catholic church and secular rulers has been ongoing since the investiture controversy of the middle ages (11th century), but since the early modern era, popes have tended to have the good sense not to launch all-out attacks on secular rule. Ratzinger, however, seems intent on forcing Catholic values onto states, thus challenging divisions between state and church dating to the Revolutionary Era of the late 18th century.[/QUOTE]
hey your closed mind is tresspassing my patience's borders: all i read in your post is hate and lots of ignorance.
now the whole speech of the POpe wasmeant to create a dialogue between Church and State. A dialogue that certain people like you doesn't want to open. What's wrong with that?
it's not the first time you "delight" us with your anti-religious ideas.
i invit eall the reader of this post not to believe to this insane interpretation given to this speech, and i'm sure everyone has a bit more "culture" to avoid believing in this distorted anticlerical opinions about the Church.
[/QUOTE]
What kind of "dialogue" do we need between government and church? Tax isentions for churches? Laws filled with religious ideas, discriminating people from different religions?
As an atheist, I feel trapped just to think there are things I can't do because the Catholic Church (which to me is just a very old institution that spreads lies and tries to control people's lives) thinks they're wrong. The fucking Pope picked up a fight with our government back in 2007 because of our policy of giving free condoms, in some occasions giving free day-after pills and because legalization of abortion for babies with no chances of actually surviving after birth was being discussed.
I think the Catholic Church and all other religious institutions have the right to have their own set of rules. But they're supposed to tell THEIR PEOPLE to follow those rules. It's not the President's, the Prime Minister's or the congressmen's task to tell people what God wants. They're supposed to defend our individual rights, period.
Maybe by dialogue you didn't mean accepting whatever the Pope says - but to HIM, that's what it means. Benedict XVI has IN FACT been trying to interfere in governments. We are not supposed to let it happen. Aren't western countries democratic, don't they give people freedom to follow any religion they want or even to follow no religion at all? How can you feel free to follow jewish traditions if you are forced to follow christian rules? How can you feel free to be an atheist if you have to follow catholic rules?
The pope should go back to his cathedral and pray, that's what he's supposed to do. If he wants to make politics, fine. He's got his own country since the 30's. He can make politics over there, and let other politicians take care of their countries' politics.
"Religion and politics must be open to one another" says current pope Benedict XVI(former nazi youth and ultra-conservative cardinal Ratzinger). The fight between the Catholic church and secular rulers has been ongoing since the investiture controversy of the middle ages (11th century), but since the early modern era, popes have tended to have the good sense not to launch all-out attacks on secular rule. Ratzinger, however, seems intent on forcing Catholic values onto states, thus challenging divisions between state and church dating to the Revolutionary Era of the late 18th century.[/QUOTE]
hey your closed mind is tresspassing my patience's borders: all i read in your post is hate and lots of ignorance.
now the whole speech of the POpe wasmeant to create a dialogue between Church and State. A dialogue that certain people like you doesn't want to open. What's wrong with that?
it's not the first time you "delight" us with your anti-religious ideas.
i invit eall the reader of this post not to believe to this insane interpretation given to this speech, and i'm sure everyone has a bit more "culture" to avoid believing in this distorted anticlerical opinions about the Church.
[/QUOTE]
What kind of "dialogue" do we need between government and church? Tax isentions for churches? Laws filled with religious ideas, discriminating people from different religions?
As an atheist, I feel trapped just to think there are things I can't do because the Catholic Church (which to me is just a very old institution that spreads lies and tries to control people's lives) thinks they're wrong. The fucking Pope picked up a fight with our government back in 2007 because of our policy of giving free condoms, in some occasions giving free day-after pills and because legalization of abortion for babies with no chances of actually surviving after birth was being discussed.
I think the Catholic Church and all other religious institutions have the right to have their own set of rules. But they're supposed to tell THEIR PEOPLE to follow those rules. It's not the President's, the Prime Minister's or the congressmen's task to tell people what God wants. They're supposed to defend our individual rights, period.
Maybe by dialogue you didn't mean accepting whatever the Pope says - but to HIM, that's what it means. Benedict XVI has IN FACT been trying to interfere in governments. We are not supposed to let it happen. Aren't western countries democratic, don't they give people freedom to follow any religion they want or even to follow no religion at all? How can you feel free to follow jewish traditions if you are forced to follow christian rules? How can you feel free to be an atheist if you have to follow catholic rules?
