Thistleboy 1980 wrote: Hi lifetimefan, was watching the telly quite late the other night and stumbled across an interview with Brian May on BBC Two's "Hardtalk". The interviewer was a bit of a prick at times and clearly wasn't too well informed by his researchers, but Brian soon put him right. Part of the 20-odd minute interview was spent talking about fox-hunting and killing badgers, here's the link:
I didn't see anyone else talk about this, so I'll probably post the link in the serious discussions too. =====================
That interview was indeed posted here previously, but I'm glad you've reposted it in this context. I love Brian dearly, but he is a raving partisan on this issue who can't be trusted to deliver anything remotely like objectivity. He cherry picks and over simplifies as suits his evangelizing, and he bullies and smears farmers egregiously. The interviewer wasn't half hard enough on him.
As far as fox hunting goes, if it's about the welfare of the fox then one has to consider what happens to the fox if it's not hunted in this manner. You can't assume a better fate as foxes rightly or wrongly are considered vermin in rural areas of the UK. Traps, lousy marksmanship and starvation are all sources of protracted suffering. I don't know the right answer, but it's not as straightforward as it seems. If it's about affirming that a culture does not support cruelty in such an open and seemingly indulgent way, then that has value, but it may come at a cost to individuals of the species.
catqueen · Member since
Zebonka12 wrote: "Ever hear of the conditions chickens are raised in for feather production? Far more cruel then shooting a fox... and yet we turn a blind eye."
The argument is not valid, because no one's saying it's okay to mistreat chickens for making pillows ... besides which you can buy pillows which don't have chicken feathers in them. I understand your point about meat eating, of course, but pillows aren't relevant.
yeah..... but..... :P in my head what i was thinking was that we torture and kill animals for reasons other then fox hunting without much of a fuss being made of it. Of course nobody is saying its 'good' to mistreat them, like is said in defence of fox hunting (although would it be THAT big a stretch to use arguments for economising to equate with 'good' to mistreat if it is in capitalism's interests/ interests of big companies/ keeping ppl employed?) I didnt phrase my post well, but sometimes (while yes, i DONT LIKE fox hunting and do think its cruel to kill animals for sport) i think some of the reasons ppl are SO against it is because of almost a 'not in my backyard' attitude. We know abt fox hunting, foxes are cute, they're in children's stories, we grew up hearing abt sly mr fox... we have sympathy for them, and dont like the thought of them being shot in our neighbourhoods... whereas if feather production is far away and out of sight, suddenly its less of a problem. So we eat battery eggs, we use feather pillows, we eat meat slaughtered in less-then-ideal circumstances... but when we dont see it, its not in our faces... we dont care as much. Yet we inflict MORE suffering on those animals then is inflicted by a good hunter in one single shot. Plus many hunters who hunt for sport dont actually CATCH the fox... so he isnt hurt at all. I think my problem with the whole fox hunting issue is not whether it is right or wrong to hunt, but rather -- why THIS issue? Do the ppl who talk abt fox huntiing take the care to source fairly traded food, fairly traded clothes (incl the material that is IN the clothes), do they think abt the stone in their driveway that is broken up by 3 year old Dalit kids in India? To me, human rights supercede animal rights (not to deminish animal rights in any way -- just i believe that human rights are more imp) and it is hypocritical to scream abt fox hunting while u pay for kids to make ur clothes. (and no i dont use all fair trade stuff even tho i believe in it).
Amazon · Member since
I hate the idea of killing animals for sport, which is why for example I am opposed to my state's continously allowing people to go duck hunting. If fox hunting is indeed for sport, then I definitely think it should be banned.
If it is not sport but is done to eliminate foxes because they're pests, then the question becomes whether or not a more humane method can be utilised instead. Regardless, I would struggle to find much justification for it.
GratefulFan · Member since
Amazon wrote: I hate the idea of killing animals for sport, which is why for example I am opposed to my state's continously allowing people to go duck hunting. If fox hunting is indeed for sport, then I definitely think it should be banned.
If it is not sport but is done to eliminate foxes because they're pests, then the question becomes whether or not a more humane method can be utilised instead. Regardless, I would struggle to find much justification for it. ==============================
I hate the idea of killing for sport as well - for me. But hunting and fishing and the like is huge here, and I struggle with projecting my sense of right and wrong in this instance on other people. I'd much, much rather see an animal in the wild than in the back of a pickup truck, and it would be painful and unpleasant for me to see an animal killed. But hunting is a fulfilling pastime for a lot of people. The vast majority of hunters utilize the animals they kill for meat, and in that way they are no different from any another cog in nature's food wheel. I think it's no surprise that animal rights movements are dominated by women, because speaking very generally we're not good at this sort of thing, particularly in modern life where most of us are really removed from the reality of food production. And we generally don't have desire or instinct to run about and conquer stuff, but an awful lot of men, and some women, do. To quash that basic instinct by too broadly defining any use of nature as cruelty may be unjust and even unwise.
Fox hunting is a difficult one because among other things it's jarring to a sense of fairness. A bunch of people and horses and a pack of dogs after a creature not much bigger than a cat is a bit hard to swallow. Even if it could be conclusively demonstrated that as pest control it is no more cruel than any other method, I think people would still hate it. As a symbol of cruelty and indulgence, actual or perceived, it's pretty potent.
