I, too, am digging this thread.
I'm personally of the opinion that North America has the better overall remasters, the 1991 Hollywood Records remasters, which are reasonably priced for the casual or "not-so-hard-core" fan (plus they contain the remastered bonus tracks). I hope no one reading this thread thinks we're in anyway saying those or others are complete crap and that they have to re-buy the entire catalogue. We're just gauging the relative quality, though some do feel individual remastered albums sound poor (Live Killers in a previous post and I've heard some people think lowly of The Works, Magic and Innuendo albums from the 2001 Remasters are not done well, but we'll get to those).
Now, to continue our examination, here is A Day At The Races:
00) A Day At The Races Fanfare* (1991 HR)
01) Tie Your Mother Down (Single Version) (2008 SC)
02) You Take My Breath Away (1991 HR)
03) Long Away (1991 HR)
04) The Millionaire Waltz (1991 HR)
05) You And I (2008 SC)
06) Somebody To Love (2008 SC)
07) White Man (2008 SC)
08) Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy (2008 SC)
09) Drowse (1991 HR)
10) Teo Torriate (2006 High Definition Mix)**
* This is what I've long called the "intro" to the album. Technically, it's not part of the song, despite not being credited on the album, which I always thought was a shame. It deserves it's own name, seeing as it does the same thing "Procession" does for Queen II. It's a very easy edit, if you're ambitious enough to make the cut. Separating it and including the Single Version of TYMD from the Singles Collection 1 allows us to use the superior (IMO) remaster of TYMD.
** Some might argue that this is a "remix," but in all the ways which matter, it's not, despite having "Mix" at the end of its name. There is nothing new or changed in this version, it was simply cleaned up with Protools for Jewel II. It sounds AMAZING to me and benefits us here by retaining the entire album outro (the Fanfare reprise, as it were).
Sidetracking ever so slightly....
What's interesting about Seven Seas Of Rhye is the way it's constructed.
I started doing my own surround sound stereo upmixes a number of years back and Seven Seas is one of those few tracks that was initially mixed in such a way that the "vocal cut" process doesn't work very well on it (ironically, the 70's albums are fantastic for the vocal cut tool, while the 80's albums shockingly don't work so well).
However, if I take the maxed out mix used on "Queen Rocks", I get much better results with the vocal cut tool. It doesn;t strip the vocals so much, but it does highlight more instrumentation that gives my rear speakers something different to play.
Coming back then, the one major difference I find between the Japanese remasters and the Hollywood Records remasters is the amount of bass present on the Japanese, which the HR's seem to be lacking.
Final thought for this thread.
Should I dig out my original vinyl and do a capture of a track to have a wav form comparison to look at, or is it pointless?
@ Brians wig... i don't think it's pointless. I'd certainly be curious to see how the vinyl waveform compares to others i've been looking at from later CD versions...
Any particular track?
BW: are these original vinyls, issued the same year the album was first released? I'd say something from the 70's for sure... i'm about to do Killer Queen next in my waveform comparisons, how about that one?
also, Rhye - COMPLETELY agree about Teo Torriatte high def mix... i think that sounds AMAZING, and to me it proves (along with things like I Can't Live With You (rocks retake) and even I Was Born To Love You (MIH)) that Queen could greatly improve Inneundo and probably other things as well with some work...
News Of The World is up next:
01) We Will Rock You (2008 SC)
02) We Are The Champions (2008 SC)
03) Sheer Heart Attack (2008 SC)
04) All Dead, All Dead (1991 HR)
05) Spread Your Wings (2008 SC)
06) Fight From The Inside (1991 HR)
07) Get Down, Make Love (1991 HR)
08) Sleeping On The Sidewalk (1991 HR)
09) Who Needs You (1991 HR)
10) It's Late (1991 HR)*
11) My Melancholy Blues (1991 HR)
* Be sure you don't include the Error Version, which appears on early pressings of the 1991 HR re-issue. It's been fixed on later pressings.
Continuing my waveform assessment of the various Peter Mew remasters available (and I will post a full summary at the end of this to succinctly show the progressive amounts of dynamic compression / loudness among each of PM's three remasters): Here is Killer Queen: (another anomaly)
Again the version that appears to be the closest to the dynamic range of the original master, is the CJ 1998 version. Not a weak specimen by any stretch (its peak levels are right around 90% of the loudness capable on the CD). Next is the Singles Collection version, which so far has been the MOST compressed of these tracks in question. with KQ, it appears the peak level is unchanged, but the dynamic range has been normalized a little bit. The quietest parts have been "brought forward" to even out / compress the track (which is a misleading term because even though it is technically LIMITING frequency levels, the end effect is actually a loudening, rather than a minimization).
