pittrek
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mooghead
[QUOTE]
[b]Micrówave wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]As someone who works in a prison I would be interested to know what you think.[/QUOTE]
Boy, that explains a lot!!!! Do you work 'on top' or 'on bottom'?[/QUOTE]
'up bottom' actually.
[b]Micrówave wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]As someone who works in a prison I would be interested to know what you think.[/QUOTE]
Boy, that explains a lot!!!! Do you work 'on top' or 'on bottom'?[/QUOTE]
'up bottom' actually.
ParisNair
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
mooghead
Prisoners do not get internet access. When you hear about a prisoner updating his facebook page its because of an illegal mobile phone they have in their possession.
thomasquinn 32989
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.[/QUOTE]
Quite interesting, agreeing with something that isn't even half true to begin with.
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.[/QUOTE]
Quite interesting, agreeing with something that isn't even half true to begin with.
ParisNair
[QUOTE]
[b]ThomasQuinn wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.[/QUOTE]
Quite interesting, agreeing with something that isn't even half true to begin with.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the prisoners in some countries actually got those facilties. For sure, not in my country. But I thought maybe they do in the UK, if Joxer says so.
[b]ThomasQuinn wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.[/QUOTE]
Quite interesting, agreeing with something that isn't even half true to begin with.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the prisoners in some countries actually got those facilties. For sure, not in my country. But I thought maybe they do in the UK, if Joxer says so.
brENsKi
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.[i][b]too many[/b][/i] do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
i don't know which of the 139 England/Wales prisons you have been working in, but certainly not any of the 120 i have been to/worked in during my 30 yrs service......
and the only [i][b]"too many"[/b][/i] that i am aware of is [b][i]"too many[/i] Daily Mail [i]readers, with vivid imaginations who believe everything their crazy rightwing comic tells them"
[/i][/b]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.[i][b]too many[/b][/i] do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
i don't know which of the 139 England/Wales prisons you have been working in, but certainly not any of the 120 i have been to/worked in during my 30 yrs service......
and the only [i][b]"too many"[/b][/i] that i am aware of is [b][i]"too many[/i] Daily Mail [i]readers, with vivid imaginations who believe everything their crazy rightwing comic tells them"
[/i][/b]
thomasquinn 32989
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]ThomasQuinn wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.[/QUOTE]
Quite interesting, agreeing with something that isn't even half true to begin with.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the prisoners in some countries actually got those facilties. For sure, not in my country. But I thought maybe they do in the UK, if Joxer says so.[/QUOTE]
In *some* countries, *some* prisoners get *some* of these facilities. Never all facilities, and usually only under special conditions. Joxer makes it sound like every serial killer immediately gets a free jacuzzi after their third conviction.
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]ThomasQuinn wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]ParisNair wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: [/b]
personally I dont think they should be allowed to vote.they should lose all civil liberties like voting,tv's,internet and stuff like that once imprisoned.too many do-gooders in authority now looking after the villains making sure they dont lose their 'human rights' and not enough being done for the 'victims' of crime who dont get such luxuries as free meals and free internet and nice weekend breaks at the beach at the expense of the tax payer.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.[/QUOTE]
Quite interesting, agreeing with something that isn't even half true to begin with.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the prisoners in some countries actually got those facilties. For sure, not in my country. But I thought maybe they do in the UK, if Joxer says so.[/QUOTE]
In *some* countries, *some* prisoners get *some* of these facilities. Never all facilities, and usually only under special conditions. Joxer makes it sound like every serial killer immediately gets a free jacuzzi after their third conviction.
catqueen
[QUOTE]
[b]mooghead wrote: [/b]
Prisoners do not get internet access. When you hear about a prisoner updating his facebook page its because of an illegal mobile phone they have in their possession.[/QUOTE]
Seriously? I thought i had a reasonably accurate view of prisons, and i had a vague idea that they had internet access. i dont know why i thot this though. I know most of what u hear abt the 'luxuary' (however its spelled!) of prison is not accurate, i dont know why i never questioned the internet thing. Even if htye had internet access tho, still wouldnt exactly be a pleasant experience... no freedom, no independance, not able to decide what u will do, wear etc... I was only in a prison twice, a choir i was in went to sing in one ( dont even ask!!!) it was a really really strange experience... changed my view of prisons forever. It was an American prison, and it was so bleak, so hopeless. And even tho i was with a large group of friends as well as staff, and we were only in the main part of it, like some big meeting place, i was still so relieved to get OUT after an hour or two. And there are rules a mile long, even for the visitors. Like even what u wear was regulated!!! No miniskirts etc. And all our stuff had to be left outside and scanned, we all had to be checked, i cant imagine the helplessness of being stuck there for years.
