First of all. By saying his breath support was better on Magic and he could hit 5th octave notes with one breath, who the hell cares? How is how high the note is even relevant in this argument. You could say the same by saying that Steve Perry or Geddy Lee are better singers than Mercury because they had a better technique and can hit higher notes with however many breaths. Hell, you can even say that Tracy Milburn is a better singer because he sang more stable at times and could hit higher notes. The truth of the matter is that is all bullshit. The reason why people consider Mercury so special is not because of his breathing techniques, resonance, or power. It is because of his unique tone and character in his voice that NO ONE could impersonate which he had the most of in the 70's and especially towards the mid 70's where he really developed his voice.
I'm am not bias towards Races as I never said that it was their best album (because Frankly I believe that was opera or innuendo), I just stated that Freddie's vocal performances are the best on that album because of various factors such as emotion, tone, and diversity in songs. Like I said before, his uniqueness came from the 70's and not the 80's "i wanna be a rock singer" crap.
And I never said you were using only power as your main argument. I said that power was one of the main things that you tended to look for which leads to the fact that I still don't understand how Races or News of the World aren't in your top 5 because he sang with a shit load of power there and in the 80's just exaggerated it with a raspier, deeper tone. Let's put it this way. He was a much more interesting, dynamic, and diverse singer in the 70's than he was in the 80's. It seems as though his singing style kind of "flattened" out in the 80's especially post 1982. He just lost that creativity that he had on songs like Millionaire Waltz and My Melancholy Blues.
Case closed. He sounds better on Races than A Kind of Magic and whether he sounds better on Queen, Queen II, SHA, Opera, Races or NOTW is all a matter of personal preference.
Gregsynth · Member since
tcc wrote: Okay guys. I listened to the NOTW and AKOM albums. From the last song My Melancholy Blues in NOTW to the first song One Vision in AKOM, I could hear the degradation in Freddie''s voice. He really sounded very rough in One Vision but in the songs thereafter it was not as rough.
So, voice-wise, I agree the 70's voice is better. In terms of which album he sounded best, now I am a mixed up kid :-)
============
Yeah, I agree with Freddie having a better voice during the 70s. I'm just saying on a "technical" level he was better in the 80s.
jamster1111 · Member since
Ahhhh so ha-ha! You admit it! Finally.
Gregsynth · Member since
Oh! Mr. Jamster! This debate will continue forever (because I like it)! So, let me address your points (which have more Red Herrings and Straw mans among them):
What do you mean "who the hell cares?" for the breath support? I don't want Freddie CHOKING or his voice giving out when he goes high. You could say that for Races too (because there's some high note phrasing there). When I made the "Usage of range" argument, I'm talking BOTH ends of the vocal spectrum (high and low). Freddie's low range was WEAK during the 70s, and his highs weren't developed fully. By Magic, his voice had GOOD range on both ends. By saying "who cares" on breath support and range, you are missing a point: Freddie wouldn't have those AMAZING performances during the 80s and Innuendo. We would have no "The Show Must Go On," "Scandal," "One Vision," "One Year Of Love," "Gimme The Prize," "I Want It All," "Innuendo," "All God's People," etc. You wouldn't want that would you? I wouldn't want Freddie always singing ala 70s either--I don't want him doing the "AC/DC formula" (sounds the same/similar from album to album). I'm almost GLAD he smoked (ironic, isn't it?)!
Also, you again made Steve Perry and Geddy Lee as straw men and red herrings: WHO CARES? They are COMPLETELY different singers from Freddie (they are some of my favorites though). Those guys weren't "range-show-off" singers either.
I do agree that Freddie is mostly known for his "voice" (which if I'm assuming, is the TONE argument again), and that I can't dispute. However, some people prefer 70s Freddie, and some prefer 80s Freddie. But, I do agree that it's his "voice" and "uniqueness" that he's mostly known for.
Oh come on, you have said to me numerous times that ADATR is your favorite album. It's even on your Youtube channel! Don't even try to squeak by that! My favorite album is Opera, but I'm not biased! Yes, his uniqueness and diversity is better on Races, I'm not disputing that (it's impossible to dispute). But saying that all he did was play "rock singer" during his later career is inaccurate. He did NOT always sing with a "I want to be a rock star" tone or attitude during the 80s. It was a personal preference during 1980-1982, and then from 1983-1986 he couldn't help it (his voice was too harsh), but then he got his "voice" back for Barcelona! You think he sang with the "rock star attitude" on THAT album? Man, Barcelona is AMAZING! He's got power, range, DIVERSITY, EMOTION, EVERYTHING! That's why it's higher on my vocal album list!
