[/QUOTE]
Have you ever tried to play guitar in front of thousands of people high as a kite on heroin?
[/QUOTE]
I've never done drugs and don't plan to. But loads of guitarists have played in front of thousands of people and haven't fucked up like that. Hence, Jimmy's not even sort of close to being one of the best guitarists ever.
Guitarists worse than Page: Ringo, Bono, Adam Sandler... and probably several thousand players we've never heard about.
Sheer Brass Neck · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Sheer Brass Neck wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Funky Horsie wrote: [/b]
But what I will NEVER understand is why people talk about Zeppelin as the ultimate rock band when the band next door was FAR SUPERIOR. I'm talking about Deep Purple, of course.
I mean... MUCH better singer. MUCH MUCH MUCH better. Paice is a much better drummer than Bonham. BLACKMORE IS SURELY BETTER THAN PAGE... but, then again, everyone is. Jon Lord is one GREAT player. The arrangements are better, the compositions, everything... I mean, it's like comparing the moon and Paul Rodgers' smegma.
Seriously.
[/QUOTE] Dude, you believe what you want about Jimmy Page being bad, and he did suck in that video, and that's good. If your criteria for being a good guitarist feature things Page is incapable of, fair enough. Lots would disagree with you, lots would agree. But if you honestly believe what you wrote about Deep Purple, then you truly don't understand anything about music, because even if all of the things you listed why Deep Purple are true, their songs OBVIOUSLY did not CONNECT with fans like Zep's did. Knowing you though, you'll argue with this with your opinion and dubious facts.
[/QUOTE] DP songs connect with DP fans just as much as LZ songs connect with LZ fans, just as much as ABBA songs connect with ABBA fans, PF, U2, GD, GD, RS, BSB, SG, MtH, etc.
[/QUOTE] Sebastian, unless you're going for a posting record, read what he says, then what I say. He was talking about the ULTIMATE rock band (which most people, and even Funky Horsie) would say is Zeppelin. Zeppelin's songs connected with the general public in a way that Purple's never did. Zeppelin are gods, Purple are legends. Because, far more of their songs connected with far more people than Purple's did. Yes are better musicians (weird time signatures, amazing playing, etc.) than Queen (probably, so you don't pick that apart) but they didn't connect with people to the extent Queen did. So, whether Funky Horsie likes it or not, if Jimmy Page is a shitty guitarist, his shitty playing touched more people than whoever the fuck folowed Richie Blackmore and Richie Blackmore and Steve Morse together.
Sebastian · Member since
There's no way to measure which connects 'more'. One song could connect 'more' with one person than another with ten people.
At the end of the day, again, both DP and LZ have gained millions of fans (or at least several hundred thousands), and they've earnt it. Same for Yes, PK, Queen, etc.
I know you're not referring to the literal meaning of 'gods', but still: they're not gods. Again, they may have gained a larger fan base than other groups with way better musicians, but that doesn't make them gods.
Or... is Usher's Confessions a way better album than Queen II?
Sheer Brass Neck · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
There's no way to measure which connects 'more'. One song could connect 'more' with one person than another with ten people.[/QUOTE][QUOTE] [/QUOTE][QUOTE]---there is. Called album sales and concert tickets.
At the end of the day, again, both DP and LZ have gained millions of fans (or at least several hundred thousands), and they've earnt it. Same for Yes, PK, Queen, etc.[/QUOTE][QUOTE] [/QUOTE][QUOTE]---sure, but Deep Purple was not as commercially successful as either Zeppelin or Queen. Why? Were their songs so good people didn't get them? The Ataris's have gained millions of fans, so have Barenaked Ladies. Haven't heard many people compare them to The Clash or The Beatles.
Or... is Usher's Confessions a way better album than Queen II? [/QUOTE][QUOTE] [/QUOTE][QUOTE]---not at all. But in his realm, Usher has established a track record. Zep's track record in rock (not even a big fan BTW) was stellar, delivering top albums with no singles promotion and little video exposure. They had a career, if not unmatched in rock, wasn't equalled by many. The Beatles, Queen and Zep stand alone as pop, pop/rock, heavy rock kings. [/QUOTE]
Sebastian · Member since
> there is. Called album sales and concert tickets.
No, there are way too many variables. If a band sells a thousand tickets and another sells a thousand and one, it doesn't necessarily mean the latter's made a bigger impact.
