Songs unenshapened by Freddie's illness and death

My fingers just want to go to the 'o' instead of the 'i'. In much the same way, my fingers keep spelling 'beleive' the wrong way, even though I known how to spell it. I have the same problem with some songs on the guitar -- I know how to play Spirit of the Radio, for example, and some days I can do a passable effort, but most days my fingers keep taking me to the wrong place. Very frustrating.

I alway's thought  Roger's "you had to be there"  was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet.

Regor wrote: I always loved Hitman. Aggressive, unusual, kinda prog-metal and perhaps the heaviest song apart from SHA. And the lyrics also for me are maybe the clearest statement about his illness, perhaps more than Mother Love or TSMGO. Very significant, but also musically enjoyable, great solo in the long outro. One of my Top 10 Tracks.
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I always really liked Hitman too, right from the first listen.  Aggressive and unusual is a great way to put it. And those intriguing lyrics, punched out with such perfect dark glee. I think it's often too quickly dismissed.

mike hunt wrote: I alway's thought  Roger's "you had to be there"  was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet.
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Thanks for bringing this up.  Just gave it a listen and a lyric read through.  It seems maybe a little intense to me to be about Freddie.  Do you have a particular reason for thinking that?

Holly2003 wrote:My fingers just want to go to the 'o' instead of the 'i'. In much the same way, my fingers keep spelling 'beleive' the wrong way, even though I known how to spell it. I have the same problem with some songs on the guitar -- I know how to play Spirit of the Radio, for example, and some days I can do a passable effort, but most days my fingers keep taking me to the wrong place. Very frustrating.
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I bet a lot of people mess up believe. I have to backspace on that one with the very same error at least half the time I write it. Just remember there's no " I " in 'team' and there's no " O " in 'this', and you'll be alright.  There's also no "the" between 'Of' and 'Radio' in 'The Spirit of Radio', but it's very cool that you can play it, even sometimes.  Unless there's some song called 'Spirt of the Radio' that I know nothing about, in which case I don't know if it's cool that you can play it sometimes.  Every time I've typed 'spirit', including edits, I've typed 'spirt' and had to fix it.  What a sad pair.

I think I've edited this about 6 times.  Good thing most of you people are sleeping.

GratefulFan wrote: mike hunt wrote: I alway's thought  Roger's "you had to be there"  was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet.
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Thanks for bringing this up.  Just gave it a listen and a lyric read through.  It seems maybe a little intense to me to be about Freddie.  Do you have a particular reason for thinking that?

Yea, I'm pretty sure the song is about freddie.  roger was still in his greiving period when he wrote the song......Havn't listened to it for a long time, though it's one of those songs that has stayed with me over the years.  A Dark Reflective song that brings back a sad time not only for Queen but for myself, the early to mid 90's period.   Innuendo/Made in heaven got me through some tough times, both great albums.  anyway,   Some of the lryics that make me think it's about freddie are?....will listen to the song again and report back.........it's been a while since I heard it.

mike hunt wrote: GratefulFan wrote: mike hunt wrote: I alway's thought  Roger's "you had to be there"  was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet.
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Thanks for bringing this up.  Just gave it a listen and a lyric read through.  It seems maybe a little intense to me to be about Freddie.  Do you have a particular reason for thinking that?

Yea, I'm pretty sure the song is about freddie.  roger was still in his greiving period when he wrote the song......Havn't listened to it for a long time, though it's one of those songs that has stayed with me over the years.  A Dark Reflective song that brings back a sad time not only for Queen but for myself, the early to mid 90's period.   Innuendo/Made in heaven got me through some tough times, both great albums.  anyway,   Some of the lryics that make me think it's about freddie are?....will listen to the song again and report back.........it's been a while since I heard it.

....'.He mentions a man he met, the sweetest moments that I ever had  , most magical memories Ithat i recall.....When the man came out and complained in the  hall (I think he say's) when I met you, you had to be there!'.....So roger starts the song meeting this man who shared some of his favorite, best, most magical memories......Then the darkness sets in.........."..the darkest hour i ever lived, the longest fall i ever felt, then the sun went in, and the night was hell, when you left me, you had to be there! "    " the sweetest thoughts of happy day's that might come again, don't you're face, don't know you're name until we meet again, you have to be there"  Of course this could be a love song, but since roger mention's "the man he met who complained" I believe the songs about freddie.  i remember both brian and roger saying when they first met him he was alway's complaining about 'smiles" shows and how they could improve.   Just my own opinion about this underated song.