The pope should go back to his cathedral and pray, that's what he's supposed to do. If he wants to make politics, fine. He's got his own country since the 30's. He can make politics over there, and let other politicians take care of their countries' politics.
This really shouldn't surprise anyone that he says this; it's job security. Europe has been moving in a firmly secular direction since the Enlightenment, with many other "Western" countries following suit (though I do wish the US would pick up the pace a bit). That's why he's the attack dog that he is. He sees the papacy's influence and power waning, as millions of Europeans decide they don't need to listen to the papacy anymore, even if they are Catholics. He's trying to make sure the power and prestige of the papacy survives, and that the papacy doesn't wind up a relic of lost times, something that you read about in a history book but can't relate to. It's like the last throws of a drowning man who knows he's going down but can't accept it.
First of all the Pope was not a Nazi. It would be good if you criticize him for what he actually does or did but repeating the tabloid rubbish about him being a Nazi in his youth only discredits your own intellectual honesty. He was registered into the Hitlerjugend like everybody else, it was not an act of choosing. He did choose to stay in the Catholic youth which made him unpopular with the Nazis.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]First of all the Pope was not a Nazi. It would be good if you criticize him for what he actually does or did but repeating the tabloid rubbish about him being a Nazi in his youth only discredits your own intellectual honesty. He was registered into the Hitlerjugend like everybody else, it was not an act of choosing. He did choose to stay in the Catholic youth which made him unpopular with the Nazis.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
being catholic is euqalliy disgusting as being a nazi, they are both wicked and evil
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
being catholic is euqalliy disgusting as being a nazi, they are both wicked and evil
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Treasure Moment wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]First of all the Pope was not a Nazi. It would be good if you criticize him for what he actually does or did but repeating the tabloid rubbish about him being a Nazi in his youth only discredits your own intellectual honesty. He was registered into the Hitlerjugend like everybody else, it was not an act of choosing. He did choose to stay in the Catholic youth which made him unpopular with the Nazis.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
being catholic is euqalliy disgusting as being a nazi, they are both wicked and evil[/QUOTE]
Fanaticism is evil. Most Catholics are not fanatics; this guy is (he endorses Opus Dei, the Catholic equivalent of Islamists). As for YV's touchy response: many young people dissented, at great personal risk. This guy loves talking about morality and steadfastness in the face of danger, but was too much of a coward to practice what he preaches. Therefore, I blame him for having accepted the Nazi regime. If he weren't so full of it on that count, I wouldn't hold it against him.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
being catholic is euqalliy disgusting as being a nazi, they are both wicked and evil[/QUOTE]
Fanaticism is evil. Most Catholics are not fanatics; this guy is (he endorses Opus Dei, the Catholic equivalent of Islamists). As for YV's touchy response: many young people dissented, at great personal risk. This guy loves talking about morality and steadfastness in the face of danger, but was too much of a coward to practice what he preaches. Therefore, I blame him for having accepted the Nazi regime. If he weren't so full of it on that count, I wouldn't hold it against him.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Treasure Moment wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]First of all the Pope was not a Nazi. It would be good if you criticize him for what he actually does or did but repeating the tabloid rubbish about him being a Nazi in his youth only discredits your own intellectual honesty. He was registered into the Hitlerjugend like everybody else, it was not an act of choosing. He did choose to stay in the Catholic youth which made him unpopular with the Nazis.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
being catholic is euqalliy disgusting as being a nazi, they are both wicked and evil[/QUOTE]
My grandma is a Catholic, and even though I was raised Catholic and I've chosen not to follow any sort of organized religion she respects my point of view. She also understands the reasons why people like me have decided to stay away from Catholicism and criticizes the highest authorities of the Church for not doing nearly enough to
I've always admired my Grandma's willingness to help others. Back when she wasn't so old she joined this Catholic charity that collects food and clothing and takes it to poor neighborhoods where people need it the most. Regardless of what kind of faith people followed, everyone was encouraged to be help in any way they could.
Yes, my grandma is indeed a Nazi.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
being catholic is euqalliy disgusting as being a nazi, they are both wicked and evil[/QUOTE]
My grandma is a Catholic, and even though I was raised Catholic and I've chosen not to follow any sort of organized religion she respects my point of view. She also understands the reasons why people like me have decided to stay away from Catholicism and criticizes the highest authorities of the Church for not doing nearly enough to
I've always admired my Grandma's willingness to help others. Back when she wasn't so old she joined this Catholic charity that collects food and clothing and takes it to poor neighborhoods where people need it the most. Regardless of what kind of faith people followed, everyone was encouraged to be help in any way they could.
