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I don't think that lyrics was Freddie's weakest point, and as a lyricist, I think he was definitely better than Brian.
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Sebastian
OF course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:
Fred was a good lyriricst.
Freddie was an extraordinary composer.
Freddie was an extraordinary arranger.
So yes, in the creative department, lyrics were his 'weakest' point. If you've got three brothers, aged 70, 100 and 102, the one who's 70-YO is the 'youngest' of them all, even if he's not a teenager, let alone a baby. Same here: Fred's lyrics weren't bad, but they were far inferior to his music. He was the first to admit so.
And of course I was being sarcastic when mentioning arguably Brian's worst lyrical pieces and compared them with two of Fred's best. And that's my point exactly: if we compared 'Dragon Attack' with 'Love of My Life', Fred would 'win' by a country mile; but if we compared 'Delilah' with 'The Show Must Go On' it'd be the other way around.
Fred was a good lyriricst.
Freddie was an extraordinary composer.
Freddie was an extraordinary arranger.
So yes, in the creative department, lyrics were his 'weakest' point. If you've got three brothers, aged 70, 100 and 102, the one who's 70-YO is the 'youngest' of them all, even if he's not a teenager, let alone a baby. Same here: Fred's lyrics weren't bad, but they were far inferior to his music. He was the first to admit so.
And of course I was being sarcastic when mentioning arguably Brian's worst lyrical pieces and compared them with two of Fred's best. And that's my point exactly: if we compared 'Dragon Attack' with 'Love of My Life', Fred would 'win' by a country mile; but if we compared 'Delilah' with 'The Show Must Go On' it'd be the other way around.
Amazon
Sebastian wrote:
"OF course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:
Fred was a good lyriricst.
Freddie was an extraordinary composer.
Freddie was an extraordinary arranger.
So yes, in the creative department, lyrics were his 'weakest' point. If you've got three brothers, aged 70, 100 and 102, the one who's 70-YO is the 'youngest' of them all, even if he's not a teenager, let alone a baby. Same here: Fred's lyrics weren't bad, but they were far inferior to his music. He was the first to admit so"
Except everything you said IS a matter of opinion. Contrasting it to the ages of three brothers is absurd, that's fact, however saying that Freddie was a better composer and arranger than he was as a lyricist (and using the adjective you did) is entirely subjective. It also doesn't matter what Freddie said. He may believe that his lyrics was his weakest point, that doesn't mean that others have to agree with him. This whole thing is subjective, and in fact, even saying that Freddie was an adequate song-writer is subjective. Similarly, the examples of songs you used are subjective.
"OF course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:
Fred was a good lyriricst.
Freddie was an extraordinary composer.
Freddie was an extraordinary arranger.
So yes, in the creative department, lyrics were his 'weakest' point. If you've got three brothers, aged 70, 100 and 102, the one who's 70-YO is the 'youngest' of them all, even if he's not a teenager, let alone a baby. Same here: Fred's lyrics weren't bad, but they were far inferior to his music. He was the first to admit so"
Except everything you said IS a matter of opinion. Contrasting it to the ages of three brothers is absurd, that's fact, however saying that Freddie was a better composer and arranger than he was as a lyricist (and using the adjective you did) is entirely subjective. It also doesn't matter what Freddie said. He may believe that his lyrics was his weakest point, that doesn't mean that others have to agree with him. This whole thing is subjective, and in fact, even saying that Freddie was an adequate song-writer is subjective. Similarly, the examples of songs you used are subjective.
mike hunt
i don't think the lryics for delilah were bad, Actually charming if anything. The music in the song was lacking though. It is all opinion, we know that. The reason i like freds lryics a little better than brian (surprise surprise) is because they're not so simple, you have to guess what the hell this guy is talking about. I personally love the fact that fans still debate what Bo rhap was about, or the crazy lryics to Fairyfeller's Masterstroke, Which i think were brillant. I still wonder what the hell some of the lryics in march of the black queen were about...Where the hell did this guy come up with this stuff?....My fairy king?.....Some may say silly or confusing, I say fucking brilliant!.....Even brian may seems in awe of those early freddie songs......And love of my life is one of the best love songs lryically and musically ever written. One more thing.....Freddie never said that Lryics were his weakest point, or part of his game....He Just said it was the tougest part of writing for him, it doesn't mean he wasn't happy with the end result. It just gave him trouble.
