Rhyeking,
Great post - thanks for that.
Benn Kempster
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rhyeking
Some more information on how concerts and tours work.
The band annouces to promoters that they plan to do a tour. Every city everywhere has a handful of promoters, each having carved their little slice ofthe concert season. Some promoters do small venues. Some do big venues. Some do only pop acts, like Britney Spears or Lady GaGa. Others do Classic Rock, like U2 or AC/DC. Often it's radio stations who are the promoters, or co-promoters. That's why you see: Q107 presents RUSH at the Air Canada Centre!
So, the band, via the country's record company, announce to promoters that they's going to tour for the new album. Almost all local promoters jump on it and give a list of dates different venues are available. The Tour Manager figures out how best to hit the cities on at least one of their available dates. Sometimes, it just can't happen, which is why a fan bangs his head against the wall saying, "Why are they not playing Denver this summer? I have to go all the way to Boulder? Why?" The answer, because other acts are taking up the space and the Tour Manager couldn't fit Denver in. If the demand is such that Denver fans really want the band there, occassionally the band can squeeze a date in at the end of the tour...maybe...if they feel like it.
So, the Tour Manager does his best to fit in as many dates and cities as possible. Bands like Rush or Queen or U2 usually say things like: make it two days on, one day off, three days on, two days off. Smaller, younger bands can go for weeks without days off, but that's paying your dues. It's what they wanted, right? Anyway, the occasional day off also allows, if the band is willing, to squeeze in a second date at a venue if there's a demand (the promoter will know well in advance as tickets sell out).
Once the Tour Schedule is set, the band annouce the tour, which is the first whiff the fans get. The local promoter (again, usually a radio station) puts up posters sent from the band's office, listing the date(s) and time and venue, and fans buy tickets.
The band will have what's called a Rider, which is sent to a promoter to insure the venue can accommodate them and their gear and their light show and sound. Problems pop up if the promoter either hasn't done his homework or gets greedy, not wanting to miss booking this band...even if it means booking them in a venue which can't support them properly. It's bad business for the promoter, but it does happen. The band may try to make it work and go on anyway, but if the venue is just so inadequate that they feel they can't, the concert gets cancelled. This pisses fans off and they assume it's the band's fault. It's usually not. Just hope and pray you can get the money back for your $120 ticket (you probably won't). Where does the money go? If the promoter is that unscrupulous, into his pocket. He won't give the band their cut if they're not going onstage, so lawyers get called and management steps in and you can believe the band ain't going to work with that douchebag promoter again! If he's the only game in town, too bad for that city, they'll probably never see the band there again.
Also on the rider are things like what food and dressing room accommodations the band insist on. These can be anywhere from totally reasonable (snack platters, drinks, fruit & veggies, pizza) to totally insane (fresh smoked Canadian Salmon served only on a silver platter with escargot placed at intervals of 3 and a half inches around the circumference of the platter and Lay's Sour Creme And Onion potato chips, served by a woman no taller than 5'5"...no substitutions). That's what happens to some people when fame goes to their head.
So, as you're buying your ticket, that's a little of what's gone on beforehand.
The band annouces to promoters that they plan to do a tour. Every city everywhere has a handful of promoters, each having carved their little slice ofthe concert season. Some promoters do small venues. Some do big venues. Some do only pop acts, like Britney Spears or Lady GaGa. Others do Classic Rock, like U2 or AC/DC. Often it's radio stations who are the promoters, or co-promoters. That's why you see: Q107 presents RUSH at the Air Canada Centre!
So, the band, via the country's record company, announce to promoters that they's going to tour for the new album. Almost all local promoters jump on it and give a list of dates different venues are available. The Tour Manager figures out how best to hit the cities on at least one of their available dates. Sometimes, it just can't happen, which is why a fan bangs his head against the wall saying, "Why are they not playing Denver this summer? I have to go all the way to Boulder? Why?" The answer, because other acts are taking up the space and the Tour Manager couldn't fit Denver in. If the demand is such that Denver fans really want the band there, occassionally the band can squeeze a date in at the end of the tour...maybe...if they feel like it.
So, the Tour Manager does his best to fit in as many dates and cities as possible. Bands like Rush or Queen or U2 usually say things like: make it two days on, one day off, three days on, two days off. Smaller, younger bands can go for weeks without days off, but that's paying your dues. It's what they wanted, right? Anyway, the occasional day off also allows, if the band is willing, to squeeze in a second date at a venue if there's a demand (the promoter will know well in advance as tickets sell out).