Yes, my grandma is indeed a Nazi.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
My grandma is a Catholic, and even though I was raised Catholic and I've chosen not to follow any sort of organized religion she respects my point of view. She also understands the reasons why people like me have decided to stay away from Catholicism and criticizes the highest authorities of the Church for not doing nearly enough to
I've always admired my Grandma's willingness to help others. Back when she wasn't so old she joined this Catholic charity that collects food and clothing and takes it to poor neighborhoods where people need it the most. Regardless of what kind of faith people followed, everyone was encouraged to be help in any way they could.
[/QUOTE]
This is so beautiful. I would like to have known someone like your grandmother. I'm afraid my experience with those 'of the faith' has been quite the opposite. It's been more of an evangelical stand where they are right and deserving while the non-believers will suffer in hell for eternity. And while the pope is only a man, many followers are so crazed by his word they'll treat it as, well, gospel.
The very fact that religious issues come up as talking points during our presidential campaigns shows how church and state are blended in society's mind. A simple hint from this guy for further connection is a dangerous thing and, of course, he knows it.
My grandma is a Catholic, and even though I was raised Catholic and I've chosen not to follow any sort of organized religion she respects my point of view. She also understands the reasons why people like me have decided to stay away from Catholicism and criticizes the highest authorities of the Church for not doing nearly enough to
I've always admired my Grandma's willingness to help others. Back when she wasn't so old she joined this Catholic charity that collects food and clothing and takes it to poor neighborhoods where people need it the most. Regardless of what kind of faith people followed, everyone was encouraged to be help in any way they could.
[/QUOTE]
This is so beautiful. I would like to have known someone like your grandmother. I'm afraid my experience with those 'of the faith' has been quite the opposite. It's been more of an evangelical stand where they are right and deserving while the non-believers will suffer in hell for eternity. And while the pope is only a man, many followers are so crazed by his word they'll treat it as, well, gospel.
The very fact that religious issues come up as talking points during our presidential campaigns shows how church and state are blended in society's mind. A simple hint from this guy for further connection is a dangerous thing and, of course, he knows it.
Good point, Magical.
I suppose the saving grace is that the US will never be Catholic...we are too strongly puritanical for that.
But we've had a very strong tie with religion for the last eight years. And what have we gotten out of it? Abstinence only education in schools that has been proven to not reduce the rates of teen pregnancy for one thing. Federal funding of faith based programs for another, which has cut funding from other non-faith based educational institutions.
What a great deal. I can see where a closer tie is needed. (BTW, that's meant to be sarcastic)
I suppose the saving grace is that the US will never be Catholic...we are too strongly puritanical for that.
But we've had a very strong tie with religion for the last eight years. And what have we gotten out of it? Abstinence only education in schools that has been proven to not reduce the rates of teen pregnancy for one thing. Federal funding of faith based programs for another, which has cut funding from other non-faith based educational institutions.
What a great deal. I can see where a closer tie is needed. (BTW, that's meant to be sarcastic)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]First of all the Pope was not a Nazi. It would be good if you criticize him for what he actually does or did but repeating the tabloid rubbish about him being a Nazi in his youth only discredits your own intellectual honesty. He was registered into the Hitlerjugend like everybody else, it was not an act of choosing. He did choose to stay in the Catholic youth which made him unpopular with the Nazis.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
I love you. It's serious. I'm deeply in love with your brain. :-))) Your posts are like ray of lights shining in the darkness. I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful posts. Your thinking is crystal clear and your writing is a joy to read. You're both bright and knowledgeable.
Take care.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
I love you. It's serious. I'm deeply in love with your brain. :-))) Your posts are like ray of lights shining in the darkness. I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful posts. Your thinking is crystal clear and your writing is a joy to read. You're both bright and knowledgeable.
Take care.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Yara wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]First of all the Pope was not a Nazi. It would be good if you criticize him for what he actually does or did but repeating the tabloid rubbish about him being a Nazi in his youth only discredits your own intellectual honesty. He was registered into the Hitlerjugend like everybody else, it was not an act of choosing. He did choose to stay in the Catholic youth which made him unpopular with the Nazis.