Oberon
mike hunt wrote: i don't think the lryics for delilah were bad, Actually charming if anything. The music in the song was lacking though. It is all opinion, we know that. The reason i like freds lryics a little better than brian (surprise surprise) is because they're not so simple, you have to guess what the hell this guy is talking about. I personally love the fact that fans still debate what Bo rhap was about, or the crazy lryics to Fairyfeller's Masterstroke, Which i think were brillant. I still wonder what the hell some of the lryics in march of the black queen were about...Where the hell did this guy come up with this stuff?....My fairy king?.....Some may say silly or confusing, I say fucking brilliant!.....Even brian may seems in awe of those early freddie songs......And love of my life is one of the best love songs lryically and musically ever written. One more thing.....Freddie never said that Lryics were his weakest point, or part of his game....He Just said it was the tougest part of writing for him, it doesn't mean he wasn't happy with the end result. It just gave him trouble.
I actually listened to Delilah the other day and loved it. I thought the guitar work was actually really good. I mean it's an obvious thing to make the guitar sound like a cat, but I defy any other guitarist to do it with the "style" that Brian did.
It's funny, because I always absorb the music first and lyrics later, sometime much later. I've got friends who have commented on lyrics and I've thought "wow, I've never realised that lyric was like that". I'm much more into the music, and sometimes the lyrics just lodge in my brain without me really analysing the meaning at all
I do agree about some of Fred's lyrics on the first 2/3 albums. I don't think they bettered them in their whole career just for being so interesting
I actually listened to Delilah the other day and loved it. I thought the guitar work was actually really good. I mean it's an obvious thing to make the guitar sound like a cat, but I defy any other guitarist to do it with the "style" that Brian did.
It's funny, because I always absorb the music first and lyrics later, sometime much later. I've got friends who have commented on lyrics and I've thought "wow, I've never realised that lyric was like that". I'm much more into the music, and sometimes the lyrics just lodge in my brain without me really analysing the meaning at all
I do agree about some of Fred's lyrics on the first 2/3 albums. I don't think they bettered them in their whole career just for being so interesting
Sebastian
> Except everything you said IS a matter of opinion.
Yes. Can you read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> Contrasting it to the ages of three brothers is absurd,
No, it's not: if his lyrics are good (IMO of course), but his arrangements are way better (IMO of course), and his harmony, rhythm, form and melody are better (IMO of course), then (IMO of course) lyrics are his weakest point, the same way the 70-YO brother is the youngest if all of the others are older.
> that's fact, however saying that Freddie was a better composer and arranger than he was as a lyricist (and using the adjective you did) is entirely subjective.
Of course it is. Are you able to read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> It also doesn't matter what Freddie said.
Of course it matters. It's HIS abilities we're talking about, so of course what HE thought carries some weight. It doesn't mean you've GOT to agree with him, but it's NOT the same as it NOT mattering.
> He may believe that his lyrics was his weakest point, that doesn't mean that others have to agree with him.
But that doesn't mean that it DOESN'T matter what he said.
> This whole thing is subjective
Of course it is. Are you capable to read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> Similarly, the examples of songs you used are subjective.
Of course they are. Are you able to read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> Freddie never said that Lryics were his weakest point
'I think my melodies are superior to my lyrics' (Circus Mag, '77). So he DID say they were his weakest point.
> He Just said it was the tougest part of writing for him,
He did say that, AND he also said they were his weakest point.
