Jazz: What in the hell went wrong?

I´m just waiting for someone to tell me AKOM is better than Jazz......

I like Jazz a lot, especially Roger's drumming in Let Me Entertain You and Dead On Time.

[QUOTE]

[b]jozef wrote: [/b]


pittrek wrote:

"One of the best albums of the seventies, not only by Queen"

Pittrek, pittrek what are you drinking  - or you´re a madman ? You just bought few of those japanese remasters and now this ....... !?[/QUOTE]


Good point.

I correct my statement -

"[i]I consider it one of the best albums of the seventies by Queen[/i] (together with SHA and Opera)"


I don't want to comment other bands

Steven: I beg to differ with the first part where you write that 'ever since the band formed in 1971, Queen would record an album, then tour the bloody world, then record another album, and then tour the bloody world again'. Let's see why:

Queen debut album was recorded and they went to some local dates. Hardly 'the whole bloody world' (I know you mean it metaphorically, not as in 'all 170+ countries', but still this is just mainland, not even Ireland).

Queen II is recorded, they tour (sometimes as supporting act) England, Luxembourg, West Germany, Scotland, Wales and the States (oh yeah and one private date in Oz). Hardly 'the bloody world'.

Sheer Heart Attack is recorded, they tour England, Scotland, Wales, Sweden, Finland, West Germany, Spain, The Netherlands, Canada, the States and Japan. It may count as 'world tour' though there were no Australian, African or South American dates, but I suppose three continents are good enough.

Opera's recorded, and they tour UK, USA, Japan and Australia. Four countries (or six if you count England, Scotland and Wales separately) are hardly 'the bloody world'. Great, great, great tour, but not a 'world tour' per se.

A Day at the Races is recorded, and they tour the States, Canada, Sweden, Denmark, West Germany, The Netherlands, Switzerland, England and Scotland. Nine countries, two continents, no Oz, no Asia, no Africa, no South America... hardly a world tour.

News of the World: USA, Canada, nine countries in Europe. Again, a North American / European tour, not a world one.

So the whole 'record the album, then tour the bloody world' only had happened once (and it's still a 'streched out' case) before 'Jazz'. Of course, it's not very relevant for the thread itself but I think it's important not to mislead anybody, since many people could be reading your post (and they should - it's gr8), and it's excellent besides this detail.

Now, about the rest of the discussion so far:

- I disagree with the 'improvement in the quality of the sound' from Opera to News: [i]White Man[/i] doesn't sound good, and 'News of the World' is sort of 'dry' (which is partly their own choice). But, for me, nothing compares to the sound of 'Opera', at least not until 'The Miracle' (shitty songwriting except for some tracks, but marvellous production).

- I suppose [i]More of that Jazz[/i] was put at the end because of the 'medley'. I quite like the track, to be honest, just because of the vocals: they're brill!

- They probably had a compromise to include two of Roger's and two of John's, as they'd done for 'News' and as they'd do for 'The Game'. It's sad though that Mr Taylor didn't submit better material: [i]Fun It [/i]is an OK song but when you think it's from the same bloke who wrote [i]Drowse[/i] and who would write [i]Days of Our Lives[/i]...

- I don't think humour played an important role on this record (as opposed to the previous ones). It was more a matter of bad mood, since reportedly there were loads of inner conflicts, and as a matter of fact Roy was asked to produce again not for musical but for personal reasons: they urgently needed a referee. 'News' was also a bit of a rowed record, and keep in mind that a third of the album doesn't feature the four band members (both of Roger's miss John, the closing track misses Brian, [i]Sidewalk[/i] misses Freddie as well as the already mentioned [i]Fight from the Inside[/i]).

- I think [i]Mustapha[/i] was heavily requested because it's so ridiculous it's brilliant (i.e. entertaining). But it's not a masterpiece like [i]Bo Rhap[/i] or [i]Prophet's Song[/i]. It's simply silly.

- Brian, being such a perfectionist, didn't bother to repair the mistake he'd made on [i]Fat Bottomed Girls[/i] break (causing a dissonant G/F which is not deliberate since live versions correct the error). Sure enough, it doesn't make him a bad musician, but certainly below his own standards.

- I don't think [i]Jealousy[/i] is very 'classical' per se, although it may have some subtle ancient influences. I really don't see the humour here: it's more a matter of heartache. Great, great song.

- Yara: No way [i]Mustapha[/i]'s a rocker. It's barely got four bars of 'rocking' guitar and drums. It's as rocker as [i]Great King Rat [/i]is salsa because of the cowbell.