> sure, but Deep Purple was not as commercially successful as either Zeppelin or Queen.
Again, way too many variables. Or is [i]Body Language [/i]better than [i]Liar, Long Away [/i]and [i]Tie Your Mother Down[/i]?
> Zep's track record in rock (not even a big fan BTW) was stellar, delivering top albums with no singles promotion and little video exposure.
The promotion was precisely that: having no promotion (apparently). But then again, it doesn't at all mean their legacy is bigger than Deep Purple's. Bigger than Sum 41's, yes; bigger than Foo Fighter's, yes; bigger than Velvet Revolver's, yes. But bigger than DP's, not necessarily, and it can't be solely established by concert tickets and album sales.
> They had a career, if not unmatched in rock, wasn't equalled by many.
But one of the 'few' that got to the same level in terms of cultural impact is a band called Deep Purple.
> The Beatles, Queen and Zep stand alone as pop, pop/rock, heavy rock kings.
Kings yes, gods no, and they're not the only ones in that 'podium'.
Sheer Brass Neck · Member since
Sebastian, has Funky Horsie or Skip from the Hot Space thread hacked your account? Because I'll give you your Britney Spears has great music thing, but if you believe that Deep Purple are mentioned in the same breath as Led Zeppelin or even occupy the same level of the podium in the annals of rock, then you my friend are arguing for the sake of arguing. That is as ridiculous as me saying that Mister Mister is as big as The Beatles. I can, and I can defend it as you do, but that doesn't make it anywhere near true. You can argue variables 'til you're blue in the face. In your eyes, BTTL is better than any Queen album. Most people would have you locked up in the rubber room for saying that. We can stay here for the next 24 hours without sleep going back and forth, but I'll simply say that in the public consciousness (critics, journalists, record buyers, concert goers, radio programerrs including WLLZ in Detroit whose call letters were derisively known as We Love Led Zeppelin), Deep Purple is not in the same league. You can't make the criteria. History does, but in your world you move the goalposts if you don't like the response you're hearing. David Beckham = Deep purple. Led Zeppelin = Pele or Maradona.
Sheer Brass Neck · Member since
Plus, this is what I mea, which if we get back to Funky Horsie's unhappiness over why people think Led Zeppelin is the ULTIMATE hard rock band. They're the people's champs. On the Wikipedia page, there are 4809 words written about Deep Purple. There are 11210 written about Zeppelin. That's approximately 2.5 times the words. I would guess that's what I'd figure based on my know;edge that the ratio of Zep to Purple fans is: 2.5 to 1. I live in Canada, and on the classic rock station, and most here, Zep are the kings, Purple gets Highway Start, Smoke, Space Trucking and a few others. Sort of like Queen numbers wise, and Queen is nowhere near Zep's league for rep or radio play in North America. All I'm saying is that there has to be a criteria that defines where people stand. You don't seem to want to accept that. We can all agree Usain Bolt is the fastest man ever based on speed run in an organized event. That is indisputable. We can't say Brian May is a better or worse guitarist than Richie Blackmore because that can't be measured. They can both play, and both are unique but who is better, and what is the criteria, because music is not a competition. BUT, you can look at their careers as a whole of their work, and say May has influenced A, B, and C while Blackmore has influenced D, E and F. And then you can make a case based on their body of work, into which songs like Long Away then become a part, not because no one outside of this form knows that gem. You can't argue that Penelope Spheris is in the same league as George lucas or steven Spielberg, and to the man on the street, Deep Purple is Penelope Spjeris, the other two are Zeppelin.
john bodega · Member since
"if you believe that Deep Purple are mentioned in the same breath as Led Zeppelin or even occupy the same level of the podium in the annals of rock, then you my friend are arguing for the sake of arguing. That is as ridiculous as me saying that Mister Mister is as big as The Beatles. " [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]This is utterly ridiculous. You're sounding like skip here. I'd say "quit while you're ahead" but it's no longer an option, so I'll cut it down to just "Quit".[/QUOTE]
Sebastian · Member since
Beckham or Spjeris: Europe
Purple is, for the man on the street, like James Cameron or Hitchcock.
Amount of words on Wiki is not a criterium for which band had a bigger impact.
There are loads and loads and loads of bands not being in the same league as LZ in terms of fans, commercial success and influence. But amongst the very few who are, you can find DP.
