A Mosque at Ground Zero?

GratefulFan - I was referring to the "many incidents" that became public in Germany in the last year. Much the same happened in Ireland, btw: we learn about child abuse committed by Catholic priests in the 1960s, 1970s,1980s which are statute-barred, so the offender must not fear to be prosecuted by law. We learn that in many cases the church knew about the abuse but the offenders were not reported to the police but they were sent to another place - often with other children at their mercy.

I know that sexual abuse in families happens much more frequently but that was not the topic here. Children must be protected everywhere and unfortunately much too many are not safe in their families, in school, in churches, I am sure we agree on that. I am not anti-Catholic, I am anti-hypocrisy. In the USA the church paid money to the victims, that does not happen in Europe - maybe because in the USA criminal offenses do not become statute-barred so easily. There is not a single case of the church reporting a priest to the jurisdiction - they always protected the child abuser.  In Germany over 200 000 people have left the church after  this outrageous behaviour became public just this year. It's the chuch members who feel mostly betrayed by this.  The pope lost much of his authority by failing to address the child abuse cases in more uncertain terms. He did release a half-hearted "sorry" after people started to actually flee the church by the thousands.

Amazon wrote:

>If you do not believe in a theistic God, then it does not matter what you believe (as opposed to what you don't believe) since we weren't discussing God in general.

*You* weren't discussing God in general.  Who put you in charge here to decide what can be discussed?  Much of this discussion has been about beliefs.  You just didn't like the way I spoke about your beliefs and responded by labeling me as a bigot who simply hates religion.  And now you continue to relegate anything you don't approve of to "word game" status.  It's actually quite hilarious that you're basically trying to ridicule me for my beliefs without even knowing what they are.  The fact that you a) assumed I was an atheist and b) said you don't care what my beliefs are since they're not "relevant to the discussion" is all that one needs to know about your attitude towards people who believe in different things than you do.

"Considering how you've constantly ridiculed those who believe in God, and have essentially stated multiple times that you don't believe that God exists, it is not unreasonable to presume that you don't believe in God!"

I never said I don't believe in God.  I just don't believe in what you and other theistic people define God to be.  This is an important distinction that you're obviously not understanding, because you continue to use the word "God" as if the term is exclusive to your chosen definition of what the concept of God means to you.  You don't have a monopoly on the term.

Sir GH wrote: "*You* weren't discussing God in general. Who put you in charge here to decide what can be discussed?"

I never said I was in charge. I was only going by what YOU were discussing. You started it; and during the discussion, you continued to focus on one area. Don't blame me because I was staying on-topic (a topic which you originated.) You really are desperate if you think that the stupid and immature 'who put you in charge?' is going to work. What are you, five?

"Much of this discussion has been about beliefs."

Except you never spoke about your beliefs. You simply criticised/attacked my beliefs. Don't blame me if I presume what you believe, or don't believe, based on what you write.

"You just didn't like the way I spoke about your beliefs and responded by labeling me as a bigot who simply hates religion."

Except you are. I don't know if you hate religion or organised religion, but you hate one of them, and you are certainly a bigot.

"And now you continue to relegate anything you don't approve of to "word game" status."

Nonsence. I relegate things to 'word game' stuatus, which ARE word games! Even this post of yours is one extended word game.

"It's actually quite hilarious that you're basically trying to ridicule me for my beliefs without even knowing what they are."

Two comments. One, it is NOT me who is ridiculing the other for their beliefs.

Two, you never stated what your beliefs are! You simply criticised/attacked/ridiculed my beliefs. It is therefore reasonable, based on that, to presume what you don't believe!!!

"The fact that you a) assumed I was an atheist"

Well, it is a fair assumption. My god, if you say that you think that Robert Plant had a great voice, should I not presume that that you are a Plant fan?!

It is pretty reasonable based on what you write to presume that you don't believe in a theistic God. You may not like the term athiest, but unless you state what you believe in or not, it is reasonable to presume that you are one.

