As eloquent a post from you as I might have expected....
Doesn't make the aspersions you've cast any more right though. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
----
You're a hypocrite.
You're the one who doesn't have a clue. Try reading some books so that you can get a clue.
Holly2003 · Member since
jpf wrote: DaveyLane wrote: I'll post whatever I please.
If you don't like it you can go fuck yourself.
As eloquent a post from you as I might have expected....
Doesn't make the aspersions you've cast any more right though. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
----
You're a hypocrite.
You're the one who doesn't have a clue. Try reading some books so that you can get a clue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what bit of Fred's last will and testament is Mary supposed to have broken?
TyphoonTip · Member since
jpf wrote: DaveyLane wrote: I'll post whatever I please.
If you don't like it you can go fuck yourself.
As eloquent a post from you as I might have expected....
Doesn't make the aspersions you've cast any more right though. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
----
You're a hypocrite.
You're the one who doesn't have a clue. Try reading some books so that you can get a clue.
_____________________________
Really, do you have a brain injury?
The point that he and others are making, is that despite all the books you might read, or how much of an expert you profess to be, YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANY OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED, none of us did. Therefore anything we say is nothing more than presumption and/or guesswork. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.
You don't have any greater insight into this than anyone else. Yet you feel you are somehow in possession of 'the facts'?!
It amazes me how deluded some people are.
catqueen · Member since
jpf wrote: Donna13 wrote: I have not read any of these unkind books written by so-called friends of Freddie. I would not want to spend money on that sort of thing and they don't have such books in the libraries in the United States. So, even though it might be interesting to read them, I haven't. But if I did read them, I would realize that it was just one person's account. When you talk to different people about a subject, you get different perceptions from each person. People have mis-perceptions also when emotion is involved. So, taking any one person's story as being 100 percent accurate - that is just not very smart.
But from what I've read for free online, I know that Freddie thought of Mary as his only real friend. The suggestion that she wanted him for his money is pretty ridiculous when you consider that he was not making big money when she met him. In fact, she probably considered him to be poor. I also heard from another person, who knew Mary well, that she was very kind, generous, and a good friend. ---- She wasn't a kind, generous, good friend to Peter, Joe, and Jim. The way she treated them shows how much of an unkind, greedy, shitty friend she was to Freddie. She treated Freddie's closest friends, the three friends that attended to him 24/7 while he was at his worst health-wise, like shit.
BTW, since you haven't read those "unkind" books, it makes you uninformed.
things vary depending on people's interpretation of events. I haven't read many of them either, although i have read some. Freddie was wealthy and extremely famous, that could be a factor in why people want to write books about him. Also, people made money by makiing a dramatic story. And i know some people close to Freddie did not like a lot of those books, but i can't remember where i read that, so i dont have the link to back that up. But just because someone wrote a book does not mean that the book was accurate. Freddie had other relationships that concerned some of his close friends, maybe some of them didn't like mary, that's fair enough. BUT you can't necessarily go from 'person a dislikes mary' to 'mary is a bad person, and swindled Freddie.' Those books are not like a speech at someones funeral, or an obituary. They were written for profit, and got the authors some level of 'fame' by association. Therefore, they are not totally objective. (IMO)
malicedoom · Member since
"So what bit of Fred's last will and testament is Mary supposed to have broken?"
Great point. Freddie didn't have it IN HIS WILL requesting the 3 closest people to him while he was dying NOT be treated like shit once he passed. I guess he just EXPECTED that kind of decency from Mary, eh?
What a mistake on his part. He should have put it in the will, I suppose.
Holly2003 · Member since
malicedoom wrote: "So what bit of Fred's last will and testament is Mary supposed to have broken?"
Great point. Freddie didn't have it IN HIS WILL requesting the 3 closest people to him while he was dying NOT be treated like shit once he passed. I guess he just EXPECTED that kind of decency from Mary, eh?