- [i]Bicycle Race[/i] does have some humour, but not a good one IMO. What a stupid lyric... but of course marvellous music.

- I don't think Rog was a visionary for writing a piece of shite like [i]Fun It[/i]. I'd rather have him writing great songs in already-established styles (e.g. [i]Days of Our Lives[/i]) than this.

- John probably disliked the album due to the problems the band were having inside. It may have brought some bad memories for them all. I know of a very tense moment by B&R too.

- I agree: the artists' view doesn't have to affect ours. If John hates it, maybe he'd like to give me his copy ;) And he'd better throw in some manuscripts for his songs too !

Myself, I like the album and I think it's great, and [i]Don't Stop Me Now[/i] alone's better than a lot of the things they did in the 80's combined.

1) I love Jazz

2) Its true, the sound of the whole thing changes between songs... and even in the middle of a song!! (Let me entertain you...)

3) After the album the best Queen tour was realised: 78/79!!

fijgiwufguywgf

Cheers!

Although I agree the LP doesn’t sit together very well, and maybe in hindsight the order of the songs could’ve been different, there are still some great tracks on Jazz. [b]If You Can't Beat Them[/b] is a great little song: John wrote a simple 3-chord pop/rock song, which Brian grabbed hold of and turned into something special. It’s also brilliant live. [b]Dead on Time[/b] is an insane rocker. [b]Dreamer's Ball[/b] and [b]Mustapha[/b] are experimental (for Queen) and fun. [b]Fun It[/b] was probably influenced by the funk/disco sound that was very popular at the time: I like it. [b]Leaving Home Ain't Easy[/b] is very well done, with some nice melodies. However, I would’ve liked to hear Fred sing at least part of it. [b]Don't Stop Me Now[/b] encapsulates everything Queen are in a short radio-friendly format. Could never really understand the point of [b]More of that Jazz[/b]. It sounds like it was written as a promo for the album, or as some kind of afterthought. No one has mentioned the cover: back before cds and downloads, the cover was really important. Jazz had a gatefold cover with great, and slightly opaque art (what does it mean?) Compare that with the crappy 1980s art and you can see why so many fans prefer Queen in the seventies. Jazz also has a big double-page picture of the band in the studio, plus a pornographic poster. What more could anyone want!?

It is wonderful to read so many arguments and comments in reference to [i]Jazz.[/i]  Thanks for taking part in this discussion!  Now, I would like to react to certain comments made in the previous postings.

[b]Dear Yara...

[/b]Thank you for bringing to our attention the reviewer who called the album 'fascist'.  It was an interesting word of choice on the reviewer's part.  At any rate, I took into account your comment that [i]Jazz[/i] is in great part a humorous album.  While this is true, as evidence is found in such compositions as 'Mustapha', 'Fat Bottomed Girls', and 'Bicycle Race', this does not entirely seperate the album from its predecessors.  I wish to point out that Queen, especially in the seventies, were always very much tongue and cheek and this reflects in most of their music.  Obvious examples include 'The Fairy Feller's Master-Stroke', 'Bring Back That Leroy Brown', 'I'm in Love With My Car', 'Seaside Rendezvous', 'The Millionaire Waltz', and 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. 

I enjoyed your theory that the Deaconator disliked the album because his songs ended up sounding differently than his intentions.  It wouldn't surprise me, since it's pretty much guaranteed that the other members manipulated his original ideas.  It practically happened all the time!  Personally, I believe he disliked the album mostly because of its production -- not to mention the albums frequent references to sex (he was a family man after all!).  But of course, this is speculation, I'm not pretending to know his opinions. 

Thanks for pointing out that an artist's view of his/her own work doesn't necessarily have to be ours.  I look forward to your remarks on the album's quality of sound.

[b]Greetings Maxpower...
[/b]
I think you were getting somewhere when you noted that the album was recorded in Europe.  Actually, more specifically, sessions began in France (circa July of 1978).  The band decided not to record in England and instead record at Superbear Studios for the first and only time in their career.  I don't believe the entire album was recorded at Superbear Studios, but this could explain for the difference in sound quality.  So perhaps the studio's equipment was not quite as good as the equipment the band were used to.  Or perhaps the band were simply unfamiliar with the different equipment and therefore misused it slightly.  Just speculation of course!