And the most effected version of the three is the 2001 JP remaster, which in relation to the Singles Collection version adds overall dynamic compression for even more sonic normalization throughout the track, as well as a slight boost in overall peak volume.
this is very intriguing to me - and Rhye, this is your thread and i'm not trying to divert it or undermine it any way. if anything, it's made me realize that even for a given SERIES of remasters, which i would have thought would bear the particular tastes and consistent style of the one mastering, there isn't perfect consistency. I'm a HUGE fan of the SC remasters, but now I see that there may be different versions of certain tracks that I prefer to them. Personally, I can't wait to create my own DEFINITIVE BEST when i find the time to actually do SOUND tests of these versions. And I may find myself dipping back into the 1991 HR editions for certain songs, as Rhye suggests, for the best aural experience.
I may be exposing the variations in mastering (from finesse to heavy-handedness) but your ears and mine are going to be the final judges.
gonna go ahead and do Now I'm Here too, since it's the only other track in question from SHA:
CJ 1998 comes in the mildest once again, with the peaks hitting around 85+% (the top peak being the downbeat hit right around 3:15 in the track) and there's a fairly clear build of overall volume as the song progresses. Next is the 2001 JP remaster, with just a little peak volume boost, and a subtle amount of dynamic compression. Again looks like about a 10% increase in level and a good boost in even volume density throughout.
now here's where it got interesting, and for this track, Peter Mew is undoubtedly right in his memory... the SC version is virtually IDENTICAL to the 2001 JP remaster. With all the certainty my experience affords me, the SC master of Now I'm Here was taken straight from the 2001 JP remasters. (not that that's bad in any way - just a confirmation of information).
more to come...
joesilvey wrote:
BW: are these original vinyls, issued the same year the album was first released? I'd say something from the 70's for sure... i'm about to do Killer Queen next in my waveform comparisons, how about that one?
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They are. They were bought at the time of release and I don't think they've ever been played (honestly!).
It's sad I know, but as much as I now want to play them I don't really want to, but I'll manage a track purely for this thread :)
rhyeking wrote:
* Be sure you don't include the Error Version, which appears on early pressings of the 1991 HR re-issue. It's been fixed on later pressings.
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Have ALL the original errors been fixed on later pressing?
The three I know of are:
In The Lap In The Gods (missing like two bars in the intro)
It's Late (the first few notes cut off)
I Want It All (wrong Master used for the HR remaster, missing part of the chorus)
As far as I know, the first two have been corrected, thought I'm not 100% certain of "Lap Of The Gods". I still own the Error Versions of the CDs and never bothered replacing them beyond downloading the Correct Versions years later.
I don't think HR has fixed "The Miracle" album, seeing as the Queen camp only recently acknowledged the wrong original master was used.
Alright, sorry for the late sort-of conclusion for the "debate" about the Fairy King glitch - whether it exists on some remasters or not. I got a vague reply from our mixer, who also did not hear anything unusual on a quick listening. So, I don't know how concentrated you have to be to hear it, or how good equipment you have to have to be able to discern the stuff I still claim to hear, or in how good condition your hearing has to in order to be able to hear it. Anyway, I still believe there IS a difference in different releases, but I have no idea which versions differ, because the one at Spotify is credited to be the 1994 remaster, which I can't honestly say actually is, because I've heard the 1994 remaster. Strangely enough, I've played the two clips in tandem to a few of my non-musician type friends, who all did hear "something" different. So, whatever the conclusion, I'm drawing myself out of this discussion, because I just stopped giving a damn, and have nothing more to offer.
It's an interesting topic, though. Have fun with it, yawl.
@ Rhyeking - on your list of 1998 or 2001 PM remasters... you didn't include the I'm In Love With My Car b-side to BoRhap. i thought the b-side version was the album version?
joesilvey wrote: @ Rhyeking - on your list of 1998 or 2001 PM remasters... you didn't include the I'm In Love With My Car b-side to BoRhap. i thought the b-side version was the album version, which would qualify for my comparisons, right?
just wanted to clarify as I get ready to do ANATO... If you do need to add it, just change it on your post that contains the listing, and let me know. i'll edit this post to continue with the ANATO info... thanks...
The UK B-side of "I'm In Love With My Car" is a unique version of the song, essentially with the car revving which appears at the end of the album version being placed at the beginning and the reprise after the fade out is absent. If you have Queen Rocks, the version on there has the beginning of the UK Single Version and the end (reprise) of the Album Version.
