Amy Winehouse died

Your outlook is overly simple.  Where I live, the same thing happens to people who live in neighbourhoods with a lot of indigenous people in them - to these people, our natives are all a mob of useless, violent drunks, because they see the worst examples and are forced to deal with them every day.  It becomes impractical to remember that they're still people and that they aren't defined by your experiences; it's much easier to make an assumption about them and get on with life.

I'm not having a go at you here, you've just illustrated something I see a lot.  We tend to write-off certain kinds of people as hopeless because it's a lot easier than helping them - no one person is to blame, but at a societal level, this "not my problem" attitude is a big-ass factor in why things are so shitty for a lot of people.  And again, it doesn't make us bad people - why should we get kicked in the face while trying to help a crazy horse?  (Admittedly a poor metaphor, but there you go).  Still, it's a situation that really is more complicated than good or bad, and you sound like you need to step back from the issue and gain some perspective on it.  Your experience of addicts tells you certain things about them - this is fine, but your experience is not the whole story.

@ Zebonka

I appreciate that you're not having a go, but my outlook is not overly simple - not only have I lived around this situation, I have lived WITH it.  I have first hand experience of living with an addict, and am now living with someone who is related to another addict.  They beg, they steal, they take food directly from their children's mouths just to have enough money to feed their addiction.  They are abusive, they are incoherent, they are irrational and irresponsible.  They can be aggressive, violent and dangerous, hurtful, insensitive - the lot.  And all because they hide behind an excuse.  An excuse that soon turns into another, and another, and then lies.  All of this I HAVE LIVED WITH, and know others in the same boat.  Some people get sucked in, and want help.  Some people just use it as an excuse, to make people feel sorry for them.  There is no *reason* to become an alcoholic or a drug addict.  I think my experiences, and those of the others I know, tell a massive part of the story.  Having witnessed it first hand, I think I am more than entitled to say what I'm saying.

I didn't miss that part of your other posts.  Keep in mind that when you say "they", you're talking an awfully big sample group.  Have you met every addict?  No.  I don't like waving semantics around, but the truth is you don't know them all.  You know the ones that you have dealt with.  You have valid reasons for having these feelings, and it'd be unreasonable to expect someone in your position to be completely unbiased on a topic like drug dependency.

There's no 'but' after that sentence, by the way.  All that I am saying (because I've spent some time with addicted people, although I've never shared a dwelling) is that your story - while very relevant to you and the area you live in - is not the whole one.  For all of those bad drug stories, there are those with happy endings, and they wouldn't have happened if people had all had a "good riddance to another dead junkie" attitude.

Zebonka12 wrote: I didn't miss that part of your other posts.  Keep in mind that when you say "they", you're talking an awfully big sample group.  Have you met every addict?  No.  I don't like waving semantics around, but the truth is you don't know them all.  You know the ones that you have dealt with.  You have valid reasons for having these feelings, and it'd be unreasonable to expect someone in your position to be completely unbiased on a topic like drug dependency.

There's no 'but' after that sentence, by the way.  All that I am saying (because I've spent some time with addicted people, although I've never shared a dwelling) is that your story - while very relevant to you and the area you live in - is not the whole one.  For all of those bad drug stories, there are those with happy endings, and they wouldn't have happened if people had all had a "good riddance to another dead junkie" attitude.
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Yeah, there are happy endings - and luckily, that has happened in my instance too, because I don't take the "I don't care" attitude with folk who genuinely want help.  But for those who just hide behind it, and waste every chance they get, sod them.  Winehouse was one of those halfwits, christ she even wrote a song about it.

"folk who genuinely want help"

And that's sort of what I was getting at.  We mentally separate people who are really asking for our help, and people we deem to be faking it.  What bothers me is that a lot of the time, we get that wrong.  Even people with self destructive tendencies can need help - keeping in mind that I say 'need' and not 'want'.  

"Winehouse was one of those halfwits, christ she even wrote a song about it."

Obviously, I didn't know her.  The song could be non-fiction, or it could be designed to sell records to kids who all think they'll grow up to be in the 27 Club (hyuk hyuk).  I don't want to be one of these knob-ends who comes out of the woodwork to paint her as some kind of saint - I'll admit right here that I laughed my arse off at her Belgrade performance - but when you get to the point of saying 'good riddance' about someone you've never met, I think (personally) that's a bit far*.  It could possibly be because I tend towards being a bit too nice to people (outside of this forum, that is) but where most people have seen 'worthless junkie', I've been more prone to see 'person in need of intervention'.  When you wind up with a dead body, then that person has failed themselves, and her friends and family will feel that they failed her in not stopping it from happening.  It might not be a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it really isn't anything to celebrate.