When you were listing all of the atrocities committed in the name of God, and then asked how many had been committed by athiests, and said something like 'case closed', it was not unreasonable to presume that you are an athiest!!! That is just one example. I don't know if you are being deliberately dishonest, stubborn or have some other motive for this nonsence, but it won't work.

"and b) said you don't care what my beliefs are since they're not "relevant to the discussion""

A discussion which you originated, and in which you could have talked about your beliefs. At any time!

"is all that one needs to know about your attitude towards people who believe in different things than you do."

Right. Whatever you say. Yet again, you prove that you're a hypocrite. I don't need to be told by you, of all people, what attitude I have towards people who believe in different things to me. I know what attitude you have, and I am thankful that my attitude does not come close.

BTW I said that I couldn't care less what your beliefs are because I have no obligation to be polite to you anymore. You've shown your true colours, and I'm not impressed.

"I never said I don't believe in God. I just don't believe in what you and other theistic people define God to be.'

Fine, except this is what the discussion was about!!!

"This is an important distinction that you're obviously not understanding"

LOL. Forgive me if I'm not particularly insulted by whether you think that I'm understanding it or not. You are nowhere nearly as intelligent as you think you are, and I couldn't care less what you think about my intellect.

"because you continue to use the word "God" as if the term is exclusive to your chosen definition of what the concept of God means to you."

Right. Except here's the thing. You started the discussion, you asked me questions about a theistic God (such as 'would God still exist if every follower died?'), you never widened the discussion to talk about God in a wider sense, and since I was responding to you, I can only go by what you were talking about! That you would retrospectively bring up the definion of God, when it never occured to you before, is another word game of yours!!!

"You don't have a monopoly on the term."

LOL. Remind me, who started the discussion?

GH, that you would yet again resort to playing word games is unsurprising. You have nothing else to fall back on.

you are too losing this debate ....... shake his hand and leave

andreas_mercury wrote: you are too losing this debate ....... shake his hand and leave

Are you speaking to me? Whatever.

but GH is right you are babbling on about the tolerance of other beliefs and you dont care about his beliefs

are you saying we only be tolerant when people are nice to us?  thats not too very genuine way to live life ........  either be tolerant all the time or not because any thing else is just fake ..

andreas_mercury wrote: "but GH is right you are babbling on about the tolerance of other beliefs and you dont care about his beliefs"


Oh, please. Considering that the discussion does not concern you, who are you to comment?

Judging a discussion from afar, and coming in after a few posts does not mean you have special knowledge of whom is right or not (and nor does it mean that people care whom you think is right or not).

You don't know what I've been 'babbling' about (what a typically silly comment from you), you can't know whether GH is right or not, and quite frankly, it's none of your business.

Just so you know, mercury, considering your various contributions, you have nether the moral right nor the intellectual capability to judge anyone!

"are you saying we only be tolerant when people are nice to us? thats not too very genuine way to live life ........ either be tolerant all the time or not because any thing else is just fake .."

I'm simply saying that I don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. I don't have to be tolerant of GH's intolerance, and I certainly don't have to be tolerant of your intolerance!

"Considering that the discussion does not concern you"

doesn't concern me??     beliefs concern every human on the planet from the smartest to the dumbest .......  it is all of our right no matter who we are and no matter what you think of me Andreas the guy of treasure moment, it is still my right to an opinion and to say it .......  who made you the boss to the forum

"Judging a discussion from afar, and coming in after a few posts does not mean you have special knowledge of whom is right or not"

but i am more objective because i am not you people, have you never even heard of the word "mediate" there is a reason to pay a 3rd person to come in to mediate and not get the two people of an argument to do it ...