[b]Hello Sebastian...
[/b]
I apologize for being too general about the "record an album, then tour the bloody world" comment.  Indeed, I was being metaphorical.  Thank you for bringing this to our attention so that people won't take those words so literally.  At any rate, you addressed several important issues; I enjoyed reading them!

Great discussion!

I can side with almost all points. However, the recording quality (or lack thereof) is a major hurdle for this album. The "thin" sound that many have mentioned leaves tracks like Dead on Time and Let Me Entertain You void of impact, while the musicianship and energy on those tracks is evident. I'm not sure where the ball was dropped, but RTB and the boys did indeed drop it. That being said...

Mustafa is as unique as BoRap - not as good, but there is no other band in the world that could pull that off.  It was a joke, and a well played one. First track on the album, though? Not a good choice. I don't give a shit about missed chords - this is rock and roll, not the London Philharmonic.

Fat Bottomed Girls has the best drum roll (including In The Air Tonight} of any single EVER! The end of the second verse - Roger hits as many skins as a human can without killing the groove. Fun song, and one that has stood the test of time. Nothing off of DATR can say that.

Don't Stop Me Now ranks as one of the best pop songs ever recorded. A very good song, but the performance is strong, thrilling and spontaneous. Their best single ever? Possibly...

Dreamers Ball is a treat, Freddie's vocals are incredible throughout the record, and the band was in top form. There's some duds (If You Can't Beat Them and In Only Seven Days are typical embarrassing John Deacon compositions that would continue to drag the band down in subsequent albums), but the band was cooking and the songwriting as a whole was good. I just feel that the production was a trainwreck. They must have been going for a certain sound, and unless that sound was "shitty", they missed the mark.

I think the sound quality of the album and the way it was recorded was meant to be where the drums shine (at least the first 6 or 7 songs on the album with the exception of Jealously).

They were perfectionists so I think they might have wanted it like that and couldn't have it any other way.

Dear [b]Steven[/b],

How are you? I hope your day has gone well.

You created a quite interesting thread, my darling. It's wonderful to see so many people joining in and discussing the album.

First of all, I wanna thank you again for creating the thread and all the users for having joined the discussion with their interesting points of view. It's always great to be here. :-) 

The album sounds just fine to me. It sounds balanced - not too heavy or overstated, but not really thin or meager as well: it sounds just good to me. :op 

Congratulations on the thread! Jazz is an album I just love and features some of my favorite Queen's songs, so the thread was indeed a treat. 

I like it all: the track order, each and ever one of the tracks, the sound of it, the very different kind of humor which underlines the album - it's much more uncompromised, fun, and the more dramatic side is really put aside in such hits as Fat Bottomed Girls and Don't Stop Me Now, which is not the case with Bo Rhap. Mustapha is not simply a humorous hommage to other music styles, as Queen had done before: it's an attack, it's provocative, it's indeed sarcastic in the way Freddie clearly mocks scat-singing, for instance. The guy who said that the album was "fascist" was a jazz fan - no wonder he saw it all as an offense to the music style he adored. The album is humorous in a way Queen had never been before, in my humble opinion: it's sarcastic, in "your face", very provocative, full of hints at Freddie's sexuality and totally, absolutely politically incorret - Mustapha could be regarded as offensive, Fat Bottomed Girls as sexist, Bycicle Race as distasteful, but to my mind they are all just master pieces of uncompromising humor which is NOT done at the expense of the music quality. The album is about fun - "Dont Stop Me Now" has no drama - it's about having fun. Same goes for: Bycicle Race, Let Me Entertain You, Mustapha and Fat Bottomed Girls. :-) 

Yes, Queen had been humorous before, but not in this way, in my humble opinion.  

[b]Above all and most important: [/b]Thanks, thanks, thanks, darling. :-))) Thanks for being here, for sharing your knowledge and thoughtfulness, for contributing so much to the website. It's a joy.

I wish you the VERY best.

I failed...well, let's see then...maybe I can hold the album between my teeth and [b]dance with it [/b]in front of you...hahaha. Who knows! Maybe it does get you hooked on the album; or outright traumatized. Hehehe. It'd be a risky move.

Hug,

Yara in a cold climate here, to Brazilian standards: not at all 200 degrees or Mrs. Farenheit!

--------------------------------

@ Dear [b]Sebastian[/b]. How are you? How are things going? I hope you had a good day.

Just like [i]David Horowitz[/i], one of the finest pianist of the last Century, thought that there was much more music in a single Mazurka by Chopin than in a whole symphony by Mahler[b], Lily of The Valley[/b] is much more interesting to me as far as piano playing - or composition - goes than many Queen songs which feature the piano more prominently.