What a mistake on his part. He should have put it in the will, I suppose. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Err.. it says in his will that the property should go to Mary not his 3 friends. Instead (if I read the will properly) he left them substantial amounts of money. How did she treat them like shit? Weren't they asked to leave so she could move into the house with her family? Freddie specifically willed the property to Mary and made no provision whatsoever for them to stay there, so why in the world would they expect to keep living there after their one reason for being there -- Fred -- had passed away and willed the property to someone else? I really don't get the line of reasoning here.
GratefulFan · Member since
Donna13 wrote: I have not read any of these unkind books written by so-called friends of Freddie. I would not want to spend money on that sort of thing and they don't have such books in the libraries in the United States. So, even though it might be interesting to read them, I haven't. But if I did read them, I would realize that it was just one person's account. When you talk to different people about a subject, you get different perceptions from each person. People have mis-perceptions also when emotion is involved. So, taking any one person's story as being 100 percent accurate - that is just not very smart.
===============================
The books were not unkind. They were actually characterized by of a lot of devotion. People forget I think just how much they filled out the facile and cruel tabloid narrative of Freddie, which truly was unkind. There was a certain dovetailing of the feelings surrounding Mary's decisions in both Jim and Peter's separately written books that give their view of that period some additional credibility, but even then it wasn't entirely unkind. They seemed more confused and hurt than anything. Jim in particular seemed to feel marginalized, which is understandable in a homosexual relationship with a public person who kept his private life private. They were grieving, and that was their home, and they perhaps didn't feel ready to leave and let go of such a tangible tie with Freddie. I think their feelings then are completely understandable. But I think Mary's feelings are equally understandable. Her inheritance was an immense responsibility, both practically and to Freddie's memory, and perhaps feeling around in the dark a little in a new and daunting situation she appeared to overshoot a little. But to a quiet and reserved woman with a husband and small children, the idea of three grown men underfoot - two of whom were HIV positive - would likely be a little offputting to say the least. With such huge changes I'm sure she needed order back in her family's life as soon as practicable. I think the manner of having them leave - i.e. impersonally via Jim Beach - was the problem as much as anything else. A frank and honest and compassionate personal conversation might have gone a long way.
GratefulFan · Member since
Holly2003 wrote:
So what bit of Fred's last will and testament is Mary supposed to have broken? ================================
It was the 40,000 pounds he left for the specific purpose of establishing a foundation to tell the world that KISS SUCKS!, and that he had Paul Stanley six ways to Sunday, and always to 'Beth' on loop, at Paul's insistence.
malicedoom · Member since
:) Nice.
Also:
"I think the manner of having them leave - i.e. impersonally via Jim Beach - was the problem as much as anything else. A frank and honest and compassionate personal conversation might have gone a long way."
---
Agree completely. And I think they deserved that.
Just my $0.02.
brENsKi · Member since
GratefulFan wrote: Holly2003 wrote:
So what bit of Fred's last will and testament is Mary supposed to have broken? ================================
It was the 40,000 pounds he left for the specific purpose of establishing a foundation to tell the world that KISS SUCKS!, and that he had Paul Stanley six ways to Sunday, and always to 'Beth' on loop, at Paul's insistence. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Beth" was Peter Criss' song (and he also sang lead on it)....
surely the best song for Fred to have Paul to was "Every Time I Look At You (from behind)" think the lyrics go somehting like:
But every time I look at you, and the ass that I'm goin' thru, it's easy to see And every time I bum you, and my spunk deep inside you, seem to cum easily 'Cause you're my Paul St**ley
GratefulFan · Member since
brENsKi wrote:
"Beth" was Peter Criss' song (and he also sang lead on it)....
surely the best song for Fred to have Paul to was "Every Time I Look At You (from behind)" think the lyrics go somehting like:
But every time I look at you, and the ass that I'm goin' thru, it's easy to see
And every time I bum you, and my spunk deep inside you, seem to cum easily
'Cause you're my Paul St**ley
======================
I know it was Criss' song. Probably the only reason I can stand it.
Those lyrics are a little rough for me, but I dig the fact that despite all the indelicacy 'Stanley' was the only word you felt you needed to soften up a little. He really is that bad. Ha ha.
GratefulFan · Member since
malicedoom wrote:
Agree completely. And I think they deserved that.