You indirectly kept mentioning the "power" argument in almost every post after I made my list. You first said he sounded too much like a "rock singer" (which means too powerful), then you did say he was in fact "too powerful." Again, most people wouldn't say that. You just love the 70s voice over the 80s voice! And again you made a straw man statement: I did NOT put POWER as a main base for my list! I used an OVERALL benchmark to make that list. That's why you DON'T see Magic at #1, but rather Innuendo. Opera's in that list too.
He was a more "diverse" singer in the 70s--but it doesn't mean he "sang" better then--he was just more creative.
It ain't case closed: We need more opinions (from everybody).
So here's the deal:
70s: Sounds better, more diverse 80s: Better singer, better technique
Gregsynth · Member since
jamster1111 wrote: Ahhhh so ha-ha! You admit it! Finally.
=============
No, you didn't read my last post. :D
mike hunt · Member since
Gregsynth wrote: Oh! Mr. Jamster! This debate will continue forever (because I like it)! So, let me address your points (which have more Red Herrings and Straw mans among them):
What do you mean "who the hell cares?" for the breath support? I don't want Freddie CHOKING or his voice giving out when he goes high. You could say that for Races too (because there's some high note phrasing there). When I made the "Usage of range" argument, I'm talking BOTH ends of the vocal spectrum (high and low). Freddie's low range was WEAK during the 70s, and his highs weren't developed fully. By Magic, his voice had GOOD range on both ends. By saying "who cares" on breath support and range, you are missing a point: Freddie wouldn't have those AMAZING performances during the 80s and Innuendo. We would have no "The Show Must Go On," "Scandal," "One Vision," "One Year Of Love," "Gimme The Prize," "I Want It All," "Innuendo," "All God's People," etc. You wouldn't want that would you? I wouldn't want Freddie always singing ala 70s either--I don't want him doing the "AC/DC formula" (sounds the same/similar from album to album). I'm almost GLAD he smoked (ironic, isn't it?)!
Also, you again made Steve Perry and Geddy Lee as straw men and red herrings: WHO CARES? They are COMPLETELY different singers from Freddie (they are some of my favorites though). Those guys weren't "range-show-off" singers either.
I do agree that Freddie is mostly known for his "voice" (which if I'm assuming, is the TONE argument again), and that I can't dispute. However, some people prefer 70s Freddie, and some prefer 80s Freddie. But, I do agree that it's his "voice" and "uniqueness" that he's mostly known for.
Oh come on, you have said to me numerous times that ADATR is your favorite album. It's even on your Youtube channel! Don't even try to squeak by that! My favorite album is Opera, but I'm not biased! Yes, his uniqueness and diversity is better on Races, I'm not disputing that (it's impossible to dispute). But saying that all he did was play "rock singer" during his later career is inaccurate. He did NOT always sing with a "I want to be a rock star" tone or attitude during the 80s. It was a personal preference during 1980-1982, and then from 1983-1986 he couldn't help it (his voice was too harsh), but then he got his "voice" back for Barcelona! You think he sang with the "rock star attitude" on THAT album? Man, Barcelona is AMAZING! He's got power, range, DIVERSITY, EMOTION, EVERYTHING! That's why it's higher on my vocal album list!
You indirectly kept mentioning the "power" argument in almost every post after I made my list. You first said he sounded too much like a "rock singer" (which means too powerful), then you did say he was in fact "too powerful." Again, most people wouldn't say that. You just love the 70s voice over the 80s voice! And again you made a straw man statement: I did NOT put POWER as a main base for my list! I used an OVERALL benchmark to make that list. That's why you DON'T see Magic at #1, but rather Innuendo. Opera's in that list too.
He was a more "diverse" singer in the 70s--but it doesn't mean he "sang" better then--he was just more creative.
It ain't case closed: We need more opinions (from everybody).
