I don't know why but I always had the impression that Fred as he growed up became more relgious than before.
It reflects a lot in the change of his lifestyle and in his work. The clothing, the interviews, and much of his music. I don't have here the songs but through 1986 -1991 he sung a lot more about "God" an all.
This is something that I really don't notice in the early Queen lyrics. Even I can see him talking more about "don't believe all you read in the bible". Maybe it's coicidence but during his last years Freddi seems like a more of a concious, god-believer guy than before.
Am I right? What do u think?
rhyeking · Member since
I think Freddie simply used religious imagery the way he used cultural references, mythology and love themes, as tools for writing what he considered disposable pop songs. If it worked and sounded good, he employed it. He was a pragmatist that way and I think far too interested in his work to let it get bogged down by anything as lofty as deep philosophical or religious dogma. He was more interested in entertaining than preaching his beliefs or even allowing them to reflect his personal life or be too autobiographical. Just my opinion, based on interviews I've seen and quotes I've read.
emrabt · Member since
I don't have here the songs but through 1986 -1991 he sung a lot more about "God" an all. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes because songs like jesus, mustapha and liar contain nothing to do with "god".
jpf · Member since
MmP wrote: I don't know why but I always had the impression that Fred as he growed up became more relgious than before.
It reflects a lot in the change of his lifestyle and in his work. The clothing, the interviews, and much of his music. I don't have here the songs but through 1986 -1991 he sung a lot more about "God" an all.
This is something that I really don't notice in the early Queen lyrics. Even I can see him talking more about "don't believe all you read in the bible". Maybe it's coicidence but during his last years Freddi seems like a more of a concious, god-believer guy than before.
Am I right? What do u think?
----- I guess you missed a song entitled "Jesus" off of the first Queen lp.
His lifestyle changed because he had AIDS.
His clothing changed to hide his weight loss.
He didn't find religion at the end. He distanced himself from his religion his entire adult life.
MmP · Member since
rhyeking think Freddie simply used religious imagery the way he used cultural references, mythology and love themes, as tools for writing what he considered disposable pop songs. If it worked and sounded good, he employed it. He was a pragmatist that way and I think far too interested in his work to let it get bogged down by anything as lofty as deep philosophical or religious dogma. He was more interested in entertaining than preaching his beliefs or even allowing them to reflect his personal life or be too autobiographical. Just my opinion, based on interviews I've seen and quotes I've read.
i think you're right in the way that he rather entertained with music than looking to give opinions or beliefs. but that's exactly what I was asking. During his last years did his mind change enough to try us to see life in a better way? more calmly, guiding us through a more spiritual paths? I think his music in his last years really changed the style. he sounds more reflexive about life, and trying to find different ways of living happy. and i think in some way (maybe not inteded) it's preaching a belief.
emrabt Yes because songs like jesus, mustapha and liar contain nothing to do with "god".
I didn't miss them, I clearly remember them but those are more of stories being told than actual feelings being expressed in a song. I'd rather say that reading the Jesus/Mustapha lyrics you kinda see a story being told from a critic point of view. What I see during Freddie's last years is that those songs then became more of spiritual-oriented songs, even before the AIDS his writting slowly turns into a more reflexive, spiritual work.
jpf I guess you missed a song entitled "Jesus" off of the first Queen lp. His lifestyle changed because he had AIDS. His clothing changed to hide his weight loss. He didn't find religion at the end. He distanced himself from his religion his entire adult life.
Once i again i didn't miss them, you can't see my point of view. and i was speaking also during his healthy life. Even in 1984.
Even reading "All Gods People". You see a clear spiritual kind of lyric.
So all you people give freely Make welcome inside your homes Thank God you people give freely Don't turn your back on the lesson of the Lord
All prime ministers (yeah) and majesty around the world Open your eyes look touch and feel Rule with your heart (rule with your heart ) Live with your conscience (live with your conscience) And love love Love love and be Love love and be free We're all God's people (we're all God's people)
Can you see my point?
------------
In DTSH we see it again, a spiritual song. I don't know who wrote this one lyrically but I think it was Freddie. Especially in his situation he's preaching a nice way of life. Find your happiness despite all.