Once the Tour Schedule is set, the band annouce the tour, which is the first whiff the fans get. The local promoter (again, usually a radio station) puts up posters sent from the band's office, listing the date(s) and time and venue, and fans buy tickets.
The band will have what's called a Rider, which is sent to a promoter to insure the venue can accommodate them and their gear and their light show and sound. Problems pop up if the promoter either hasn't done his homework or gets greedy, not wanting to miss booking this band...even if it means booking them in a venue which can't support them properly. It's bad business for the promoter, but it does happen. The band may try to make it work and go on anyway, but if the venue is just so inadequate that they feel they can't, the concert gets cancelled. This pisses fans off and they assume it's the band's fault. It's usually not. Just hope and pray you can get the money back for your $120 ticket (you probably won't). Where does the money go? If the promoter is that unscrupulous, into his pocket. He won't give the band their cut if they're not going onstage, so lawyers get called and management steps in and you can believe the band ain't going to work with that douchebag promoter again! If he's the only game in town, too bad for that city, they'll probably never see the band there again.
Also on the rider are things like what food and dressing room accommodations the band insist on. These can be anywhere from totally reasonable (snack platters, drinks, fruit & veggies, pizza) to totally insane (fresh smoked Canadian Salmon served only on a silver platter with escargot placed at intervals of 3 and a half inches around the circumference of the platter and Lay's Sour Creme And Onion potato chips, served by a woman no taller than 5'5"...no substitutions). That's what happens to some people when fame goes to their head.
So, as you're buying your ticket, that's a little of what's gone on beforehand.
thunderbolt 31742
I remember browsing a few band riders some years ago when they were published on The Smoking Gun's website following some big controversy over whether certain equipment was specified on a band's rider or not. Among the more memorable items I found:
1. Any venue booking the Wallflowers may make no reference to Jakob Dylan being Bob Dylan's son. Ever.
2. One band (I think it was the Foo Fighters, but I could be very wrong) insists on having a bowl of M&M's in their dressing room--with all the green M&M's picked out.
3. One band specified that they required two dressing rooms--one to prep for the show and relax in, and one with a king-size bed, stereo sound system and lights on a dimmer switch. Hmmm...
4. The Foo Fighters specified that signs must be clearly marked indicating where the catering will be located, as "Fat Roadies need to eat so they can start their grueling 90-minute workday!"
1. Any venue booking the Wallflowers may make no reference to Jakob Dylan being Bob Dylan's son. Ever.
2. One band (I think it was the Foo Fighters, but I could be very wrong) insists on having a bowl of M&M's in their dressing room--with all the green M&M's picked out.
3. One band specified that they required two dressing rooms--one to prep for the show and relax in, and one with a king-size bed, stereo sound system and lights on a dimmer switch. Hmmm...
4. The Foo Fighters specified that signs must be clearly marked indicating where the catering will be located, as "Fat Roadies need to eat so they can start their grueling 90-minute workday!"
emrabt
Thunderbolt most of those silly things like M&M are put into Riders to make sure they are fully read. There’s logic to the madness, if a rider’s not fully followed it probably means other instructions haven’t been followed, which could lead to equipment being damaged or damaging a person / venue.
Sunshine
Aerosmith is doing real encores.
The amount of songs differs per tour and per gig. Plus the setlist is quite variable.
Last May, they forgot to put in 'Crazy' in the setlist and that one was played after the band did the 'normal' encores.
Fantastic live band, Aerosmith, you have to see them live once you still have the chance now..
The amount of songs differs per tour and per gig. Plus the setlist is quite variable.
Last May, they forgot to put in 'Crazy' in the setlist and that one was played after the band did the 'normal' encores.
Fantastic live band, Aerosmith, you have to see them live once you still have the chance now..
rhyeking
Crazy
Amazing
Crying
Three hit singles of the same song!
Marketing genius.
Amazing
Crying
Three hit singles of the same song!
Marketing genius.
Sunshine
rhyeking wrote: Crazy
Amazing
Crying
Three hit singles of the same song!
Marketing genius.
Ah that is not true, they are different songs with different themes. Then you can also say that Save Me and Who Wants To Live Forever are the same, which is not the case.
But if you think of these songs when you think of Aerosmith then you need to dig a bit deeper for the real gems. Check out songs like Toys In The Attic, Kings & Queens, Back In The Saddle, Nobody's Fault, Mama Kin, Draw The Line, Last Child, Sick As A Dog, Sweet Emotion and so on...that is the true Aerosmith. Too bad they made songs like I Don't Want To Miss A Thing and so on...they are terrible.
Amazing
Crying
Three hit singles of the same song!
Marketing genius.
