Jealousy Kick Drum - Mistake on 2011 Remaster?!?

Very interesting, I will have a listen to the original again...

BTW to the fella that said ''it's only a bass drum"   That's like the most important part of any rock, jazz, punk, country, soul,etc track....so fairly essentail really

Togg wrote: Very interesting, I will have a listen to the original again...

BTW to the fella that said ''it's only a bass drum"   That's like the most important part of any rock, jazz, punk, country, soul,etc track....so fairly essentail really
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I would be that fella, and I don't agree with you. But have it your way.

I'm terrified it's going to sound like a  Junior Vasquez remix! Hope it's subtle.

dysan wrote: I'm terrified it's going to sound like a  Junior Vasquez remix! Hope it's subtle.
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Don't panic!!   It's essentially as they probably intended back when the album was originally released  (less the now infamous beat discussed here of course!!)

I'm sure it's just because it sounds so unexpected because it was originally missing, but to me the kick on this one track sounds better than the rest of the album!

Haha - probably where the whole remastering budget went.

Rick wrote: Togg wrote: Very interesting, I will have a listen to the original again...

BTW to the fella that said ''it's only a bass drum"   That's like the most important part of any rock, jazz, punk, country, soul,etc track....so fairly essentail really
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I would be that fella, and I don't agree with you. But have it your way.
Actually it was bambams-paradise who said that, didn't see your comment...Ha, but hey each to there own as you say.
Personally I feel the bass drum is thr driving force behind most songs, it's what the bass player locks into and works around, it defines the pace and holds the track together. no dance record would work without it, and IMO no rock track. Now I am sure there are exceptions but you get the drift.

Anyway my opinion there you have it...

According to the sleeve notes the base drum has not been "restored", but "reinstated". English is not my native language, but maybe this hint helps to find out what was really done. Discuss ;)

To be honest I never noticed that the base drum was missing until now, the song sounds strange to me now. So imho they should have left it as it was.

horse feathers wrote: Another mistake, like the piano in Don't stop me now.

which mistake in don't stop me now?

There's been no comment from Greg or Gary here, and I've emailed the 'Experts' page at Brian's site to see if he, JSS or Josh Mc can comment, but met with silence.  From this, I assume that the missing beat pointed out in my original IS indeed missing, and is therefore an error.

By the way, this thread was intended purely to discuss whether that single kick drum beat was missing, not to discuss the ethics of whether it should actually have been 'reinstated' at all, but all the discussion has been good!

Perhaps it's actually a deliberate mistake so that we all rush out and buy Jazz again when it is reissued once more with 'reinstated reinstated bass drum' !!!

Could be worse. Look at the differences between the 1987 original and the 2001 reissue of Michael Jackson's Bad album. Restoring a bass drum that may or may not have been an honest mistake to begin with is nothing compared with that. Or Mike Oldfield's Platinum album, where, after two pressings, an entire song was removed and replaced, but the label wasn't changed on any subsequent release, so for 30 years the wrong title has been assigned to a song on the album, but other releases use the correct name. And fans are hoping that the original is restored to the forthcoming Deluxe Edition (with the replaced track as a bonus, because it is a good song). The restoration is to its place on the album is key, because, like "Tenement Funster," "Flick Of The Wrist" and "Lily Of The Valley," this removed song fits in the middle of a three track segue, and the edits on either end are awkward, to say the least.

Well... we have an answer to my original question to the 'experts' at Brian's site on this issue (thanks to them).

It seems that Roy Thomas Baker left the kick drum out of the original mix of Jazz by mistake!  it says that Roger was no there to pick this up.  Presumably therefore none of the rest of the band was there either as they would have spotted this? 

It raises a much bigger issue in that it seems that the band were therefore not present at the very final mix of Jazz (and very possibly therefore not for other albums either?).  This really surprises me.  Even if the band we not present for the mix, surely they would be played a copy to approve before the album went to press, at which point someone would notice the missing kick drum and order a revised mix??

In light of this, I wonder how possible is it that other instruments, parts etc.. are not present on final mixes of other songs of the original issues that were intended to be there??

My main question as to whether one of the beats is missing is answered by the 'experts' with "How could you possibly be concerned about something so trivial. . . I don't care".  Does this sum up the attitude of the current QPL audio team???  Yes, this could be seen as a 'trivial' mistake, but to me it's a mistake none the less.  This flippant repsonse clearly shows they have no pride in their work or attention to detail, or respresenting the material as it was intended.  Mistakes, poor mixes, errors in sleeve notes, mistakes with the exhibition details etc...etc... are all sadly too prevelant, and whilst a genuine mistake can be forgiven my me, the reaction and response to this being pointed out to them can't be forgiven.

cmsdrums wrote: Well... we have an answer to my original question to the 'experts' at Brian's site on this issue (thanks to them).

It seems that Roy Thomas Baker left the kick drum out of the original mix of Jazz by mistake!  it says that Roger was no there to pick this up.  Presumably therefore none of the rest of the band was there either as they would have spotted this? 

It raises a much bigger issue in that it seems that the band were therefore not present at the very final mix of Jazz (and very possibly therefore not for other albums either?).  This really surprises me.  Even if the band we not present for the mix, surely they would be played a copy to approve before the album went to press, at which point someone would notice the missing kick drum and order a revised mix??
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Call me cynical, but that sounds like a steaming load. It simply doesn't ring true. There have been multiple interviews etc., particularly during the 70s stating, and restating, how fastidious and meticulous they were; particularly with mixing tracks. It wasn't uncommon for multiple mixes to be made until the desired result was achieved.

Secondly, it was FREDDIE'S TRACK!! a) Why was Roy apparently mixing the track on his own? ...Doesn't make sense. b) Why was Roger the delegated member of the band to check Roy's mix, while Freddie was nowhere to be seen. ...Doesn't make sense on multiple levels

So what we're left with, is QP telling us that a band known for their perfectionism left it to others to mix their tracks. More than that, they didn't even CHECK THEM prior to pressing? Despite; a) spending an outrageous amount of time carefully crafting often complicated vocal/guitar harmonies etc... & b) Reams of evidence to the contrary detailing the attention they paid not only to mixing, but to the physical pressing of their records.

I would suggest that is at least seven shades of bullshit.

Well, bizarrely the experts response to me has been removed from Brian's site already - very odd

I think the answer's fairly simple: the mix was done by Freddie and Roy, and neither noticed the omission. Freddie was probably more concerned about his piano and vocal bits. He was a very meticulous musician who, in most cases, cared a lot about both his bits and the others', but he was not perfect and maybe the occasional detail escaped him, and that may have been the case.

Yes, the reply has been removed from Brain's page. i bet someone tipped him off and he had  a fit over the reply.
How strange that they'll mess about with autotune and overdubbing, yet they "don't care" about a beat being missing!

Personally they should have left it alone on the album and used the reinstated version for Deep Cuts 2 only as it still bugs me that I'm now stuck with listening to a different version of a song that's been out for 32 years. It's just WRONG!!

That said, I still stand by theory that someone cocked up and incorrectly used the re-instated mix when delivering the album to island for processing to CD and the error was only spotted AFTER thousands of CDs had been manufactured.
This would explain why the second batch release date was put back a few weeks to the end of June as it was easier and cheaper to reprint the booklets.
If this IS the case, then someone at QPL should have the balls to admit it.

If it WASN'T a mistake, then they should have included the "orignal" version on the bonus disc.

I know I'm being anal, but hey, I'm one of those guys who wants to watch Star Wars as it originally was and not George Lucas' expended abortions.