Just my $0.02. ===============================
I think my point really is that it's possible for the guys to have legitimately felt hurt and treated unfairly and for Mary to have done nothing wrong, at the same time. I wasn't there of course, but just having a sense of human nature as we all do it's easy to imagine that neither party had a very good sense of the other's perspective. I really think the most likely scenario was Mary acting out of a strong sense of responsibility to take care of Freddie's estate well, which frankly meant taking control of it. To Jim and Peter and Joe it seems to have felt like being abruptly pushed aside, and I understand that. A conversation was not only owed the guys, but Mary too. I think they all deserved it. She's the one who ended up a little tarnished in the books.
jpf · Member since
TyphoonTip wrote: jpf wrote: DaveyLane wrote: I'll post whatever I please.
If you don't like it you can go fuck yourself.
As eloquent a post from you as I might have expected....
Doesn't make the aspersions you've cast any more right though. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
----
You're a hypocrite.
You're the one who doesn't have a clue. Try reading some books so that you can get a clue.
_____________________________
Really, do you have a brain injury?
The point that he and others are making, is that despite all the books you might read, or how much of an expert you profess to be, YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANY OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED, none of us did. Therefore anything we say is nothing more than presumption and/or guesswork. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.
You don't have any greater insight into this than anyone else. Yet you feel you are somehow in possession of 'the facts'?!
It amazes me how deluded some people are.
----
It's called having an opinion.
My opinion. Got it? Mary was a cunt. That's my opinion. I assume Peter, Jim, and Joe think/thought of her that way, too, when they were removed from Garden Lodge.
Bottom line is Freddie would have been pissed the way Mary treated his friends.
There is no guess work needed when two people wrote two books and basically said the same things about her.
Deluded and in denial describes you.
jpf · Member since
catqueen wrote: jpf wrote: Donna13 wrote: I have not read any of these unkind books written by so-called friends of Freddie. I would not want to spend money on that sort of thing and they don't have such books in the libraries in the United States. So, even though it might be interesting to read them, I haven't. But if I did read them, I would realize that it was just one person's account. When you talk to different people about a subject, you get different perceptions from each person. People have mis-perceptions also when emotion is involved. So, taking any one person's story as being 100 percent accurate - that is just not very smart.
But from what I've read for free online, I know that Freddie thought of Mary as his only real friend. The suggestion that she wanted him for his money is pretty ridiculous when you consider that he was not making big money when she met him. In fact, she probably considered him to be poor. I also heard from another person, who knew Mary well, that she was very kind, generous, and a good friend. ---- She wasn't a kind, generous, good friend to Peter, Joe, and Jim. The way she treated them shows how much of an unkind, greedy, shitty friend she was to Freddie. She treated Freddie's closest friends, the three friends that attended to him 24/7 while he was at his worst health-wise, like shit.
BTW, since you haven't read those "unkind" books, it makes you uninformed.
things vary depending on people's interpretation of events. I haven't read many of them either, although i have read some. Freddie was wealthy and extremely famous, that could be a factor in why people want to write books about him. Also, people made money by makiing a dramatic story. And i know some people close to Freddie did not like a lot of those books, but i can't remember where i read that, so i dont have the link to back that up. But just because someone wrote a book does not mean that the book was accurate. Freddie had other relationships that concerned some of his close friends, maybe some of them didn't like mary, that's fair enough. BUT you can't necessarily go from 'person a dislikes mary' to 'mary is a bad person, and swindled Freddie.' Those books are not like a speech at someones funeral, or an obituary. They were written for profit, and got the authors some level of 'fame' by association. Therefore, they are not totally objective. (IMO) ----
Two people writing two books who basically said the same things that had happened at Garden Lodge. I'll go with their words on the subject matter.
Your post makes it look like Peter and Jim were strangers and knew little about Freddie.
jpf · Member since
malicedoom wrote: "So what bit of Fred's last will and testament is Mary supposed to have broken?"
Great point. Freddie didn't have it IN HIS WILL requesting the 3 closest people to him while he was dying NOT be treated like shit once he passed. I guess he just EXPECTED that kind of decency from Mary, eh?
What a mistake on his part. He should have put it in the will, I suppose. ----