I guess there will always be rumours abt what great benefits ppl have... like assylum seekers in Ireland supposedly all get handed a new car when they arrive... I'm sure all the assylum seekers would be only too happy if someone would tell them where these cars are, cos the reality is they get put anywhere in the country in hostels or shared houses, can be moved at any time, and have food supplied (but in many cases not enough food, and also not food they are used to) and they get the great sum of i think it is about E19 per week per adult. Not even enough to smoke! But ask anyone, and they will tell u about the supposed riches that assylum seekers are given.
Ok that was a rant and a half!
[b]mooghead wrote: [/b]
Prisoners do not get internet access. When you hear about a prisoner updating his facebook page its because of an illegal mobile phone they have in their possession.[/QUOTE]
Seriously? I thought i had a reasonably accurate view of prisons, and i had a vague idea that they had internet access. i dont know why i thot this though. I know most of what u hear abt the 'luxuary' (however its spelled!) of prison is not accurate, i dont know why i never questioned the internet thing. Even if htye had internet access tho, still wouldnt exactly be a pleasant experience... no freedom, no independance, not able to decide what u will do, wear etc... I was only in a prison twice, a choir i was in went to sing in one ( dont even ask!!!) it was a really really strange experience... changed my view of prisons forever. It was an American prison, and it was so bleak, so hopeless. And even tho i was with a large group of friends as well as staff, and we were only in the main part of it, like some big meeting place, i was still so relieved to get OUT after an hour or two. And there are rules a mile long, even for the visitors. Like even what u wear was regulated!!! No miniskirts etc. And all our stuff had to be left outside and scanned, we all had to be checked, i cant imagine the helplessness of being stuck there for years.
I guess there will always be rumours abt what great benefits ppl have... like assylum seekers in Ireland supposedly all get handed a new car when they arrive... I'm sure all the assylum seekers would be only too happy if someone would tell them where these cars are, cos the reality is they get put anywhere in the country in hostels or shared houses, can be moved at any time, and have food supplied (but in many cases not enough food, and also not food they are used to) and they get the great sum of i think it is about E19 per week per adult. Not even enough to smoke! But ask anyone, and they will tell u about the supposed riches that assylum seekers are given.
Ok that was a rant and a half!
Angeline
This is a really complex and interesting issue if you take morals out of it, like 'good' people and 'bad' people'.
It concerns logical coherence. Being incarcerated infringes the most
fundamental rights, if we accept there is a hierarchy of rights at all
- right to private and home life, right to privacy, right to free
movement etc. When you consider this, voting is actually very far down
the list. One of the purposes of incarceration is the deprivation of
these liberties, from either a 'just desserts' perspective or from a
preventative perspective or any other philosophy of punishment.
Seems illogical to me to argue for the right to vote.
I'm not making a moral judgment, i'm just talking about the logical
coherence of the criminal justice framework. I don't even think
incarceration is the best way in the first place bar those that are
truly 'dangerous', a fraught concept in itself.
It concerns logical coherence. Being incarcerated infringes the most
fundamental rights, if we accept there is a hierarchy of rights at all
- right to private and home life, right to privacy, right to free
movement etc. When you consider this, voting is actually very far down
the list. One of the purposes of incarceration is the deprivation of
these liberties, from either a 'just desserts' perspective or from a
preventative perspective or any other philosophy of punishment.
Seems illogical to me to argue for the right to vote.
I'm not making a moral judgment, i'm just talking about the logical
coherence of the criminal justice framework. I don't even think
incarceration is the best way in the first place bar those that are
truly 'dangerous', a fraught concept in itself.
Angeline
unless you see the right to vote as a civil/political right forming the essence of citizenship of a country. Therefore if you remove it you are denying the prisoner their status as a national citizen and the logical extension of this argument would be if they are denied the status of citizenship, the state shouldn't be allowed to imprison them at all: it would technically have no legal power to do so.
Micrówave
Yes, an interesting dilemna, except ONE thing.
