DISCUSSION: 80s Queen

I think if you look at all 70s bands who made new music in the 80s and you'd make similar conclusions.

Studio and computer technology was awkward then, which makes some of the music hard to listen to as bands used the new technology to sound "current".

Add Freddie being influenced by the music he was hearing in the gay clubs and John wanting to do funk and bowls of cocaine.. you get Hot Space.

(edit to add, that unknowingly, I pretty much just repeated what the above poster said.  Well done sir!)

For the record, I love '80s Queen, including the solo albums.

I have a few thoughts to add to the discussion:

Further to the "Everyone was doing it" posts, I'd like to add that, on a larger scale, music continually evolves. It's influenced by new technologies and talented artists, and not just in the 20th Century, but pretty much since humans started making music.

Queen were always influenced by other artists at the same time as bringing their own ideas and sounds to the larger musical palette. Queen did not come charging onto the scene ready to revolutionize music. They eased in with a Zeppelin-esque rock sound and gradually established their territory. It's important to keep in mind that even as they found their place, the musical landscape was still shifting underneath them and everyone else. Disco came forward in the mid-'70s, then Punk in the late '70s, followed by New Wave in the early '80s.

And Queen was a part of it all, still affected by their peers.

They added funk and disco many years before Hot Space (the seeds were sewn during the NOTW and Jazz eras). As Disco music evolved into the dance club music of the early '80s, so did Queen's sound when they delved into those genres. What began as Roger's experiments with funkiness ("I Wanna Testify," "Turn On The TV," "Fight From The Inside," "Fun It") became the band as a whole trying these different sounds out. They were influenced by (and influenced) other artists, working with Bowie, Billy Squier and Michael Jackson. They weren't playing heavy blues rock as much anymore because they'd already explored it and wanted to try new things.

The technology evolved and Queen adopted it, not out of a need to capitalize on what was popular, but because they, as artists, were interested in what was going on around them. Nothing really changed in that influence system in the '80s. What a lot of people react to, in my opinion, is a false sense of "Queen were trailblazers in the '70s, but lost it in the '80s."

I must emphasize that this is separate from simply not liking many of the sounds of the '80s. Yes, the '80s were quite synth-heavy in terms of popular music. Like all eras, there was good music, great music and crappy music between 1980 and 1989.  We only remember the good and great music (mostly) from any given time because that's just naturally what happens. We generally don't hear the crap in movies, on the radio, in TV shows. 

As Queen fans, we don't have the luxury of weeding out the music they made with we don't like (though I have to say I'm amused by some fans attempts to do just that, by not acknowledging Queen+ collaborations they disapprove of). Sitting on our shelves and in our Windows folders is the entire catalogue, "Body Language" and "The March Of The Black Queen" side by side. If they were by two different bands, it would be easy to delete the tracks you don't like, but alas, such is the burden of being a fan of a band with a diverse output. 

Unless, of course, you like most everything they did, then there's no real problem.

horse feathers wrote: First of all, let me say, I am 46. Seven seas of Rhye got me into Queen, when I was 8.  Those of a similar age to me also remember making sure we was in at 7 o'clock on a Thursday night, when Bo Rhap was No 1 and to make sure we could see the wonderful video, on Top of The Pops.
 If the first album I had heard by Queen was 'The Works' or 'A Kind Of Magic', it is fair to say I wouldn't be a fan of theirs today.. 'The Game' was the last great album they made. I went to Leeds in 1982 on my own from Manchester, as a 17 year old kid. It was incredible. I was right near the front of the stage, I couldn't hear properly the next day. Compare that to 'The Magic tour', which I saw in Manchester, I was very dissapointed, I was further back, with mates this time, haha. I couldn't see them nor hear them, I thought they was going through the motions.
 The Works tour in 84, they announced 4 dates in England, 2 at Birmingham NEC, 2 at Wembley Arena, I got tickets for all of them. Then they added 2 more dates, Grrr, I couldn't get tickets. Let me tell you, Elland Road was unforgettable, but The Works tour get's so much stick, it really annoys me. Let me tell you, you couldn't tell Roger was playing those silly drums on the night its self. You are in the moment, singing away, loving everyone, Remember it was a Queen gig. They did Liar, Great King Rat, Killer Queen, Keep yourself alive. They was absolutely awesome. Imagine seeing Queen, live, indoors? I did 4 times. I'd pick an indoor gig every time over an outdoor one.
 Back to the albums, Innuendo, was a great album. 'Hot Space' was better than people thought it was. They are the only two albums I could listen to by them after The Game. Although, Magic, Gaga and Break free were great live, cos they Queened them up, I.e. Guitars and drums.
 I have one question though, Am I the only one that thinks 'Dancer' is a hidden Gem?
 Also bear in mind, other bands who were succesful in the 70's were never as succesful as Queen were in the 80's, cos Queen moved with the times, so fair play to them. They was not Freddies band, nor any of the other three, They were Queen. And I wouldn't change a thing they ever did, That's why we love them, and they to me were, are, still the best band ever, bar none. Paul.
 P.S. I'm not having a pop at people who got into Queen in the 80's, either.