So, now I'm quoting you, "Yara: No way Mustapha's a rocker. It's barely got four bars of 'rocking' guitar and drums. It's as rocker as Great King Rat is salsa because of the cowbell.".

Well, it's [i]really immaterial to me - to my personal humble taste - whether there are four bars of guitars and drums or just one - [b]there were many rock tunes which gravitated around the piano. I think that Mustapha's piano and vocals DO ROCK - a lot. It's fast paced, energetic, and it's all combined with blistering and sudden guitar attacks by Brian[/b][/i]. 

There's more interest with regard to piano in a Webern's 1 minute piano composition than in many sonatas with all their movements. If one's able to tackle the complexity of these pieces, just like Glenn Gould tried to do with Schoenberg's piano sketches, he opens a whole new world for those interested in the instrument. 

[i]A rock song may have, indeed, two minutes. And it may be even more piano and vocal than guitar driven - Mustapha's piano is frenetic, the vocals are agressive and daring and Brian's guitar is simply brutal!!!

[/i]Sebastian, this is just, I wouldn't even say my view, but my very idiossincratic taste - nothing more than that. As I said before, I love your posts, I learn a lot with them and, in fact, I'm all the more honored to be part of a website where there are people such as you and Steven. 

[i]Keep the posts coming, my dear. I admire them a lot and learn a whole lot with them[/i]. 

Best regards and have a nice day!!! :-)))) 

[Still mad at you because I didn't gain my virtual kiss. I can write it down for you: "Smack", so all you have to do is copy and paste. :op]
Yours,

Yara

Jazz, to me, is the worse Queen album.

I even go so far to say AKOM is better, though... not by much.

[QUOTE]

[b]doxonrox wrote: [/b]

Great discussion!

I can side with almost all points. However, the recording quality (or lack thereof) is a major hurdle for this album. The "thin" sound that many have mentioned leaves tracks like Dead on Time and Let Me Entertain You void of impact, while the musicianship and energy on those tracks is evident. I'm not sure where the ball was dropped, but RTB and the boys did indeed drop it. That being said...

Mustafa is as unique as BoRap - not as good, but there is no other band in the world that could pull that off.  It was a joke, and a well played one. First track on the album, though? Not a good choice. I don't give a shit about missed chords - this is rock and roll, not the London Philharmonic.

Fat Bottomed Girls has the best drum roll (including In The Air Tonight} of any single EVER! The end of the second verse - Roger hits as many skins as a human can without killing the groove. Fun song, and one that has stood the test of time. Nothing off of DATR can say that.

Don't Stop Me Now ranks as one of the best pop songs ever recorded. A very good song, but the performance is strong, thrilling and spontaneous. Their best single ever? Possibly...

Dreamers Ball is a treat, Freddie's vocals are incredible throughout the record, and the band was in top form. There's some duds (If You Can't Beat Them and In Only Seven Days are typical embarrassing John Deacon compositions that would continue to drag the band down in subsequent albums), but the band was cooking and the songwriting as a whole was good. I just feel that the production was a trainwreck. They must have been going for a certain sound, and unless that sound was "shitty", they missed the mark.
[/QUOTE]




I agree with everything you said, except for your opinion of "in only seven days" I think it's a good ballad and fits the mood of the album.   the one thing That jazz has in common with Jazz the musical style is it has a fun time feel to it.  Sounds like the guys are having the time of their lives.   yes, fat bottomed girls has stood the test of time sebastion, lol.  And how can anyone say a kind of magic is better than jazz?....

[b]Steven wrote: [/b]

[listo] [li] The album begs for a bigger, better sound -- much like that of News of the World! [/listo] [/QUOTE]

Are you for real?
We all have our own opinions and I love Jazz. It's always been one of my favorite Queen albums (my Favourite being Queen II), but News Of The World does very little for me. Infact, it's the album that gets played the least!

[QUOTE]

[b]N0_Camping4U wrote: [/b]

Jazz, to me, is the worse Queen album.

I even go so far to say AKOM is better, though... not by much.


[/QUOTE]

Ha ha !!!! excellent, there´s always one. I´ve been waiting days for that. You´ve cheered me up no end.

[QUOTE]

[b]N0_Camping4U wrote: [/b]

Jazz, to me, is the worse Queen album.

I even go so far to say AKOM is better, though... not by much.


[/QUOTE]
So you like Flash Gordon more than Jazz also?