Prisoners are not interested in politics, sports, or the outside world. ANY chance of doing something to break up the monotony of the day, they'll do it, push for it, demand it, etc. They have no interest in the actual act (voting) but if it gets them out of the cell for five extra minutes, they'll do it and try to make the most of it.
As for internet access, I would think that would not be allowed, primarily because of how easy it would be to send/receive information PRIOR to screening it. Sure they could look at the computer after the inmate uses it, but what good is that?
Prisoners are not interested in politics, sports, or the outside world. ANY chance of doing something to break up the monotony of the day, they'll do it, push for it, demand it, etc. They have no interest in the actual act (voting) but if it gets them out of the cell for five extra minutes, they'll do it and try to make the most of it.
As for internet access, I would think that would not be allowed, primarily because of how easy it would be to send/receive information PRIOR to screening it. Sure they could look at the computer after the inmate uses it, but what good is that?
Winter Land Man
Ha. I've spent a total of six days in jail. Yeah, I think prisoners should have a right to vote.
Micrówave
[QUOTE][b]Mr. Britt wrote:[/b]
Ha. I've spent a total of six days in jail.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Sodomy carries a much harsher sentence in my state.
Ha. I've spent a total of six days in jail.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Sodomy carries a much harsher sentence in my state.
catqueen
[QUOTE]
[b]Micrówave wrote: [/b]
Prisoners are not interested in politics, sports, or the outside world. ANY chance of doing something to break up the monotony of the day, they'll do it, push for it, demand it, etc. They have no interest in the actual act (voting) but if it gets them out of the cell for five extra minutes, they'll do it and try to make the most of it.
[/QUOTE]
Prisoners are unfortunatly normal ppl like u and me... we tend to categorise ppl, think they are somehow different. I know there are a lot of socio-economic factors that may tend to make that many of the ppl in prison were already in a sub culture that did not encourage active citizenship... but i know a couple of guys i was friends with as a kid who ended up in prison for various things... one yes, prob would not be interested in voting, the other is def interested in sports and the outside world, and i think he would have a reasonable interest in politics, just stuff went v v badly wrong in his life and in his head. I found it rly interesting in sociology when studying deviance and the effect of labelling people to read abt the 'mods and rockers' study that was done a number of years ago. Basically there were two groups of young ppl in a school, the mods and the rockers, one was poor the otehr was rich (basically). Both groups engaged in similar levels of anti-social behaviour, yet the ppl in the poor group were invariably the ones caught. Despite the fact that they did no more, sometimes had done less then the wealthier group. They were not trusted by the police, and did not have sheltered places to hang out in so they were more visable. And when they grew up the wealthier group settled down, and basically looked back at the good old days when they were a bit wild, but many in the poor group went on to commit crimes as adults. Basically the study was saying that they were pushed into it by being treated as criminals and not trusted their whole lives.
[b]Micrówave wrote: [/b]
Prisoners are not interested in politics, sports, or the outside world. ANY chance of doing something to break up the monotony of the day, they'll do it, push for it, demand it, etc. They have no interest in the actual act (voting) but if it gets them out of the cell for five extra minutes, they'll do it and try to make the most of it.
[/QUOTE]
Prisoners are unfortunatly normal ppl like u and me... we tend to categorise ppl, think they are somehow different. I know there are a lot of socio-economic factors that may tend to make that many of the ppl in prison were already in a sub culture that did not encourage active citizenship... but i know a couple of guys i was friends with as a kid who ended up in prison for various things... one yes, prob would not be interested in voting, the other is def interested in sports and the outside world, and i think he would have a reasonable interest in politics, just stuff went v v badly wrong in his life and in his head. I found it rly interesting in sociology when studying deviance and the effect of labelling people to read abt the 'mods and rockers' study that was done a number of years ago. Basically there were two groups of young ppl in a school, the mods and the rockers, one was poor the otehr was rich (basically). Both groups engaged in similar levels of anti-social behaviour, yet the ppl in the poor group were invariably the ones caught. Despite the fact that they did no more, sometimes had done less then the wealthier group. They were not trusted by the police, and did not have sheltered places to hang out in so they were more visable. And when they grew up the wealthier group settled down, and basically looked back at the good old days when they were a bit wild, but many in the poor group went on to commit crimes as adults. Basically the study was saying that they were pushed into it by being treated as criminals and not trusted their whole lives.