I think Dancer is pretty cool. I used to listen to Magic and the Works in the late 80s but as time has gone by , they are possibly the albums I listen to the least . I have never analysed the reasons why but I think its no coincidence that after The Game , Freddie took all lead vocals , suggesting that the band were a little more contrived in what they were aiming for and the package they wanted to present .

Soundfreak wrote: What is strange in these rating discussions is, that people - especially the younger fans - think there was the world and Queen and nothing else.

Queen were linked with the times they lived in. In the 70s multitracking was the new big thing in the studios with suddenly over 40 tracks on one tape available. And Queen played with that. So did many other bands like 10cc, ELO...Sweet....ABBA...  whoever. 

When Punk arrived Queen moved away from the big production and "News of the World" was the result. 

In the 80s there was the electronic explosion. Digital recording and editing became the big thing. It was suddenly hip to programm drums instead of playing them. So did many bands and artist - not only Queen. The results were "Hot Space" and "The Works". On their later albums they may have tried to bring all together, the multitracking sound of the 70s and the digital recording. 

So it's quite funny, when people wonder how Queen could do an album like "Hot Space" or dare to go away from their 70s sound. 
Everyone did, ELO went disco at one point and sent the orchestra home, The Sweet tried Funk. The Sparks went into electronic and dance.....Even the Stones explored some strange adventures like "Emotional Rescue".

But many other contemporary bands did not survive those changes unlike Queen. And that makes "Queen" quite unique.

Interesting about ELO and The Sweet experimenting with different sounds. I believe that it is best way for a band to survive and it makes their back catalouge more interesting. Bands like AC/DC have kept the same sound throughout their career that can eventually make their music boring.

I like bands or artists that evolve their sound and stand out as superstars in different musical styles in different decades. With Queen, there are some parts of their 1980s sound that I like and some I don't. I would probably like more of Queen's 80s material if it weren't for the fact that drum machines and bass keyboards were used. When listening to sheer musical quality of Queen's live performence and complete, deep and wide sound on acoustic songs (like Save Me, It's a Hard Life) it's hard not to be disapointed when the rhythm of certain songs seems flat, singing does not fit and lack of Brian's epic guitar work. I think a song like Machines emphasises the conflict of Queen's sound in the 1980s with the electronic, fake drums/bass and synths overload (that sounds flat without any musical substance) and the acoustic, lively music that has far more power and energy.

So, yes on some Queen tracks in the 80s were disapointing however during live performances and some solo work you can quite clearly see how good a drummer Roger is and a guitarist Brian is. In my opinion, perhaps it was good thing that Roger sacrificed his drumming on certain tracks and Brian didn't use the guitar as much because that shows not a group individual musicans but a group of musicians that are able to work as a team. Sadly, quite obviously the music produced throughout the decade was far away the standard of that of the 1970s.

You can correct me if you like but the following show Queen tracks that have either drum machines, synth bass or someone else playing bass.

The Game:

Coming Soon (The Game - 1980) - According to Queenpedia, nobody is sure who played Bass between Roger and John.

Verdict - The Game is a very good album, the band is working well collectively as a group. John may have not played bass on Coming Soon?

Hot Space:

Staying Power (Hot Space - 1982) - Freddie did the drum machine, synth bass although Roger played some elec..drums.

Dancer (Hot Space - 1982) - Brian played the drum machine, synth bass, Roger played some drums and John did absolutely nothing.

Back Chat (Hot Space - 1982) - John did drum machines although Roger played some drums.

Body Language (Hot Space - 1982) - Freddie played drum machines, synth bass, Roger had some elec drums. John had no involvement, Brian had very little.

Action this Day (Hot Space - 1982) - No drum machine, synth bass played by either Freddie, Mack, Roger. Mack played some synths aswell as John had no involvement (so much for John's funk album!).

Cool Cat (Hot Space - 1982) - John played Drum machine. Roger and Brian had no involvement.

Verdict - The band's poorest album musically and lacked ideas. The best songs saw all Queen members playing together and playing authentic instrements. Roger did not drum on (or drummed part of it) 5/11 tracks. John did not play bass on 4/11 tracks. John/Roger/Brian had no involvement/little on 4/4/2 tracks. This disjointedness shows arguments in the group.

The Works:

Radio Ga Ga (The Works - 1984) - Roger did play some drums and programed Drum machines. Synths done by Fred Mandel.

Man on the Prowl (The Works - 1984) - Fred Mandel played piano finale.

Machines (The Works - 1984) - Roger played drums, elec drums and drum machine.