Dont try so Hard
If you're searching out for something Don't try so hard If you're feeling kinda nothing Don't try so hard When your problems seem like mountains You feel the need to find some answers You can leave it for another day Don't try so hard
But if you fall and take a tumble it won't be far If you fail you mustn't grumble Thank your lucky stars Just savour every mouthful And treasure every moment When the storms are raging round you Stay right where you are
Oh don't try so hard Oh don't take it all to heart It's only fools they make these rules Don't try so hard
The Miracle
Every drop of rain that falls in Sahara Desert says it all It's a miracle All God's creations great and small The Golden Gate and the Taj Mahal That's a miracle Test tube babies being born Mothers, fathers dead and gone It's a miracle
What I trying to explain is that I see a slow tendency through the years tha include more god-oriented/ find reasons in life lyrics.From a spiritual stand point god/religion takes another place in his work and I guess his life.
Another examples: Made in heven, God is heavy, Is this the wolr thad we created?
dsmeer · Member since
Maybe he knew he wouldn't live for ages and sought the meaning of life in religion more then he just to?
His songs are indeed more serious that you mentioned above.
Anyway he is a great guy and I will love his music for life.
rhyeking · Member since
I understood what you were asking, MmP, and I guess my original answer was not as direct as it could have been: No, I don't think Freddie became any more religious in his last years. There was religious imagery in his work his entire career, the same way he made pop culture references (Kruschev, Kennedy, Star Wars, Jaws, President of the United States of America, Fred Astaire, test-tube babies, 'The Scottish Play,' etc.), love and romance (Funny How Love Is, Love Of My Life, My Love Is Dangerous, Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow, I Was Born To Love You, Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy, etc.). I don't believe he did it for spiritual reasons, I think he did it because he was a pragmatic and clever songwriter who used any tool available to him. Religion, Mythology, Popular Culture, Love, Hate, Friendship, Loss were all there for him to use in his music, not in a way to be too personal, but there to entertain.
I don't think he'd want people reading too much into his work and applying very weighty notions to his songs. In interviews, he never seemed to concerned with deeper meanings.
That doesn't mean you and anyone else can't apply songs to your life and find deeper truth reflected in your life, just don't expect the author to have had the same intent in mind when he/she wrote it.
I'll say this, though, the band was not afraid to look at all sides (good and bad) of religion and dogma in both Queen and their solo works, possibly more than a lot of rock bands. I admire the fact that it wasn't off-limits and they weren't afraid of alienating listeners with lyrics like: "God works in mysterious ways[...] One God [...]one true religion.." and "If there's a God or any kind of justice under the sky..." and "With your bishops, priests and rulers, and all your mumbo-jumbo clans; When you're not accepting women, how can you love your fellow man?"
jpf · Member since
MmP wrote: rhyeking think Freddie simply used religious imagery the way he used cultural references, mythology and love themes, as tools for writing what he considered disposable pop songs. If it worked and sounded good, he employed it. He was a pragmatist that way and I think far too interested in his work to let it get bogged down by anything as lofty as deep philosophical or religious dogma. He was more interested in entertaining than preaching his beliefs or even allowing them to reflect his personal life or be too autobiographical. Just my opinion, based on interviews I've seen and quotes I've read.
i think you're right in the way that he rather entertained with music than looking to give opinions or beliefs. but that's exactly what I was asking. During his last years did his mind change enough to try us to see life in a better way? more calmly, guiding us through a more spiritual paths? I think his music in his last years really changed the style. he sounds more reflexive about life, and trying to find different ways of living happy. and i think in some way (maybe not inteded) it's preaching a belief.
emrabt Yes because songs like jesus, mustapha and liar contain nothing to do with "god".
I didn't miss them, I clearly remember them but those are more of stories being told than actual feelings being expressed in a song. I'd rather say that reading the Jesus/Mustapha lyrics you kinda see a story being told from a critic point of view. What I see during Freddie's last years is that those songs then became more of spiritual-oriented songs, even before the AIDS his writting slowly turns into a more reflexive, spiritual work.
jpf I guess you missed a song entitled "Jesus" off of the first Queen lp. His lifestyle changed because he had AIDS. His clothing changed to hide his weight loss. He didn't find religion at the end. He distanced himself from his religion his entire adult life.