*  The usual disclaimer applies that I think what I think and you think what you think, etc.  I'm not begrudging you your opinion, I just think this is an interesting topic, hehe.

It's too bad that she died. I was a little surprised that it happened so suddenly, but I can't say I didn't see this coming. However, I really can't understand the flood of ridiculous attempts at compliments - musicians comparing her voice to Billie Holiday's, with whom she had very little in common except a degree of "unpolishedness". Sure, she contributed to music - I didn't like her music, but that's really not very important - but the way they make it appear as if she was the most influential thing to happen in the world of music since the invention of polyphony is just ridiculous - and it makes a mockery out of her, which I don't really think she deserved. I think it is sad that the person died, and I especially feel sorry for her parents, but I don't think it's right to overstate her contribution to music, and I can't honestly say I will miss her music. I hope I don't offend anyone with this, but I sincerely doubt whether her name will still be known fifty years from now.

I was sad to hear this news.  I only saw her once or twice on TV.  I was very impressed with her.  I found her charming and she had very good stage presence.

Zebonka12 wrote:

"We mentally separate people who are really asking for our help, and people we deem to be faking it.  What bothers me is that a lot of the time, we get that wrong.  Even people with self destructive tendencies can need help - keeping in mind that I say 'need' and not 'want'.  

yeah, but even when help is needed, the person in question still has to want it.  If there's no actual attempt to seek help, or there is a resistance to help offered, then that's when time and effort become wasted.  That's time better spent on someone who wants help.  It's the wasters who evidently don't give a fuck about themselves and don't want the help that I say "sod it" to.

"when you get to the point of saying 'good riddance' about someone you've never met, I think (personally) that's a bit far*"

Maybe.  But I can't help the way I feel.  I think the fact I've never met her is irrelevant, even if I had met her I'd still feel the same.

*  The usual disclaimer applies that I think what I think and you think what you think, etc.  I'm not begrudging you your opinion, I just think this is an interesting topic, hehe.

I know you're not, and same applies to you :)  And yep, it's a very interesting subject!

cobain....joplin.....morrison....hendrix.....winehouse
....all musicians who died aged 27........

how old are Jedward?

brENsKi wrote: cobain....joplin.....morrison....hendrix.....winehouse
....all musicians who died aged 27........

how old are Jedward?
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Jedward died ages ago!

http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/07/for-amy/

I rather enjoyed what Russell Brand had to say on the subject.

Thistleboy 1980 wrote: @ Zebonka

I appreciate that you're not having a go, but my outlook is not overly simple - not only have I lived around this situation, I have lived WITH it.  I have first hand experience of living with an addict, and am now living with someone who is related to another addict.  They beg, they steal, they take food directly from their children's mouths just to have enough money to feed their addiction.  They are abusive, they are incoherent, they are irrational and irresponsible.  They can be aggressive, violent and dangerous, hurtful, insensitive - the lot.  And all because they hide behind an excuse.  An excuse that soon turns into another, and another, and then lies.  All of this I HAVE LIVED WITH, and know others in the same boat.  Some people get sucked in, and want help.  Some people just use it as an excuse, to make people feel sorry for them.  There is no *reason* to become an alcoholic or a drug addict.  I think my experiences, and those of the others I know, tell a massive part of the story.  Having witnessed it first hand, I think I am more than entitled to say what I'm saying.

No one wants to be addicted to Drugs my man!.......The biggest mistake people make is trying these drugs for the first time because all their friends are doing it.  ususally, when their very young and stupid.  Once the party is over, and the person is addicted to the drug, either the person get's help and stay's clean or dies....it's not easy staying clean.  some people can't shake it.......  like you, i also lived with an addict.....it's a nightmare for everyone involved,  but in the end,  it's important to remember these people as a whole, and not only the way they passed.  Don't only remember those last few years when they became a desperate Junky, but,  Remember them as they were before,   If they were a happy, smart and loving person before the drugs took hold of them, i rather remember them that way.    Not saying you're wrong, but i probably have a different opinion than you.......

Though I've never been a fan, I feel bad for her and her family. Mostly her family.

"I rather enjoyed what Russell Brand had to say on the subject. "

I quite agree, it's the first thing he's said in ages that hasn't given me diarrhoea.

her ashes are going for £180 a gram,pete doherty was first in the queue