Yes. Can you read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> Contrasting it to the ages of three brothers is absurd,
No, it's not: if his lyrics are good (IMO of course), but his arrangements are way better (IMO of course), and his harmony, rhythm, form and melody are better (IMO of course), then (IMO of course) lyrics are his weakest point, the same way the 70-YO brother is the youngest if all of the others are older.
> that's fact, however saying that Freddie was a better composer and arranger than he was as a lyricist (and using the adjective you did) is entirely subjective.
Of course it is. Are you able to read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> It also doesn't matter what Freddie said.
Of course it matters. It's HIS abilities we're talking about, so of course what HE thought carries some weight. It doesn't mean you've GOT to agree with him, but it's NOT the same as it NOT mattering.
> He may believe that his lyrics was his weakest point, that doesn't mean that others have to agree with him.
But that doesn't mean that it DOESN'T matter what he said.
> This whole thing is subjective
Of course it is. Are you capable to read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> Similarly, the examples of songs you used are subjective.
Of course they are. Are you able to read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message!
> Freddie never said that Lryics were his weakest point
'I think my melodies are superior to my lyrics' (Circus Mag, '77). So he DID say they were his weakest point.
> He Just said it was the tougest part of writing for him,
He did say that, AND he also said they were his weakest point.
Amazon
Sebastian wrote: "Yes. Can you read? That was the first thing I wrote in that message:"
Give me a break! Don't you dare accuse me of not reading! You wrote "OF course it's all a matter of opinion here, but" and "you've got three brothers, aged 70, 100 and 102, the one who's 70-YO is the 'youngest' of them all, even if he's not a teenager, let alone a baby. Same here: Fred's lyrics weren't bad, but they were far inferior to his music."
Instead of spouting nonsence, like asking me if I can read, perhaps you yourself can read what you wrote! I will ask you what you asked me so politely, Can you read?
In retropsect, I should have realised that this wasn't worth it and not respond to your post.
Give me a break! Don't you dare accuse me of not reading! You wrote "OF course it's all a matter of opinion here, but" and "you've got three brothers, aged 70, 100 and 102, the one who's 70-YO is the 'youngest' of them all, even if he's not a teenager, let alone a baby. Same here: Fred's lyrics weren't bad, but they were far inferior to his music."
Instead of spouting nonsence, like asking me if I can read, perhaps you yourself can read what you wrote! I will ask you what you asked me so politely, Can you read?
In retropsect, I should have realised that this wasn't worth it and not respond to your post.
Sebastian
The 'maths' thing was added to clear that, even with lyrics being his 'weakest' point (IMO, of course, as it's stated in the first line of the message), it doesn't mean they were 'weak' or 'bad' (just like a 70-YO youngest brother isn't a teen, a child or a baby). It was not put to suggest or imply Fred's 'strongest' or 'weakest' creative points were not a matter of opinion.
Again: can you read?
Again: can you read?
Amazon
Sebastian wrote: "The 'maths' thing was added to clear that, even with lyrics being his 'weakest' point (IMO, of course, as it's stated in the first line of the message), it doesn't mean they were 'weak' or 'bad' (just like a 70-YO youngest brother isn't a teen, a child or a baby). It was not put to suggest or imply Fred's 'strongest' or 'weakest' creative points were not a matter of opinion."
Right. Whatever you say. I guess you won’t have any problem if I used that analogy in the context of Brian being only Queen’s second best guitarist.
"Again: can you read?" You're such a nice guy. Whatever. I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting you), it is possible to explain what you meant without being so defensive and rude. But that's up to you.
I will simply end with this, and this will be my last comment on this-
of course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:
Freddie's views do not matter in the slightest.
Right. Whatever you say. I guess you won’t have any problem if I used that analogy in the context of Brian being only Queen’s second best guitarist.
"Again: can you read?" You're such a nice guy. Whatever. I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting you), it is possible to explain what you meant without being so defensive and rude. But that's up to you.