So here's the deal:
70s: Sounds better, more diverse 80s: Better singer, better technique
How was freddie a better singer in the 80's?........If he sounded better and was more diverse in the 70's?...doesn't make sense......The only thing he had more of was power in the 80's. The thing that made him so special and puts him in another league than most singers is his diveristy. A lot of singer's had a more powerful voice, but those guy's still fall below freddie as an all around singer. Not many could sing something like 'leroy brown' and then stone cold crazy or it's late then my melancholy blues, it takes a special singer to pull that off........and if anyone mentions Geddy Lee and Freddie mercury in the same breath as a singer I'll pull the few hairs i have left out of my head. I love Rush. In my top 5 of my favorite Bands, but Geddy was never a great singer. That high pitched winey voice did get better as he aged though. Steve perry one of the best of all time, but IMO sang the same style (love songs) on almost every song.......Freddie's Diversity was insane when you think about it....... I guess I agree with Jamster overall, but Gregsynth makes some good points.
Bad Seed · Member since
Gregsynth wrote: No matter how many times I've heard it, I just can't believe that Freddie sang AOBTD until his throat bled! ==============
Well there's one. Did Freddie sing it in E and it was speed up to F? Or did he sing it in F? I think The Wyceff version is in its original key of E, and I think Freddie sounds more natural on that.
For some reason I didn't put this in my 5, but I think Hot Space is where he is at his best for me. Still has most of the clarity and tone of the 70s, but has the range with power of his mid-late 80s voice. Best of both.
Gregsynth · Member since
Bad Seed wrote: Gregsynth wrote: No matter how many times I've heard it, I just can't believe that Freddie sang AOBTD until his throat bled! ==============
Well there's one. Did Freddie sing it in E and it was speed up to F? Or did he sing it in F? I think The Wyceff version is in its original key of E, and I think Freddie sounds more natural on that.
For some reason I didn't put this in my 5, but I think Hot Space is where he is at his best for me. Still has most of the clarity and tone of the 70s, but has the range with power of his mid-late 80s voice. Best of both.
===============
Freddie did sing it in the key of E. It's just for some reason, the whole song is sped up half a semitone.
Gregsynth · Member since
mike hunt wrote: Gregsynth wrote: Oh! Mr. Jamster! This debate will continue forever (because I like it)! So, let me address your points (which have more Red Herrings and Straw mans among them):
What do you mean "who the hell cares?" for the breath support? I don't want Freddie CHOKING or his voice giving out when he goes high. You could say that for Races too (because there's some high note phrasing there). When I made the "Usage of range" argument, I'm talking BOTH ends of the vocal spectrum (high and low). Freddie's low range was WEAK during the 70s, and his highs weren't developed fully. By Magic, his voice had GOOD range on both ends. By saying "who cares" on breath support and range, you are missing a point: Freddie wouldn't have those AMAZING performances during the 80s and Innuendo. We would have no "The Show Must Go On," "Scandal," "One Vision," "One Year Of Love," "Gimme The Prize," "I Want It All," "Innuendo," "All God's People," etc. You wouldn't want that would you? I wouldn't want Freddie always singing ala 70s either--I don't want him doing the "AC/DC formula" (sounds the same/similar from album to album). I'm almost GLAD he smoked (ironic, isn't it?)!
Also, you again made Steve Perry and Geddy Lee as straw men and red herrings: WHO CARES? They are COMPLETELY different singers from Freddie (they are some of my favorites though). Those guys weren't "range-show-off" singers either.
I do agree that Freddie is mostly known for his "voice" (which if I'm assuming, is the TONE argument again), and that I can't dispute. However, some people prefer 70s Freddie, and some prefer 80s Freddie. But, I do agree that it's his "voice" and "uniqueness" that he's mostly known for.
Oh come on, you have said to me numerous times that ADATR is your favorite album. It's even on your Youtube channel! Don't even try to squeak by that! My favorite album is Opera, but I'm not biased! Yes, his uniqueness and diversity is better on Races, I'm not disputing that (it's impossible to dispute). But saying that all he did was play "rock singer" during his later career is inaccurate. He did NOT always sing with a "I want to be a rock star" tone or attitude during the 80s. It was a personal preference during 1980-1982, and then from 1983-1986 he couldn't help it (his voice was too harsh), but then he got his "voice" back for Barcelona! You think he sang with the "rock star attitude" on THAT album? Man, Barcelona is AMAZING! He's got power, range, DIVERSITY, EMOTION, EVERYTHING! That's why it's higher on my vocal album list!