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
I love you. It's serious. I'm deeply in love with your brain. :-))) Your posts are like rays of light shining in the darkness. I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful posts. Your thinking is crystal clear and your writing is a joy to read. You're both bright and knowledgeable.
Take care. [/QUOTE]
About the speeches in Paris: the pope really did not "attack" the separation of state and church, he said that Catholics should re-introduce their religion into daily life and that the Christian religion is the ethical basis of our culture and should be upheld. You can disagree but it's totally normal that the Pope would say that, it's his job. Of course, he is also hinting at what many Christians find "agressive" behaviouur of muslims in Europe who are very visible in former Catholic dominated countries . Apparently, the Catholic church feels threatened.
It's certainly different in South America where the church seems to have more power, so yes I think it's outrageous when the pope interferes in the law making of a country in order to impose his morals on a whole country.
[/QUOTE]
I love you. It's serious. I'm deeply in love with your brain. :-))) Your posts are like rays of light shining in the darkness. I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful posts. Your thinking is crystal clear and your writing is a joy to read. You're both bright and knowledgeable.
Take care. [/QUOTE]
I need to learn how to edit things instead of replying to myself in order to correct my errors.
Reading me once is boring enough. Forcing people to do it twice is ruthless.
But this time it was worth the effort because the shining light of YourValentine deserves to be spread all over. :-))
Reading me once is boring enough. Forcing people to do it twice is ruthless.
But this time it was worth the effort because the shining light of YourValentine deserves to be spread all over. :-))
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The Vatican has little power when it comes to taking control of politics, even from Catholic majority nations.
Hum.. youre wrong. the vatican still has political power. a few years ago those clericals decided to close all institutions which women can go to for aborting pregnancy (for what it's worth...). this made a real political deal here in germany !
sometimes i wish those ruling politicians would gather their decisions on a social level and not to enrich themselves and their buddies...
furthermore... being far from fundamentalism i myself would rather see politics being influenced by church than by commercial business...
otherwise he's just a marionette of the vatican... one of the most understated influences in world politics...
Hum.. youre wrong. the vatican still has political power. a few years ago those clericals decided to close all institutions which women can go to for aborting pregnancy (for what it's worth...). this made a real political deal here in germany !
sometimes i wish those ruling politicians would gather their decisions on a social level and not to enrich themselves and their buddies...
furthermore... being far from fundamentalism i myself would rather see politics being influenced by church than by commercial business...
otherwise he's just a marionette of the vatican... one of the most understated influences in world politics...
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]princetom wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Hum.. youre wrong. the vatican still has political power. a few years ago those clericals decided to close all institutions which women can go to for aborting pregnancy [/QUOTE]
What? Are you crazy Prince?
First off, the vatican CAN'T shut down abortion clinics or medical offices. Not even their secretaries can. Or did you mean Clerics?
The clinic down the street is open 5 days a week. Even on holidays.
"We're there when you need us... bring us your fetus."
Hum.. youre wrong. the vatican still has political power. a few years ago those clericals decided to close all institutions which women can go to for aborting pregnancy [/QUOTE]
What? Are you crazy Prince?
First off, the vatican CAN'T shut down abortion clinics or medical offices. Not even their secretaries can. Or did you mean Clerics?
The clinic down the street is open 5 days a week. Even on holidays.
"We're there when you need us... bring us your fetus."
my fault... i did not mean clinics themselves but facilities where women could get psychological advice, which is a neccessary thing by law, in order to visit a abortion-clinic.
if i remember correct it was about half of the facilities closed because they got financed by the church... this resulted in leaving vast areas of germany without giving women the possibility to abort their pregnancy... (btw: i do not like the idea of aborting anyway...but there may be reasons...)
strange topic...
but it gets even more strange...
short time ago the german clerics created about 3000 jobs for exorcists in germany. so every county now has its own. unfortunately i didn´t check what it needs to become an exorcist.
if i remember correct it was about half of the facilities closed because they got financed by the church... this resulted in leaving vast areas of germany without giving women the possibility to abort their pregnancy... (btw: i do not like the idea of aborting anyway...but there may be reasons...)
strange topic...
but it gets even more strange...
short time ago the german clerics created about 3000 jobs for exorcists in germany. so every county now has its own. unfortunately i didn´t check what it needs to become an exorcist.