Once i again i didn't miss them, you can't see my point of view. and i was speaking also during his healthy life. Even in 1984.
Even reading "All Gods People". You see a clear spiritual kind of lyric.
So all you people give freely Make welcome inside your homes Thank God you people give freely Don't turn your back on the lesson of the Lord
All prime ministers (yeah) and majesty around the world Open your eyes look touch and feel Rule with your heart (rule with your heart ) Live with your conscience (live with your conscience) And love love Love love and be Love love and be free We're all God's people (we're all God's people)
Can you see my point?
------------
In DTSH we see it again, a spiritual song. I don't know who wrote this one lyrically but I think it was Freddie. Especially in his situation he's preaching a nice way of life. Find your happiness despite all.
Dont try so Hard
If you're searching out for something Don't try so hard If you're feeling kinda nothing Don't try so hard When your problems seem like mountains You feel the need to find some answers You can leave it for another day Don't try so hard
But if you fall and take a tumble it won't be far If you fail you mustn't grumble Thank your lucky stars Just savour every mouthful And treasure every moment When the storms are raging round you Stay right where you are
Oh don't try so hard Oh don't take it all to heart It's only fools they make these rules Don't try so hard
The Miracle
Every drop of rain that falls in Sahara Desert says it all It's a miracle All God's creations great and small The Golden Gate and the Taj Mahal That's a miracle Test tube babies being born Mothers, fathers dead and gone It's a miracle
What I trying to explain is that I see a slow tendency through the years tha include more god-oriented/ find reasons in life lyrics.From a spiritual stand point god/religion takes another place in his work and I guess his life.
Another examples: Made in heven, God is heavy, Is this the wolr thad we created?
----- "All God's People" was originally written for the "Barcelona" lp.
The songs you have listed have a reflective nature to them. Freddie is thinking about his death and putting some of that thought into his lyrics.
It wasn't as if Freddie was chomping at the bit to join Stryper.
Freddie didn't practice his religion. Freddie didn't change his religion. Peter Freestone and Jim Hutton never spoke about Freddie's religious beliefs in their books because Freddie never brought up this topic.
Donna13 · Member since
It's right there in his lyrics. You don't have to rely on another person to tell you whether or not Freddie was spiritual in his thinking or that he saw beauty in life and miracles around him. Maybe instead of sitting around talking about this stuff, he put it into his music. In any case, a beautiful result with the songs mentioned above.
jpf · Member since
Donna13 wrote: It's right there in his lyrics. You don't have to rely on another person to tell you whether or not Freddie was spiritual in his thinking or that he saw beauty in life and miracles around him. Maybe instead of sitting around talking about this stuff, he put it into his music. In any case, a beautiful result with the songs mentioned above.
-----
There's a difference between being religious and being spiritual.
The person who started this thread is talking about religion.
Freddie shot a man. He even told his mama about it.
It's right there in his lyrics.
people on streets · Member since
rhyeking wrote: I understood what you were asking, MmP, and I guess my original answer was not as direct as it could have been: No, I don't think Freddie became any more religious in his last years. There was religious imagery in his work his entire career, the same way he made pop culture references (Kruschev, Kennedy, Star Wars, Jaws, President of the United States of America, Fred Astaire, test-tube babies, 'The Scottish Play,' etc.), love and romance (Funny How Love Is, Love Of My Life, My Love Is Dangerous, Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow, I Was Born To Love You, Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy, etc.). I don't believe he did it for spiritual reasons, I think he did it because he was a pragmatic and clever songwriter who used any tool available to him. Religion, Mythology, Popular Culture, Love, Hate, Friendship, Loss were all there for him to use in his music, not in a way to be too personal, but there to entertain.
I don't think he'd want people reading too much into his work and applying very weighty notions to his songs. In interviews, he never seemed to concerned with deeper meanings.
That doesn't mean you and anyone else can't apply songs to your life and find deeper truth reflected in your life, just don't expect the author to have had the same intent in mind when he/she wrote it.