I Want to Break Free (The Works - 1984) - Roger may have played no drums and John may have controlled drum machine. Fred Mandel did synth solo.

Hammer to Fall (The Works - 1984) - Fred Mandel played synths.

Is this the World We Created (The Works - 1984) - Roger and John had no involvement (nothing wrong with that).

Verdict - Far better album that Hot Space. Roger may not have played at all on 2/9 tracks and John on 1/9 tracks. Fred Mandel played all synths on Ga Ga. Drum Machines can be found on 3/9 tracks whereas Roger played no drums on I Want to Break Free.

A Kind of Magic:

A Kind of Magic (A Kind of Magic - 1986) - Roger played some drums though he also programed the drum machine.

One Year of Love (A Kind of Magic - 1986) - John did drum programing. No one knows if Roger did some drums/tambourine. Steve Gregory played sax, Lynton Naiff string arrangement (nothing wrong with that).

Pain is So Close to Pleasure (A Kind of Magic - 1986) - Roger played some drums and John performed drum machine.

Who Wants to Live Forever (A Kind of Magic - 1986) - Brian did drum progaming. Roger had little involvement and John had none.

Don't Lose Your Head (A Kind of Magic - 1986) - Roger played some drums aswell as programing them.

Verdict - Poorer album than the Works and far more disjointed aswell. John had no involvement on one song, Roger had no involvement on 1/2 songs. Brian had no involvement on one track. Drum machine on 5 tracks, no drums by Roger on 2 tracks. More drum machines = poorer album.

The Miracle:

Party (The Miracle - 1989) - Freddie and Roger did drum programing although Roger played some drums.

I Want it All (The Miracle - 1989) - Roger played drums and Freddie or Roger may have programmed some drums.

Breakthru (The Miracle - 1989) - Roger played drums and programmed some of the drums.

Rain Must Fall (The Miracle - 1989) - Roger played Drums as Dave Richards programed some of them.

My Baby Does Me (The Miracle - 1989) - Roger had no involvement as Richards programed the drums.

Verdict - Better album than A Kind of Magic and musically more daring and more accomplished than the Works, perhaps their best release since The Game bar 2 songs. Roger played drums on every track except one and he did not perform at all on one track. Drum machine featured on 5/10 tracks.

Innuendo:

I'm Going Slightly Mad (Innuendo - 1991) - Drums by Roger and programmed drums by Freddie and Roger.

Headlong (Innuendo - 1991) - Drums by Roger and drum programing by Brian.

I Can't Live With You (Innuendo - 1991) - All drums programed by Brian and Roger has little involvement.

Ride the Wild Wind (Innuendo - 1991) - Roger played drums and some drum programing. John may have played bass?

Delilah (Innuendo - 1991) - Freddie did drum programing. Roger had no involvement.

Bijou (Innuendo - 1991) - Roger and John had no involvement (no problem with that)

Verdict - Good album although it may not be quite as good as the Miracle. It is also quite disjointed as Roger has little

Keep in mind that even if, say, Roger, didn't play an instrument on a track, it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't voice his thoughts, help craft the song or offer ideas during the production. How literally do we interpret a band member's presence on a track? Certainly there are times when a song is done and the person who didn't play on it says, "Yeah, it's fine as is. Nothing I can add to it," but before an album comes out, each member (I'd imagine) would want a say in every track, especially since their name is attached to the album as a band member.

There's also the fact that even if, again to Roger as an example, he didn't play drums on "I Can't Live With You," he still sings on it as part of the back-up harmonies.

Basically, contributing to a song isn't strictly limited to recording an instrument on it.

Just throwing that out there.