"you have nether the moral right nor the intellectual capability to judge anyone"

now i really do laugh .  look at your earlier comments to the thread to find out why.  xD

"I'm simply saying that I don't have to be tolerant of intolerance"

you are a simple minded fool then because to live in tolerance is to accept everything.  if you cant live life of tolerance then stop asking for it from every person you meet.....

andreas_mercury wrote:
"Considering that the discussion does not concern you"


"doesn't concern me?? beliefs concern every human on the planet from the smartest to the dumbest ......."

Good for you. However, I was actually referring to a discussion between myself and GH, if you care to read.

"it is all of our right no matter who we are and no matter what you think of me Andreas the guy of treasure moment, it is still my right to an opinion and to say it ......."

Just as I have the right to respond to you any way I deem fit.

"who made you the boss to the forum"

How childish. Do you really think that because you have the right to express your opinion, you also have the right to demand that I respond to it in a way which pleases you?

"but i am more objective because i am not you people, have you never even heard of the word "mediate"

Two comments. One, I don't recall asking for a mediator.

Two, if I did, I wouldn't look to you. I wouldn't look to you for anything, least of all guidance!

"there is a reason to pay a 3rd person to come in to mediate and not get the two people of an argument to do it ..."

Uh, who's paying you? Who asked you? I don't need nor desire your opinion on this, or any other topic.

Do you really think that simply because you express your 'objective' opinion (lol), other people should care about it? You have a pretty high opinion of yourself.

"you have nether the moral right nor the intellectual capability to judge anyone"

"now i really do laugh . look at your earlier comments to the thread to find out why. xD"

Good for you. The fact remains that you are a bigoted fool. You're just an unpleasant creature.

"I'm simply saying that I don't have to be tolerant of intolerance"

"you are a simple minded fool then because to live in tolerance is to accept everything."

LOL! No, mercury, the only simple minded fool is you. So to live in tolerance means that should accept everything? Does that include abuse? Racism? Homophobia? What about hate speech?

mercury, you are nothing but a dumb child, and for you to call me a simple minded fool proves what an idiot you truly are. You don't have the intellect to call ANYONE a simple minded fool!

"if you cant live life of tolerance then stop asking for it from every person you meet....."

Uh, I don't ask for it from every person I meet. All I ask for is that stupid trolls such as yourself go back into the cave you crawled out of.

"So to live in tolerance means that should accept everything?"

what other choice do you have in this life?  you write many bullshit posts but i accept them because this can't be changed, and the other way is true.

"However, I was actually referring to a discussion between myself and GH, if you care to read"

no, a public thread to a public forum actually.  anyone can write in this and that is a fact .....   so  sad for you

andreas_mercury wrote: ""So to live in tolerance means that should accept everything?"


"what other choice do you have in this life?

If you truly believe that being tolerant means accepting everything, you are even more of a stupid idiot than I had thought. Yet again, you set a new record for stupidity.

"you write many bullshit posts but i accept them because this can't be changed, and the other way is true."

LOL. I write bullshit posts?! Well, as the king of bullshit posts you would know. Tell me, have you ever written a non-bullshit post? Ever?

Just about every post I have ever read of yours is bullshit. You are nothing but a stupid troll.

andreas_mercury wrote: "no, a public thread to a public forum actually."


So? It doesn't make you any less of a troll.

"anyone can write in this and that is a fact ....."

Good for you. I can also respond to you in any way I deem fit and that is a fact.

"so sad for you"

You sure are dumb. Sad? How is anything here sad? Other than you of course?

mercury, I have better things to do than to lower myself into the gutter and talk to trolls like you. This will probably be my last post on this thread, but regardless, I can't imagine I will be responding to you again. I shouldn't feed the troll.

was it the religion to make you such an ignorant bitch?   or are you born to be like that

So you're not only a troll, and a mentally challenged piece of shit, but you are also a misogynist like Skip? Is your name Skip?


Just so you know, resorting to abuse proves beyond any doubt that you are nothing but a stupid and repulsive troll. But then everyone knew that.