March Of The Black Queen - Queen's Real Masterpiece?

It doesn't. It takes some melody lines from an opera, but it translates it to a 'regular' piano ballad. It doesn't use opera per se and as such it doesn't combine it with rock either.

The intro in Lap of the Gods does, as well as Bo Rhap's middle section.

Sebastian wrote:

It doesn't. It takes some melody lines from an opera, but it translates it to a 'regular' piano ballad. It doesn't use opera per se and as such it doesn't combine it with rock either.

Err. yes it does. There's no translation: it copies an opera melody, and the rock/pop song follows. There's no translation: it is two separate pieces, thus a combination.

It copies a melody used in an opera, which is not the same as 'an opera melody'. A melody isn't opera, rock, disco or anything else. A melody can be used in opera, rock, disco, etc. What Freddie did was taking a melody that was used in an opera, and use it in a piano ballad. He didn't combine opera with rock in that occasion.

He did, though, in both Lap of the Gods and Bohemian Rhapsody.

Sebastian wrote:

It copies a melody used in an opera, which is not the same as 'an opera melody'. A melody isn't opera, rock, disco or anything else. A melody can be used in opera, rock, disco, etc. What Freddie did was taking a melody that was used in an opera, and use it in a piano ballad. He didn't combine opera with rock in that occasion.

He did, though, in both Lap of the Gods and Bohemian Rhapsody.

I refer you to the answer I gave earlier.

Someone called "November Rain" a masterpiece.

At first I started laughing uncontrollably.  Then I realized in one sense of the word, he's right.

So I'm voting Queen's Radio Gaga as their masterpiece.

I'm guessing that by "Masterpiece" we mean the song that signalled the end of the band, even if they don't know it.

Other famous masterpieces:

Overkill - Men At Work
Everybody Have Fun Tonight - Wang Chung
Raised On Radio (Album) - Journey
Lick It Up - Kiss
This Love - Maroon 5
Saving All My Love For You - Whitney Houston
Victory - The Jacksons
Invisible Touch - Genesis

Micrówave wrote:

Someone called "November Rain" a masterpiece.

At first I started laughing uncontrollably.  Then I realized in one sense of the word, he's right.

So I'm voting Queen's Radio Gaga as their masterpiece.

I'm guessing that by "Masterpiece" we mean the song that signalled the end of the band, even if they don't know it.

Other famous masterpieces:

Overkill - Men At Work
Everybody Have Fun Tonight - Wang Chung
Raised On Radio (Album) - Journey
Lick It Up - Kiss
This Love - Maroon 5
Saving All My Love For You - Whitney Houston
Victory - The Jacksons
Invisible Touch - Genesis 

GNR doesn't have a masterpiece.....Grossly overated.....

Micrówave wrote:

Someone called "November Rain" a masterpiece.

At least in this thread, nobody's called it a masterpiece (yet, that is). What I wrote was:

'That's very uncommon in music: usually they're either simple and catchy and/or memorable (e.g. Stand By Me, Stairway to Heaven or even November Rain despite its 'epic' vibe and length) or very arranged and not too accessible like the aforementioned March of the Black Queen.'

By 'they' I meant songs, which may or may not be masterpieces.

And indeed, November Rain is both simple and memorable in spite of its 'epic' vibe and length: ten chords (simple), square phrasing (simple), memorable solo, and people tend to remember (at least parts of) the song regardless of whether they consider it a masterpice or not. Of course the video helped a lot too... I remember watching it for the first time 17-18 years ago and adoring the actress who played the wife. Good marketing strategy.

I remember hearing it and knowing that we'd never get a decent GNR album after that.

Epic vibe?  No, Axl simply put his thumb on the F and twisted his wrist to the right and the song was born.

Agree 100%

Im not great at musical theory, but where is the polyrhythm in MOTBQ and what is a polyrhythm?

mike hunt wrote:

love march of the black queen, but you can't change history. Bo Rhap will always be regarded as their masterpiece.  Queen2 is my favorite queen album, and maybe my favorite album ever, but it's not  way above A night at the opera.   I think opera really is queen's best album overall.

side black is the best chunk of any queen songs gathered together in one sequence....and FFMS/Nevermore/March
are the original Bo Rhap....

for me personally, Nevermore will always be Freddie/Queen's finest and most beautiful song

> Epic vibe?

Indeed: it's long, involved, features loads of overdubs, that qualifies for its being epic.

> No, Axl simply put his thumb on the F and twisted his wrist to the right and the song was born.

Actually, it's E.

> Im not great at musical theory, but where is the polyrhythm in MOTBQ and what is a polyrhythm?

Polyrhythm is having two or more metres going on simultaneously. During the 'crazy interlude' in TMotBQ the vocals are in 8/8 while the other instruments are in 12/8. This bloke explains it way better than I could: http://www.queensongs.info/the-book/songwriting-analyses/no-synth-era/queen-ii/march-of-the-black-queen.html

i think the true definition of "masterpiece" in rock music is possibly more apt when applied to a song that happened relatively early in a band's career ...one which became their signature.....that - no matter what they did afterward - this one song would always eclipse all else.....so that non-fans would comment  "oh yeah, aren't they band that did that ****** song"

blue oyster cult - reaper
procul harem - whiter shade of pale
deep purple - smoke on the water
hawkwind - silver machine

that klind of thing

Perhaps more than 'relatively early', it was the one that launched the act into superstardom - which indeed tends to happen relatively early. Of course, in retrospect, November Rain is closer to the GnR founding (released six years afterwards) than to the present (UYI is about to turn nineteen). Of course, there are many ways to look at it, as some would regard UYI I&II and perhaps SI as their last work and consider 'Chinese Democracy' to be something else; in which case November Rain is indeed part of their later days.

With Queen I suppose the same disagreements could occur: some think Queen was only 1970-1991, in which case 'The Works' is part of the later days. For those thinking Queen covers the 1970-2010 period and counting, then 'The Miracle' is closer to the beginning (19 years) than the present (21 years).

But IMO there are other factors too. For instance, I suppose millions of people love Crazy Little Thing, and there are probably many (it could be 20 or 45000, etc) whose favourite song is that one, but not too many would call it the band's masterpiece. There's something about Bo Rhap that made it groundbreaking and pivotal, even if it didn't represent Queen peaking in America, yet.

Curiously, also in retrospect, Bo Rhap was done close to the end of the band's most overlayered period. Two years later they'd be doing things like Sleeping on the Sidewalk and My Melancholy Blues, which are great, but in a radically different direction. For some extent it also happened with Stairway to Heaven and some others.

November Rain, to me, is probably more similar to Dream On: a very important moment in each concert featuring the singer on piano and the lead guitarist playing some of his most famous work.

Great song- no doubt. Though I'd say My Fairy King is better (for the first album it's absolutely superb). Also I like more Prophet's Song than Rhapsody (I'm not saying that I dislike Rhapsody!). I never understood why it wasn't a released as a single.
The medley with Black Queen was a really nice number.