I haven't posted much in here but this 80s thing has been around for a while in different fashions and there seems to be lotsa negative perception by many fans about Queen's second decade so let me put in my opinion. The Game was uneven with many good songs ans a few weaker but no really bad ones and i see the album perhaps as Queen's most American second only to News of the World. Hot Space obviously a hot topic , it's daring and i congratulate the band for doing it. Not their best album but they showed a lot of balls. Also many people call it a commercial dissapointment  yet if i remember right it reached top 5 in the UK and Germany top 10 in the US and by now musta sold over 5 million copies worldwide, of course compared to other albums it's " dissapointing" . I disregard Flash as an album since it's a real soundtrack and it's hard to compare to studio work but i love it and over the years it has gained more and more critical approval. Now to The Works, i have seen lots of bickering on this forum about the album ( drum machines etc. ) The Works is in my top 5 Queen albums , it's daring in many ways. In some ways it has a theme to it not quite a concept album but close to it . Radio Ga in my humble opinion a pop masterpiece and yes one of Queen's best songs, nostalgic, critical yet over the top Queen at their best. Now to the perhaps most disliked song " Machines" the song is a masterpiece. Musical machines fighting guitars , computer voices vs human voices, this song reflects in many ways on whats going on in 80s society and within Queen themself on where to go musically. The song works for me on every level . Then there are Hammer to fall ans Is this the World we created, both are part of the album theme in different ways. The other songs compliment the theme very well, i never understood the bickering about Keep passing the open Window, great pop song by Freddie and fits well in his resume, the song makes me smile and puts me in a good mood, tasteful keyboards , wonderful guitars and his voice is amazing. Anybody that dislikes I want to break free i have nothing to say to that. In many ways The Works was ahead of it's time ans for me sounds still relevant and up to date in 2011. A kind of Magic a drop off from The Works in my opinion but hell i could be wrong. The Highlander songs are good to great but for me it seems the album was rushed just to be released in time . Now to The Miracle, wow its BETTER  Than The Works. I remember back in 89 many critics in German ( where i grew up) loved it called it Queen's hardest album since Jazz yet i slightly disagree with that. It seems a bit harder , i think its thighter perhaps maybe because of the change the band made on sharing the credits ( great idea ) . In many ways The Miracle is their most optimistic album and i play it as much as A night at the Opera cause it puts me in a good mood and i find it brilliant. . Was Queen as good in the 80s than the 70s ? Not as daring and innovative but great nevertheless. Most bands do their most important wotk within their first 5 years ( The Beatles being one excepetion ) Queen fits into that but the released still good to great music more than any other band music i love and still listen to today. Also even in their later years the were very busy , the longest between albums was 3 years, seemed like an eternity back then yet big band these days take off 5 years and more. Enough oi my rambling ......Peace

1986. What a year. That damn year.

I got my first tape with music from "a certain band called Queen" from a friend, who used to go to our local icehockey club here in cologne, germany. The club was huge in the 80's, scoring a lot of championships, and of course, WWRY and WATC was played at every game.
I was more into football (or soccer, that is, for our US friends), and even though my club - 1. FC Köln of course - hadn't been THAT succesful... (and hasn't been since... come on FC! :-) ), I knew that strange "stomp-stomp-clap" and kinda liked it. I was 10 years old.

Anyway, my mate liked it so much, that he bought their current album, and tried to persuade me that this is great music. He gave me the cassette he recorded from the vinyl (god, we're old), with some songs from GH 1 on the flipside.
Before I first played it, my brother, 11 years senior and into AC/DC at the time, told me that this is gay crap, and I shouldn't even consider listening to that stuff. I love my bro, but we still talk about that incident...
But being 10, and really uncool, because of listening only to radio play and some sort of music for kids, comparable perhaps to the "Teletubbies" some 10 years later... I WANTED to play that tape.

Okay, I put the said tape into my cassette recorder (feels like talking about the invention of the gramophone), and played it.

ONE VISION. THAT intro. THE riff. I was hooked. Forever. After that: sheer brilliancy.

Within 6 months I bought every album - yes, on vinyl - from my pocket money, AKOM being the first, GH 1 being the second. Dunno the order of the others, but Jazz and NOTW were soon to follow.

The strange thing is: my father is a professional classical musician, choirmaster and organist, and I am absolutely proud of his work and career (only in our local catholic community, but he's a great musician, a fantastic chap, and he taught me to play piano), but the thing that really got me into music and playing in bands, is the group my brother used to call gay crap.

The downside is: my mate gave me the tape in the summer of `86. I started to buy the albums around september. We did not really notice that certain band was on tour (we were kids). We missed the cologne stadium show on june 19th. I missed seeing Queen live on stage. Freddie. It was a matter of weeks. WEEKS!!!!! Even attending wonderful and fantastic concerts of The Cross, Brian and QPR can not compensate that.

AKOM for me is the album that got me into this monster called Queen. Not my favourite album, but I have a soft spot for it. So, to finally get to the topic: as many people have said here before, Queen were a band always trying to combine their trademarks with what was going on at the time.
For me their 80's output after "The Game" is all about exploring the technical possibilities of the time, and focusing on the atmosphere and mood that can be created musically by the devices available.

That may not match their pure genius in terms of songwriting, or playing the classic "rock" instruments, from the 70's, but I do love tracks like Back Chat, Cool Cat (feel free to insult me), Machines, Keep passing the open windows (what a great song), Don't lose your head AND yes, A dozen red roses for my darling, for the feeling and atmosphere they create.

And of course, AKOM will always hold a special place in my heart, for giving me the first insight into a magical world of music.

The 80's discussion is missing an important point - AKOM and TM are very much of their time, as are QII or Jazz. That's what music sounded like in 1986 / 89. I guess it's only people who got into Queen well after that that can look at the albums objectively. There's nothing wrong with thsoe albums (theres as much rubbish on them as anything from the debut up to The Game) it's just they are very dated. Not as much as Made In Heaven, mind which to me sounds like it was done in 1985 rather than the early 90's.