I will simply end with this, and this will be my last comment on this-
of course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:
Freddie's views do not matter in the slightest.
Winter Land Man
ALL of Brian's Queen songs in which he performs the lead vocals, plus John's 'Misfire' and 'If You Can't Beat Them', and Freddie's 'Don't Try Suicide'
mike hunt
Blue Roses Unlimited wrote: ALL of Brian's Queen songs in which he performs the lead vocals, plus John's 'Misfire' and 'If You Can't Beat Them', and Freddie's 'Don't Try Suicide'
I forgot what the orginal thread was about. i agree with those, but misfire I liked lryically.
I forgot what the orginal thread was about. i agree with those, but misfire I liked lryically.
Sebastian
> I guess you won’t have any problem if I used that analogy in the context of Brian being only Queen’s second best guitarist.
Of course I won't. If you think Roger, John or Freddie are better guitarists than Brian, then it's your opinion. I may disagree (I would) but that's why it's an opinion anyway.
> You're such a nice guy.
As a matter of fact I am. I reckon you might be as well. But both points have nothing to do with this topic.
> I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting
you)
False: about 5-10 people have misinterpreted me in the last month or so. The world population is 6,819,800,000 (estimated by the US Census Bureau for 9th May 2010). 5-10 people is only 0.000000146631866% of 'everyone'. The remaining 99.9999998534% of 'everyone' has not misinterpreted me.
> it is possible to explain what you meant without being so defensive and rude.
Being defensive or rude would be insulting your family, your country, your gender, your religion, your ethnic group, your blood type, etc.. I simply asked if you can read and, TBH, I still wonder.
> of course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:Freddie's views do not matter in the slightest.
Neither do yours, neither do mine. So?
Of course I won't. If you think Roger, John or Freddie are better guitarists than Brian, then it's your opinion. I may disagree (I would) but that's why it's an opinion anyway.
> You're such a nice guy.
As a matter of fact I am. I reckon you might be as well. But both points have nothing to do with this topic.
> I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting
you)
False: about 5-10 people have misinterpreted me in the last month or so. The world population is 6,819,800,000 (estimated by the US Census Bureau for 9th May 2010). 5-10 people is only 0.000000146631866% of 'everyone'. The remaining 99.9999998534% of 'everyone' has not misinterpreted me.
> it is possible to explain what you meant without being so defensive and rude.
Being defensive or rude would be insulting your family, your country, your gender, your religion, your ethnic group, your blood type, etc.. I simply asked if you can read and, TBH, I still wonder.
> of course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:Freddie's views do not matter in the slightest.
Neither do yours, neither do mine. So?
Holly2003
Sebastian wrote:
> I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting
you)
False: about 5-10 people have misinterpreted me in the last month or so. The world population is 6,819,800,000 (estimated by the US Census Bureau for 9th May 2010). 5-10 people is only 0.000000146631866% of 'everyone'. The remaining 99.9999998534% of 'everyone' has not misinterpreted me.
Mr Logic strikes again...
> I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting
you)
False: about 5-10 people have misinterpreted me in the last month or so. The world population is 6,819,800,000 (estimated by the US Census Bureau for 9th May 2010). 5-10 people is only 0.000000146631866% of 'everyone'. The remaining 99.9999998534% of 'everyone' has not misinterpreted me.
Mr Logic strikes again...
Sebastian
So does Mr I-hate-Seb-but-I'm-obsessed-with-him.
Amazon
Sebastian wrote:" > I guess you won’t have any problem if I used that analogy in the context of Brian being only Queen’s second best guitarist.
Of course I won't. If you think Roger, John or Freddie are better guitarists than Brian, then it's your opinion. I may disagree (I would) but that's why it's an opinion anyway."
Obviously, you completely missed why I wrote that.
" "You're such a nice guy."
"As a matter of fact I am. I reckon you might be as well. But both points have nothing to do with this topic."