In 2004, the UK Single Version of IILWMC was remastered by Miles Showell (not Peter Mew, as I mistakenly noted previous. The liner notes say the three bonus tracks were by Showell and not Mew. Mew did the 17 'regular' tracks).
HOWEVER, Peter Mew appears to have remastered the UK Single Version for the 2008 Singles Collection.
So, for the UK Single Version of IILWMC there are two recent remasters:
2004 = Miles Showell
2008 = Peter Mew
The most recent remaster of the album version would be Bob Ludwig's in 2005 for the 30th Anniversary CD/DVD set.
Because of my mistaking the 2004 Showelll remaster for a 2004 Peter Mew remaster (which doesn't exist), I'm adding to the previous post the 2008 Peter Mew remaster of "I'm In Love With My Car (UK Single Version)."
I hope that all makes sense.
understood - and since IILWMC doesn't fit the qualification of the other thrice remastered tracks I've been looking at, we'll leave it in its own category. Thanks for the clarification...
So then, let's have a look at the variations in Peter Mew's remastering of the (4) ANATO tracks:
Among the three DEATH ON TWO LEGS versions, all have some moderate dynamic compression - so i wouldn't suspect any of these sound just like the original vinyl masters as far as dynamic range. Lowest overall peak volume is Crown Jewels again, but interestly, the next loudest is Singles Collection, which seems to have greater overall peak volume, but less heavy dynamic compression. There is more variation in the peaks, and the intro section (first 39 seconds or so) is a good bit QUIETER on the SC version. The loudest is the JP 2001 remaster, which appears to be the peaks / compression levels of the SC, though boosted to the top of the CD's volume capability (and the intro section is not subdued in the JP version - but pushed up to match the maximum of the rest of the song.
BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY... this time the 98 Crown Jewels master was clearly used for the Singles Collection - they're virtually identical. They both have a wide dynamic range - as is vital to a song like this. Surprisingly, the only noticeable difference is that the CJ version has perhaps a 2% or so volume increase in some of the peaks throughout. It appears as though a more precise limiter may have been used as a final touch on the SC version.... The different one is the JP 2001 remaster - still keeping a wide dynamic range (especially by today's music standards) it boosts the peaks to the max of the CD. This is the version that was supposedly used for the WWRY edition of the Greatest Hits - and reportedly is also rid of hum and tape hiss that were apparent on "all previous versions" of this track...BUT
I just listened closely to the intros of these three versions, and I can clearly hear the hum and tape hiss on the CJ version, the JP 2001 version, but NOT on the Singles Collection version. Of course, then i had to go check my HR Platinum Collection GH1 disc, and no hum or hiss there either. But its waveform looks like the SC / CJ versions rather than the maxed JP version. Then I checked the Bob Ludwig ANATO 30th Anniversary set, and the tape hiss is BIG on that one. I do hear the hum as well, though it's a bit less noticeable than the other instances in which is appears.
With such an important song to Queen's history and their popularity... it's amazing to me that so many variations in quality exist among even the REMASTERED and currently in-print versions available... YMBF and 39 up next...
joesilvey wrote:
BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY... this time the 98 Crown Jewels master was clearly used for the Singles Collection - they're virtually identical. They both have a wide dynamic range - as is vital to a song like this. Surprisingly, the only noticeable difference is that the CJ version has perhaps a 2% or so volume increase in some of the peaks throughout. It appears as though a more precise limiter may have been used as a final touch on the SC version.... The different one is the JP 2001 remaster - still keeping a wide dynamic range (especially by today's music standards) it boosts the peaks to the max of the CD. This is the version that was supposedly used for the WWRY edition of the Greatest Hits - and reportedly is also rid of hum and tape hiss that were apparent on "all previous versions" of this track...BUT
I just listened closely to the intros of these three versions, and I can clearly hear the hum and tape hiss on the CJ version, the JP 2001 version, but NOT on the Singles Collection version. Of course, then i had to go check my HR Platinum Collection GH1 disc, and no hum or hiss there either. But its waveform looks like the SC / CJ versions rather than the maxed JP version. Then I checked the Bob Ludwig ANATO 30th Anniversary set, and the tape hiss is BIG on that one. I do hear the hum as well, though it's a bit less noticeable than the other instances in which is appears.
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So you're saying the 1998 Crown Jewels Remaster had the hiss and hum cleaned/filtered/removed/"fixed" for the 2004 GH:WWRY Ed. and THAT version was used by PM on the 2008 Singles Collection?
I look forward to YMBF...