'You Had To Be There' is an underrated song for sure, but I don't think it's a Freddie-related song. It sounds more like the character in the song is lamenting an ended romantic relationship.

Here are the lyrics:

the sweetest moments
that i ever had
the most magic memories
that i recall

(when the man came out
and complained in the hall)
when i met you
when i met you
'you had to be there'

the darkest hour
that i ever lived
and the longest fall
that i ever fell

and the sun went in
and the night was hell
when you left me
when you left me
'you had to be there'

the sweeteset thoughts
that i entertain
are of happy days
that might come again

i don't know your face
i don't know your name
till we meet again
hope we meet again
'you have to be there'

It's an easy trap to fall into to think that every song is autobiographical, especially with Back To The Light and Happiness? coming out not long after Freddie's death and both containing genuine songs which express their feelings ("Nothin' But Blue" and "Old Friends"). I may be wrong, but this is likely just Roger being vague and clever and tongue-in-cheek. Note that the title is in quotes, referencing the common saying "You had to be there," as we have all tried to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it, because they were there ("Dude, that horse kicking him in the head was hiliarious! What?...no, dude, you had to be there! Seriously!"). Putting the phrase (and the title itself) in quotes implies that Roger is having a bit of fun, juxtiposing the seriousness of the rest of the lyrics with the throw-away 'you had to be there'.

As for songs influenced by Freddie's illness and passing, "Driven By You" was more directly influenced by that than a lot of other songs. I've heard of Brian asking Freddie if he should release the single and Freddie saying something like, "Of course you should! And if I die, it'll be a hit!" Prophetically, he did and it was!

@mike - I don't think the lyrics describe meeting a man either.  It sounds like it's about a woman, and he references the man in the hall as a shared memory around their meeting. Again though, I'm really glad you brought it up because I hadn't heard it.

@rhyeking - I'd disagree that the 'you had to be there' is meant to be light or fun.  I see it as rather more dark or cnyical.  An expression of his sense that he is alone in the grief over this relationship, or that he somehow struggling to express it or have it legitimized.

GratefulFan wrote: @mike - I don't think the lyrics describe meeting a man either.  It sounds like it's about a woman, and he references the man in the hall as a shared memory around their meeting. Again though, I'm really glad you brought it up because I hadn't heard it.

@rhyeking - I'd disagree that the 'you had to be there' is meant to be light or fun.  I see it as rather more dark or cnyical.  An expression of his sense that he is alone in the grief over this relationship, or that he somehow struggling to express it or have it legitimized.

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What I said was that it implies Roger is having a bit of fun juxtaposing the line 'you had to be there' (cheeky) with the seriousness of the rest of the song. I did not say the song was meant to be light or fun. Roger is taking a bit of the piss out of himself and song, in my opinion, as if saying, "Yeah, it's a serious song, but geez, it's not *that* serious."

rhyeking wrote: 'You Had To Be There' is an underrated song for sure, but I don't think it's a Freddie-related song. It sounds more like the character in the song is lamenting an ended romantic relationship.

Here are the lyrics:

the sweetest moments
that i ever had
the most magic memories
that i recall

(when the man came out
and complained in the hall)
when i met you
when i met you
'you had to be there'

the darkest hour
that i ever lived
and the longest fall
that i ever fell

and the sun went in
and the night was hell
when you left me
when you left me
'you had to be there'

the sweeteset thoughts
that i entertain
are of happy days
that might come again

i don't know your face
i don't know your name
till we meet again
hope we meet again
'you have to be there'

It's an easy trap to fall into to think that every song is autobiographical, especially with Back To The Light and Happiness? coming out not long after Freddie's death and both containing genuine songs which express their feelings ("Nothin' But Blue" and "Old Friends"). I may be wrong, but this is likely just Roger being vague and clever and tongue-in-cheek. Note that the title is in quotes, referencing the common saying "You had to be there," as we have all tried to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it, because they were there ("Dude, that horse kicking him in the head was hiliarious! What?...no, dude, you had to be there! Seriously!"). Putting the phrase (and the title itself) in quotes implies that Roger is having a bit of fun, juxtiposing the seriousness of the rest of the lyrics with the throw-away 'you had to be there'.