Two things. One, I'm not a guy (with my username, I would imagine it's pretty obvious), but two, I was being sarcastic. While I have no idea how nice of a guy you are, aggressively asking someone if they can read does not show that you are a nice guy. Not that you would care.
" "I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting you"
False: about 5-10 people have misinterpreted me in the last month or so. The world population is 6,819,800,000 (estimated by the US Census Bureau for 9th May 2010). 5-10 people is only 0.000000146631866% of 'everyone'. The remaining 99.9999998534% of 'everyone' has not misinterpreted me."
Honestly, I couldn't care less about this. I exaggerated. Do you really think I meant EVERYONE?
" "it is possible to explain what you meant without being so defensive and rude."
"Being defensive or rude would be insulting your family, your country, your gender, your religion, your ethnic group, your blood type, etc.. I simply asked if you can read and, TBH, I still wonder."
No, being defensive could also be asking someone aggressively 'can you read' instead of explaining why they misinterpreted you (if they did.) Similarly, being rude could also mean aggressively asking someone 'can you read'? It's subjective, and I think you were being defensive and rude.
Don't get me wrong. It's not that important to me. I'm not a frail little girl, and while I don't expect you to care, for what it's worth, I do think you were being defensive and rude. But in answer to your question, yes I can; perhaps better than you would like. In fact, probably alot of people read your posts better than you would like them to.
" "of course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:Freddie's views do not matter in the slightest."
"Neither do yours, neither do mine. So?" So you completely missed why I wrote it. Do you not see why the use of 'it's all a matter of opinion here, but:' can come across as meaning anything but that? (The reason I used this example was in response to your earlier post in which you said something like of course it matters what Freddie thinks, but that was secondary.)
Of course I won't. If you think Roger, John or Freddie are better guitarists than Brian, then it's your opinion. I may disagree (I would) but that's why it's an opinion anyway."
Obviously, you completely missed why I wrote that.
" "You're such a nice guy."
"As a matter of fact I am. I reckon you might be as well. But both points have nothing to do with this topic."
Two things. One, I'm not a guy (with my username, I would imagine it's pretty obvious), but two, I was being sarcastic. While I have no idea how nice of a guy you are, aggressively asking someone if they can read does not show that you are a nice guy. Not that you would care.
" "I know what I read, and if you think that you're being misinterpreted (funnily enough, everyone seems to be misinterpreting you"
False: about 5-10 people have misinterpreted me in the last month or so. The world population is 6,819,800,000 (estimated by the US Census Bureau for 9th May 2010). 5-10 people is only 0.000000146631866% of 'everyone'. The remaining 99.9999998534% of 'everyone' has not misinterpreted me."
Honestly, I couldn't care less about this. I exaggerated. Do you really think I meant EVERYONE?
" "it is possible to explain what you meant without being so defensive and rude."
"Being defensive or rude would be insulting your family, your country, your gender, your religion, your ethnic group, your blood type, etc.. I simply asked if you can read and, TBH, I still wonder."
No, being defensive could also be asking someone aggressively 'can you read' instead of explaining why they misinterpreted you (if they did.) Similarly, being rude could also mean aggressively asking someone 'can you read'? It's subjective, and I think you were being defensive and rude.
Don't get me wrong. It's not that important to me. I'm not a frail little girl, and while I don't expect you to care, for what it's worth, I do think you were being defensive and rude. But in answer to your question, yes I can; perhaps better than you would like. In fact, probably alot of people read your posts better than you would like them to.
" "of course it's all a matter of opinion here, but:Freddie's views do not matter in the slightest."
"Neither do yours, neither do mine. So?" So you completely missed why I wrote it. Do you not see why the use of 'it's all a matter of opinion here, but:' can come across as meaning anything but that? (The reason I used this example was in response to your earlier post in which you said something like of course it matters what Freddie thinks, but that was secondary.)