You indirectly kept mentioning the "power" argument in almost every post after I made my list. You first said he sounded too much like a "rock singer" (which means too powerful), then you did say he was in fact "too powerful." Again, most people wouldn't say that. You just love the 70s voice over the 80s voice! And again you made a straw man statement: I did NOT put POWER as a main base for my list! I used an OVERALL benchmark to make that list. That's why you DON'T see Magic at #1, but rather Innuendo. Opera's in that list too.
He was a more "diverse" singer in the 70s--but it doesn't mean he "sang" better then--he was just more creative.
It ain't case closed: We need more opinions (from everybody).
So here's the deal:
70s: Sounds better, more diverse 80s: Better singer, better technique
How was freddie a better singer in the 80's?........If he sounded better and was more diverse in the 70's?...doesn't make sense......The only thing he had more of was power in the 80's. The thing that made him so special and puts him in another league than most singers is his diveristy. A lot of singer's had a more powerful voice, but those guy's still fall below freddie as an all around singer. Not many could sing something like 'leroy brown' and then stone cold crazy or it's late then my melancholy blues, it takes a special singer to pull that off........and if anyone mentions Geddy Lee and Freddie mercury in the same breath as a singer I'll pull the few hairs i have left out of my head. I love Rush. In my top 5 of my favorite Bands, but Geddy was never a great singer. That high pitched winey voice did get better as he aged though. Steve perry one of the best of all time, but IMO sang the same style (love songs) on almost every song.......Freddie's Diversity was insane when you think about it....... I guess I agree with Jamster overall, but Gregsynth makes some good points. ====================
When I mean "better singer in the 80s," I'm talking strictly on a technical level.
mike hunt · Member since
tcc wrote: Okay guys. I listened to the NOTW and AKOM albums. From the last song My Melancholy Blues in NOTW to the first song One Vision in AKOM, I could hear the degradation in Freddie''s voice. He really sounded very rough in One Vision but in the songs thereafter it was not as rough.
So, voice-wise, I agree the 70's voice is better. In terms of which album he sounded best, now I am a mixed up kid :-)
I don't know.......After listening to Innuendo for the first time in a while i could understand why it would be high on someone's list. Even #1. I guess it depends what your in the mood for. His voice changed so much .from era to era, but most of that album he was amazing.
Wijnand · Member since
I prefer Freddie's voice from the 60's... Wreckage and Ibex...
But I think this thread is very amusing ;-)
Gregsynth · Member since
The 60s were awesome! :D
I'm glad you like this thread! I always come back and read the debates.
I have debates like these all the time on Skype (and it's with at least 4 people).
Gregsynth · Member since
Hmmm. It's been awhile since this was made. So I'll update it a bit:
TECHNICAL STATS
1. Innuendo 2. Barcelona 3. A Kind Of Magic 4. Hot Space 5. Mr. Bad Guy
TONAL STATS
1. Hot Space 2. A Day At The Races 3. News Of The World 4. A Night At The Opera 5. Barcelona
Now, lets make a list on the "studio performances."
Sheer Brass Neck · Member since
Freddie was a better singer in the 70s because a) he sang infinitelly better songs in the 70s, b) his songs resonated more with people than in the 80s and 90s. and c) the job of a singer is to get people to relate to your song. I believe in It's late, Love of my Life, STL, etc. because they move me. If he had better breath control or less hair on his nuts in the Magic/Miracle years which made his sing higher and more powerfully doesn't mean a thing to me because the songs were well played and sung but pretty much fluff and I had no emotional attachment to most of the 80s stuff. So you're both right and wrong :)
Gregsynth · Member since
Sheer Brass Neck wrote: Freddie was a better singer in the 70s because a) he sang infinitelly better songs in the 70s, b) his songs resonated more with people than in the 80s and 90s. and c) the job of a singer is to get people to relate to your song. I believe in It's late, Love of my Life, STL, etc. because they move me. If he had better breath control or less hair on his nuts in the Magic/Miracle years which made his sing higher and more powerfully doesn't mean a thing to me because the songs were well played and sung but pretty much fluff and I had no emotional attachment to most of the 80s stuff. So you're both right and wrong :) ==============
Well his tone was definitely better in the 70s-82 era, but he did much more with his voice as he aged. He got better live as well. Compare STL from 1977 to 1981 = the 80s versions win. Love of my life was better live in the 80s than the 70s (Freddie did more with his voice, did the long sustained falsetto, etc), and I wish It's Late wasn't dropped!
