USA: The Westboro idiots can now yell 'fire' and it's OK
43 postsPage 3 of 3
Thread
Posts in chronological order
magicalfreddiemercury · Member since
[QUOTE] GratefulFan wrote: These kind of public responses (the angel wings and such) have always interested me. From an emotional standpoint, they feel very satisfying to those of us reading about them. But from a purely intellectual standpoint, I struggle with them a little. When the counter protests rise to what is essentially interference rather than a just a counter message, I'm not entirely sure if it's better to leave in the hands of the people rather than the courts. If the higher value really is free speech, removing the right with angel wings is still removing the right, no less so because it's organic and grassroots and it feels like karma. It's still tyranny of a minority by a majority, the very thing many foundational American principles were designed to prevent. It's a bit of an end run around freedom of speech, using freedom of speech, revealing perhaps the sometimes dogmatic nature of the concept in the US. [/QUOTE]
On some level I understand your point, but I feel the counter protests indeed send a message rather than simply interfere. Their message is one of solidarity with the mourners, informing the Westboro people that Westboro beliefs are not shared. And they are not removing the right of free speech from anyone bur rather exercising their own right to free speech. Just as anti-choicers rally across from pro-choice people or tea-partiers rally across from union workers (I'm thinking Wisconsin - where, btw, the tea-party people were the minority trying to shout down the pro-union majority). No one group has the right to free speech. It's a right extended to all... with exceptions, of course. And the size of the protest - original or counter - is determined by the number of people willing to participate.
thomasquinn 32989 · Member since
The idea that free speech is the highest attainable value is, IMO, not only fallacious, but perverted.
Free speech is abused, and has been for as long as the notion exists, for propaganda, for fear-mongering, for down-and-dirty conning and other money-making schemes just barely legal.
Everywhere you look, you can see that complete and unlimited 'freedom' in the Reagonomic-capitalist sense is far too great a responsibility for many, many people. I am talking about people who take out outrageous loans that land their families in debt literally for decades if not for life, I am talking about people spending money they don't have on (often concealed) gambling, or on supposed 'needs' they never had before the outwashes of agressive advertising got to them. I am talking about people who listen to half-wit preachers and turn into bloodthirsty fundamentalists of all denominations. I am talking about people who scream for the toppling of chimaeras created by their own lack of comprehension like "Obamacare-socialism", the illusory "left-wing ruling elite" in Western Europe, terror threats that aren't there, burqas and satanists that don't exist.
The bottom line is, quite simply, that not every adult is capable of acting as a responsible citizen. Therefore, we need laws to govern the boundaries of what is permissible, because there are things more important than the right of an individual to spew gall under the header 'free speech'. I am talking about other basic civil rights, yes, human rights, like the right to freedom of conscience, to equal treatment under equal conditions, to live their own life as they see fit. That does not include dictating how another should live his or hers, and thus behaviour that violates another individual's freedom is a violation of society, yes, of civilization.
GratefulFan · Member since
jpf wrote: GratefulFan wrote: jpf wrote:
Some day someone who doesn't care about consequences will put these fucking pieces of shit in their graves.
Inbreed white trash. Hopefully long, painful fatal diseases are headed their way. ==============================
Honestly, what is it with you? Why does EVERY thread have to turn into a *KISS* thread?! -----
It pisses you off.
===============================
Yeah! But back to your original point, I would be happy enough just to have their instruments taken away really. Maybe cancel Family Jewels. On the other hand, your plan was good too.
GratefulFan · Member since
Holly2003 wrote:
Wow. You lecturing anyone on irony. Or decency. Or good taste.
You must also believe that discriminating against bigots is bigotry. No wonder you're further to the right than Glenn Beck. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What the hell are you talking about?
=========================
No answer for this yet? I'll see your 'what the hell are you talking about' and raise you a WTF?
GratefulFan · Member since
magicalfreddiemercury wrote:
On some level I understand your point, but I feel the counter protests indeed send a message rather than simply interfere. Their message is one of solidarity with the mourners, informing the Westboro people that Westboro beliefs are not shared. And they are not removing the right of free speech from anyone bur rather exercising their own right to free speech. Just as anti-choicers rally across from pro-choice people or tea-partiers rally across from union workers (I'm thinking Wisconsin - where, btw, the tea-party people were the minority trying to shout down the pro-union majority). No one group has the right to free speech. It's a right extended to all... with exceptions, of course. And the size of the protest - original or counter - is determined by the number of people willing to participate. ==============================
I started this reply with good intentions, but as it turns out, I'm too sleepy just now. :) Thanks for your thoughts. Hopefully I'll have some more tomorrow.
Some day someone who doesn't care about consequences will put these fucking pieces of shit in their graves.