The fact I like BttL more than ANATO has nothing to do with this.
And of course I can accept other POV's different to mine, but I won't simply 'gvie up' just because you say so.
If you've got serious criteria (not amount of words on Wiki) such as album sales and stuff, please bring them here.
And of course the case about Beatles and Mister Mister is way off... that one [i]is [/i]Pele vs Beckham. This one isn't.
Thousands of people think LZ>DP; thousands of people think DP>LZ; thousands of people think [i]StH[/i]>[i]SotW[/i]; thousands of people think [i]SotW[/i]>[i]StH[/i]. That's enough to see they're, in the public awareness, in the same league.
john bodega · Member since
Yeah, for one thing The Beatles were musicians. "Mister Mister" in a thread about bands?? That's just hyperbole at it's absolute nadir ...
Matias Merçeauroix · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
Guitarists worse than Page: Ringo, Bono, Adam Sandler...
[/QUOTE]
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
john bodega · Member since
See, I'm just not sure of the criteria for evaluating guitarists... [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]Any guitarist (ANY) will sound like Page if they try to play something they cannot play. When Page stopped fucking about and returned to his muscle memory, he was a serviceable blues player. (I can't be stuffed giving examples but a couple do exist).[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]Perhaps a better way to judge a player would be to assess whether they have the common sense to play to their abilities, instead of embarrassing themselves in attempting something they couldn't even dream of playing? [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]Everyone does that sometimes - it's how you discover your limitations - but the problem with Page is that he didn't learn from the process, he just kept aiming for the Moon but crashing into trees instead ...[/QUOTE]
Sheer Brass Neck · Member since
Tne Mister Mister mention was hyperbole. They are probably overall better musicians than The Beatles (the drummer has played with King Crimson countless times, the rest were LA studio guns like the guys in Toto), but honestly, unless Deep Purple's rep in Europe and Zep's is 180 degrees different than what it is on this side of the pond, DP do not even rank with Zep here. Not even close using any barometer of success. I will say that as a non-Purple fan, maybe they are thought of as peers of Zep in Europe, so I'm taking a North American view of things. And while these things are ridiculous and subjective, VH1 pegged Deep Purple as the 22nd greatest rock act of all time. Zep was number 1. Ultimately meaningless, but that is how the two bands popularity and stature is [b]perceived [/b]here. Zeppelin are [b]the[/b] heavy rock gods of all-time in North America. DP was a great band for a few years early in their career. Zep's reunion show was enormous news and the most anticipated concert event of the last decade for North American rock fans. Our local classic rock station had a month long promo with the winner getting seats and airfare to London from Toronto. Honestly, Deep Purple could reunite with the original lineup and it wouldn't cause a ripple compared to the Zep reunion tsunami.
The Real Wizard · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sheer Brass Neck wrote: [/b]
Zep's reunion show was enormous news and the most anticipated concert event of the last decade for North American rock fans. Our local classic rock station had a month long promo with the winner getting seats and airfare to London from Toronto. Honestly, Deep Purple could reunite with the original lineup and it wouldn't cause a ripple compared to the Zep reunion tsunami. [/QUOTE]
Finally, some sense in this topic.
john bodega · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sheer Brass Neck wrote: [/b]
I'm taking a North American view of things. And while these things are ridiculous and subjective, VH1 pegged Deep Purple as the 22nd greatest rock act of all time. Zep was number 1. Ultimately meaningless, but that is how the two bands popularity and stature is [b]perceived [/b]here. Zeppelin are [b]the[/b] heavy rock gods of all-time in North America. DP was a great band for a few years early in their career. Zep's reunion show was enormous news and the most anticipated concert event of the last decade for North American rock fans. Our local classic rock station had a month long promo with the winner getting seats and airfare to London from Toronto. Honestly, Deep Purple could reunite with the original lineup and it wouldn't cause a ripple compared to the Zep reunion tsunami. [/QUOTE] Ah.... [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]I think I get what you were saying now. For some reason I had the impression you were more on about their place in rock history with regards to how well deserved it was, or how good the band was in the first place ... !! Silly me, I apologise.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]Indeed, I won't argue with what you're saying. I don't live in America and I never have but the impression I've got from talking to people from there is that Zeppelin is way more acknowledged.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]At least the Zep fans only have one lineup to talk about!! Haha.