I'll say this, though, the band was not afraid to look at all sides (good and bad) of religion and dogma in both Queen and their solo works, possibly more than a lot of rock bands. I admire the fact that it wasn't off-limits and they weren't afraid of alienating listeners with lyrics like: "God works in mysterious ways[...] One God [...]one true religion.." and "If there's a God or any kind of justice under the sky..." and "With your bishops, priests and rulers, and all your mumbo-jumbo clans; When you're not accepting women, how can you love your fellow man?"
Quite intelligent post! Nice to read something like this on Queenzone for a change.
MmP · Member since
yeah, rhyeking great post, the kind of quality answer i was looking for.
jpf i was actially talking more about a spiritual freddie rather than realigious but since he has written a lot about god i came up with "religious" but that's okay.
Donna13 · Member since
jpf wrote: Freddie shot a man. He even told his mama about it.
It's right there in his lyrics.
-------
Well, if this is true, I do think it should be included in the movie. If we are going to have sex, we might as well have violence.
I think he used imaginary situations and the reality of his life and his own feelings and thoughts in his lyrics. I'm sure some lyrics were less personal than others, some were random just for rhyming or fitting in with the music, and some were pure fantasy. But if he did have some very personal thoughts, why should he not put them into a lyric? And if they were very personal, why would he want to explain them carefully to anyone in an interview, or even to his best friends? I think he wanted everyone to have their own meaning and interpretation of the lyrics, but that didn't rule out, necessarily, the existence of personal meaning to Freddie - especially in some of the songs mentioned in this thread.
rhyeking · Member since
Donna13: think he used imaginary situations and the reality of his life and his own feelings and thoughts in his lyrics. I'm sure some lyrics were less personal than others, some were random just for rhyming or fitting in with the music, and some were pure fantasy. But if he did have some very personal thoughts, why should he not put them into a lyric? And if they were very personal, why would he want to explain them carefully to anyone in an interview, or even to his best friends? I think he wanted everyone to have their own meaning and interpretation of the lyrics, but that didn't rule out, necessarily, the existence of personal meaning to Freddie - especially in some of the songs mentioned in this thread.
++++++++++++++++++
If he didn't talk about his own personal feelings for the songs he wrote, religious or otherwise, we can't know what those feelings were. By the rationale that some songs are personal and some aren't, without knowing which is which, an equally valid case can be made that the non-religious songs meant more than the religious ones.
The lyrics quoted are only those which validate the theory, ignoring the other lyrics which do not fit the theory, which is not applying correct empirical deduction. What MmP is seeing as "Freddie was dying" and "there were spiritual/religious views in songs written for the last albums he worked on" represent only a skewed correlation: a possible pattern among many. Yet, one must always remember that correlation does NOT equal causation.
Freddie was dying, yes, but there were also religious touches on songs prior to him getting sick. Also, there were songs questioning the validity of religion written AFTER he got sick ("Innuendo," "The Fallen Priest"). Arguably, there were songs questioning religion early in his career as well ("Great King Rat").
What we're left with, as I theorized earlier, is that Freddie was consistent with his use of positive and negative religious imagery and themes (among MANY other things) for 30 years, using them as needed for the purpose of the song, with the end result to entertain.
Donna13 · Member since
You are over analyzing, I think, and you are presuming that we can never know what Freddie's meaning was because he did not confirm anything for us. But it is pretty clear what some of the songs are about, such as "Don't Try So Hard". Didn't Freddie even say that the lyrics speak for themselves? Therefore, I say, we are free to interpret what they mean just based on common sense, and we shouldn't be so unsure of our own interpretation that we resort to assuming that all the lyrics were written for commercial purposes and "entertainment" and we can never know which lyrics were personal to Freddie. I think there are also clues in the music because the music has its own meaning to the composer and then to add lyrics to some of the more beautiful and sad melodies - it would complete the thought process and expression.
Also, it would be normal for a person who is dying to think of the meaning of life, how it is precious, and noting what they will be saying goodbye to (a beloved cat, a beautiful place, friends), and also realizing that they just cannot control everything. So, of course, if those sorts of things are on a person's mind, why not put them into a lyric?