Inbreed white trash. Hopefully long, painful fatal diseases are headed their way. ==============================
Honestly, what is it with you? Why does EVERY thread have to turn into a *KISS* thread?! -----
It pisses you off.
===============================
Yeah! But back to your original point, I would be happy enough just to have their instruments taken away really. Maybe cancel Family Jewels. On the other hand, your plan was good too. ----
Some day someone who doesn't care about consequences will put these fucking pieces of shit in their graves.
Inbreed white trash. Hopefully long, painful fatal diseases are headed their way. ==============================
Honestly, what is it with you? Why does EVERY thread have to turn into a *KISS* thread?! -----
It pisses you off.
===============================
Yeah! But back to your original point, I would be happy enough just to have their instruments taken away really. Maybe cancel Family Jewels. On the other hand, your plan was good too. ----
You bore me. =======================================================
Children often get bored when adults are talking.
GratefulFan · Member since
magicalfreddiemercury wrote:
On some level I understand your point, but I feel the counter protests indeed send a message rather than simply interfere. Their message is one of solidarity with the mourners, informing the Westboro people that Westboro beliefs are not shared. And they are not removing the right of free speech from anyone bur rather exercising their own right to free speech. Just as anti-choicers rally across from pro-choice people or tea-partiers rally across from union workers (I'm thinking Wisconsin - where, btw, the tea-party people were the minority trying to shout down the pro-union majority). No one group has the right to free speech. It's a right extended to all... with exceptions, of course. And the size of the protest - original or counter - is determined by the number of people willing to participate. ==============================
I'm referring to something that at times has been qualitatively different than simply having the lousy luck of being the smaller, crazier group less able to make a big noise in the face of a significant counter message. Westboro members have been surrounded and herded and blocked by physical barriers (like the wings) on multiple occasions. They've had to flee into their vehicles to ensure their personal safety in the presence of police officers doing only the barest minimum. We look away, and we rationalize, because it feels like what they've got coming for such an ugly message in service of such an ugly mission. It's spoken and unspoken collusion to strip them of their ability to spout gratuitous hurtful garbage, and probably rightly so. I just think if you've gotten to that point you have to start thinking that there are elements of freedom of speech in America that have become doctrinaire. The cooler heads and wisdom of the law may be the better solution.
Holly2003 · Member since
jpf wrote: Sir GH wrote: As long as it's in the name of religion, bar killing someone, it's allowed.
But in my opinion, this is not free speech. There must be a limit. Hijacking a soldier's funeral because the military is permissive of gays is not free speech.
---
It's not free speech, it's hate speech.
Some day someone who doesn't care about consequences will put these fucking pieces of shit in their graves.
Inbreed white trash. Hopefully long, painful fatal diseases are headed their way. ========================================================================
Or as you said on another topic, "Tell your boyfriend to use a condom the next time he ass rapes you or else you'll end up like Freddie." I would've thought the The Rev. Phelps was one of your heroes. Funny old world innit?
jpf · Member since
Holly2003 wrote: jpf wrote: Sir GH wrote: As long as it's in the name of religion, bar killing someone, it's allowed.
But in my opinion, this is not free speech. There must be a limit. Hijacking a soldier's funeral because the military is permissive of gays is not free speech.
---
It's not free speech, it's hate speech.
Some day someone who doesn't care about consequences will put these fucking pieces of shit in their graves.
Inbreed white trash. Hopefully long, painful fatal diseases are headed their way. ========================================================================
Or as you said on another topic, "Tell your boyfriend to use a condom the next time he ass rapes you or else you'll end up like Freddie." I would've thought the The Rev. Phelps was one of your heroes. Funny old world innit? ---
It's obvious that Phelps is your father.
Holly2003 · Member since
jpf wrote: Holly2003 wrote: jpf wrote: Sir GH wrote: As long as it's in the name of religion, bar killing someone, it's allowed.
But in my opinion, this is not free speech. There must be a limit. Hijacking a soldier's funeral because the military is permissive of gays is not free speech.
---
It's not free speech, it's hate speech.
Some day someone who doesn't care about consequences will put these fucking pieces of shit in their graves.
Inbreed white trash. Hopefully long, painful fatal diseases are headed their way. ========================================================================
Or as you said on another topic, "Tell your boyfriend to use a condom the next time he ass rapes you or else you'll end up like Freddie." I would've thought the The Rev. Phelps was one of your heroes. Funny old world innit? ---
It's obvious that Phelps is your father. ================================================
That is feeble. You have no mojo.
GratefulFan · Member since
jpf wrote:
It's obvious that Phelps is your father. ====================
Stop listening to that utter crap music so loud. Those Westboro people told you to call him 'Holy Father Phelps', not 'Holly's Father Phelps'. Jeez. Get it together.
*goodco* · Member since
Moving back to the original topic.........per the Supreme Court, states can legislate restrictions. Here's what Maryland plan