As for songs influenced by Freddie's illness and passing, "Driven By You" was more directly influenced by that than a lot of other songs. I've heard of Brian asking Freddie if he should release the single and Freddie saying something like, "Of course you should! And if I die, it'll be a hit!" Prophetically, he did and it was!

I used too think the chorus on "where are you now" from  roger was about freddie, not now though.   Also. of course "too Much love will you on first listen.

Back in the day, I had to convince a guy on my class that "Just One Life" was NOT about Freddie, eventually pointing to the actual "dedicated to Philip Sayer" in the liner notes. I didn't know who Sayer was at the time (I've since learned that he was an actor and friend of Anita Dobson's).

rhyeking wrote:

What I said was that it implies Roger is having a bit of fun juxtaposing the line 'you had to be there' (cheeky) with the seriousness of the rest of the song. I did not say the song was meant to be light or fun. Roger is taking a bit of the piss out of himself and song, in my opinion, as if saying, "Yeah, it's a serious song, but geez, it's not *that* serious."
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Still don't get that sense in the delivery.  'You had to be there' is something we say in many situations when we realize we are failing at conveying the essence of a situation, not just situations where hilarity ensues.  The lyric still seems more irony or cynicism to me than meant to subtly shift the emotional tone of the song.  Could also be a double entendre meant to imply that the woman wasn't adequately engaged in relationship. Or, it could be what you said.  That's the great things about well written songs - they can be anything.

I like your point about the timing of Brian's solo release.  That's an angle I hadn't thought of for the unenshapening we've been discussing.  Though perhaps Roger is the guy we need to consider more for that because I think he made a deliberate choice to stay out of circulation because of his own take on what respecting Freddie meant.  I wonder what changes that - could we characterize it as a delay? - may have had on his future material.  Songs reshaped just because more time elapsed between initial concept and ultimate public performance. I don't really know what stage Roger was at with writing/recording in late 1991/early 1992.  Interesting angle anyways.

Continuing on, I think it's quite possible that we would not have had 'The Miracle' (song) were it not for Freddie facing mortality but still well enough to marvel at life and appreciate in a way he never had to before.

GratefulFan wrote: rhyeking wrote:

What I said was that it implies Roger is having a bit of fun juxtaposing the line 'you had to be there' (cheeky) with the seriousness of the rest of the song. I did not say the song was meant to be light or fun. Roger is taking a bit of the piss out of himself and song, in my opinion, as if saying, "Yeah, it's a serious song, but geez, it's not *that* serious."
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Still don't get that sense in the delivery.  'You had to be there' is something we say in many situations when we realize we are failing at conveying the essence of a situation, not just situations where hilarity ensues.  The lyric still seems more irony or cynicism to me than meant to subtly shift the emotional tone of the song.  Could also be a double entendre meant to imply that the woman wasn't adequately engaged in relationship. Or, it could be what you said.  That's the great things about well written songs - they can be anything.

I like your point about the timing of Brian's solo release.  That's an angle I hadn't thought of for the unenshapening we've been discussing.  Though perhaps Roger is the guy we need to consider more for that because I think he made a deliberate choice to stay out of circulation because of his own take on what respecting Freddie meant.  I wonder what changes that - could we characterize it as a delay? - may have had on his future material.  Songs reshaped just because more time elapsed between initial concept and ultimate public performance. I don't really know what stage Roger was at with writing/recording in late 1991/early 1992.  Interesting angle anyways.

Continuing on, I think it's quite possible that we would not have had 'The Miracle' (song) were it not for Freddie facing mortality but still well enough to marvel at life and appreciate in a way he never had to before.

I think Queen would have wrote more  songs like the miracle, a winter's tale, these are the day's of our lives as they aged.  We are more reflective as we get older.  Not sure if those particular songs would have been recorded at that time if he wasn't sick,  but you have to figure even if they were all Healty at 45 or 50 they would have wrote less about Fat Bottomed girls or a young boy in love with his car ,  and more about life's wonders.    Though as sick as freddie was they still wern't serious all the time.....'Headlong, I can't live with you, my Baby does me' and so on.