Ah that is not true, they are different songs with different themes. Then you can also say that Save Me and Who Wants To Live Forever are the same, which is not the case.
But if you think of these songs when you think of Aerosmith then you need to dig a bit deeper for the real gems. Check out songs like Toys In The Attic, Kings & Queens, Back In The Saddle, Nobody's Fault, Mama Kin, Draw The Line, Last Child, Sick As A Dog, Sweet Emotion and so on...that is the true Aerosmith. Too bad they made songs like I Don't Want To Miss A Thing and so on...they are terrible.
The Real Wizard
Sunshine wrote:
"Ah that is not true, they are different songs with different themes. Then you can also say that Save Me and Who Wants To Live Forever are the same, which is not the case."
Cryin' and Crazy are the same tempo, same key, and have similar melodies. So you're right about Amazing being compared to either one of them.
Honestly, whenever I hear Crazy and it gets to the pre-chorus, I expect the chorus of Cryin' because they're just so similar. Personally, I think Cryin' is by far the best of the three songs, and dare I say one of the best pop songs of the 90s.
...although Joe Perry's solo in Crazy is oh so sweet.
"Ah that is not true, they are different songs with different themes. Then you can also say that Save Me and Who Wants To Live Forever are the same, which is not the case."
Cryin' and Crazy are the same tempo, same key, and have similar melodies. So you're right about Amazing being compared to either one of them.
Honestly, whenever I hear Crazy and it gets to the pre-chorus, I expect the chorus of Cryin' because they're just so similar. Personally, I think Cryin' is by far the best of the three songs, and dare I say one of the best pop songs of the 90s.
...although Joe Perry's solo in Crazy is oh so sweet.
rhyeking
Honestly, I'm not much of an Aerosmith fan, and any Aerosmith I listen to tends to be from the '70s.
However, I'm not the only one who thought they sounded similar (or the same). Adam Sandler had a bit on SNL where he sung a mash-up of the three that went something like:
"Crazy and Amazing,
Amazing and I'm Crying!"
And on and on...
Plus, all three had Alicia Silverstone, so on MuchMusic, I never knew which one I was watching (admittedly, I didn't much care).
However, I'm not the only one who thought they sounded similar (or the same). Adam Sandler had a bit on SNL where he sung a mash-up of the three that went something like:
"Crazy and Amazing,
Amazing and I'm Crying!"
And on and on...
Plus, all three had Alicia Silverstone, so on MuchMusic, I never knew which one I was watching (admittedly, I didn't much care).
Amazon
rhyeking wrote: "Honestly, I'm not much of an Aerosmith fan, and any Aerosmith I listen to tends to be from the '70s"
Me too, although I only really listen to two of their songs; Dream On and Walk This Way. Those two songs (especially Dream On) remain IMO among the greatest rock songs of all time. However those two songs aside, I don't particularly like Aerosmith.
Me too, although I only really listen to two of their songs; Dream On and Walk This Way. Those two songs (especially Dream On) remain IMO among the greatest rock songs of all time. However those two songs aside, I don't particularly like Aerosmith.
The Real Wizard
Give 'Rocks' a try. While all their early albums are great, Rocks is probably their best.
NOTWMEDDLE
Pink Floyd only did a few surprise third encores very few times. On the 1977 Animals tour, they did "Careful With That Axe Eugene" as a third encore. Then on the last gig in Montreal they did "More Blues" without David Gilmour who was p*ssed off at the way he played that night. On the Momentary Lapse tour early for a number of shows, "Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts 1-5)" was a surprise third encore before the band moved it to beginning of show replacing "Echoes" and "Run Like Hell" was permanent encore.
NOTWMEDDLE
I also forgot to mention, David Gilmour jumbled the tracklisting of his On an Island album on his last solo tour. Plus would switch songs nightly ("Wots...Uh the Deal", "Fat Old Sun", "Wearing the Inside Out", "Dominoes" (a Syd Barrett tune), "Dark Globe" (another Syd Barrett tune), "Coming Back to Life", "On the Turning Away" and "A Great Day For Freedom") and even played songs from before his time with Pink Floyd ("Arnold Layne", "Astronomy Domine") and then of course he had to play "Breathe"/"Time (with Breathe Reprise)", "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", "Echoes", "Wish You Were Here", "Comfortably Numb". Then on shows David Crosby and Graham Nash appeared to sing on some of On an Island's tunes and "Shine On" they also did "Find The Cost of Freedom". Pink Floyd changed the setlist nightly on The Division Bell Tour as well. In Norway, they did "Marooned" once. Also, many shows had Dark Side in its entirety as second set. Other shows saw "Astronomy Domine" open shows.
Sunshine
Sir GH wrote: Sunshine wrote:
"Ah that is not true, they are different songs with different themes. Then you can also say that Save Me and Who Wants To Live Forever are the same, which is not the case."
Cryin' and Crazy are the same tempo, same key, and have similar melodies. So you're right about Amazing being compared to either one of them.
Honestly, whenever I hear Crazy and it gets to the pre-chorus, I expect the chorus of Cryin' because they're just so similar. Personally, I think Cryin' is by far the best of the three songs, and dare I say one of the best pop songs of the 90s.
...although Joe Perry's solo in Crazy is oh so sweet.
Nice to see you can enjoy Aerosmith, i am a big fan next to Queen.
You are right about Crazy and Cryin', they are alike. It also doesnt help both were on the Get A Grip album and the 2 video's were similar with Alicia Silverstone. Well, it worked at the time and I also like Cryin'. Great chord progressions, great emotion, great singing like no one else can, great video...it really fitted at the time.
I always disliked Crazy because of its sweetness...but now i listen to it as a country song. In a different arrangement, it could be really cool. It is not a bad song.
But yeah, if you know 'Rocks', you know what Aerosmith is all about. Back In The Saddle is such an awesome song, in my personal top 3 songs all time of all bands.
The vocals are amazing, the drums, guitar, bass...everything becomes one and lifts the song to the sky...When Steven Tyler comes in and screams: I am baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!! Fantastic. And then it gets so cool in the end when he goes: ridin' HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH..
Come on guys, give it a try and get your prejustices of Aerosmith out of the way...they are not a Bon Jovi...really:)
And Aerosmith is one of the VERY few bands that are live much better than on the record. It is just an experience...
"Ah that is not true, they are different songs with different themes. Then you can also say that Save Me and Who Wants To Live Forever are the same, which is not the case."
Cryin' and Crazy are the same tempo, same key, and have similar melodies. So you're right about Amazing being compared to either one of them.
Honestly, whenever I hear Crazy and it gets to the pre-chorus, I expect the chorus of Cryin' because they're just so similar. Personally, I think Cryin' is by far the best of the three songs, and dare I say one of the best pop songs of the 90s.
...although Joe Perry's solo in Crazy is oh so sweet.
Nice to see you can enjoy Aerosmith, i am a big fan next to Queen.
You are right about Crazy and Cryin', they are alike. It also doesnt help both were on the Get A Grip album and the 2 video's were similar with Alicia Silverstone. Well, it worked at the time and I also like Cryin'. Great chord progressions, great emotion, great singing like no one else can, great video...it really fitted at the time.
I always disliked Crazy because of its sweetness...but now i listen to it as a country song. In a different arrangement, it could be really cool. It is not a bad song.
But yeah, if you know 'Rocks', you know what Aerosmith is all about. Back In The Saddle is such an awesome song, in my personal top 3 songs all time of all bands.
The vocals are amazing, the drums, guitar, bass...everything becomes one and lifts the song to the sky...When Steven Tyler comes in and screams: I am baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!! Fantastic. And then it gets so cool in the end when he goes: ridin' HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH..
Come on guys, give it a try and get your prejustices of Aerosmith out of the way...they are not a Bon Jovi...really:)
And Aerosmith is one of the VERY few bands that are live much better than on the record. It is just an experience...
rhyeking
I like and respect Aerosmith much more than Bon Jovi.
JBJ, please stop equating yourself to a cowboy. You're from New Jersey. A motorcycle is not a horse. Yeah, you wrote the "Young Guns II" theme, but that makes you a gunslinger just as much "Flash Gordon" makes Queen astronauts.
Hmm...
Freddie MERCURY
Flash Gordon
Star Fleet Project
Fun In Space
Strange Frontier
"Bang!" book
Brian's Astronomy Ph.D.
The Cosmos Rocks
Dammit!
Fine, JBJ, keep singing about your inner cowboy and touring with Kid Rock. Just don't expect me to care.
JBJ, please stop equating yourself to a cowboy. You're from New Jersey. A motorcycle is not a horse. Yeah, you wrote the "Young Guns II" theme, but that makes you a gunslinger just as much "Flash Gordon" makes Queen astronauts.
Hmm...
Freddie MERCURY
Flash Gordon
Star Fleet Project
Fun In Space
Strange Frontier
"Bang!" book
Brian's Astronomy Ph.D.
The Cosmos Rocks
Dammit!
Fine, JBJ, keep singing about your inner cowboy and touring with Kid Rock. Just don't expect me to care.