rhyeking! Wow, wow, wow. Where to start. I post infrequently, but scan all the time so I know that if you're not an apologist or enabler, you see little wrong with what Queen and QPL do. So, FWIW, a rebuttal of sorts:
"I feel too many of the critics of Queen's activities since Freddie died take a conveniently black and white view of things, and I think it's part deliberate (to justify their criticisms) and part nostalgic (longing for "the good old days")."
That's fair. Queen were once a living, breathing band making timeless music. Now, 50% of that band is not involved, and the remaining 50% are salesmen. I guess I see that as black, as I was turned on by their music, not how many records they sold.
"The idea of "The Legacy" is one created out of both those views, but does not conform to reality."
That's your view of reality and it's narrow minded. If the view is sales and increasing them and interest in the band, you are correct, no harm to the legacy. If your view is that the catalogue is the 2nd greatest in the history of popular music and worthy of reverence and quality control, with a goal of focusing on the song(s) greatness, you are wrong.
"Any project Queen fails at now will make little to no impact historically."
In your opinion. The Wal-Mart album, Pepsi, the musical, Robbie Williams etc. haven't added one thing to the Queen legacy. Maybe added a few fans? Sure. Maybe made them look like hangers on peddling 30 year old records? Your call. Not a legacy builder. You (or I, or Brian and Roger) don't get to choose the legacy, but early returns on the above projects aren't that they're building on their early successes. That's like saying Freddie dying of AIDS or defying a UN boycott by playing Sun city isn't part or their legacy because Radio Ga GA hit #1 in 19 countries.
"Now, about the selfishness of certain fans, this is what I see:A) If it doesn't cater to the seasoned, long-time fans, they think it's a waste, a cop-out, a sell-out and/or gouging. The problem with this view: It ignores the need of Queen to continue promoting their work."
Ludicrous. The NEED of Queen to continue promoting their work? What need? Do Brian and Roger NEED help to pay their bills? No.
"What would you have them do? Do nothing and stagnate, preserving their work like a museum?"
The Queen Extravaganza is basically a live museum. It's not Queen, and has nothing to do with Queen. It's a reality show on the road (which BTW, Roger and Brian, who are turning into the biggest hypocrites in music) apparently despise. Unless of course they can make money at it.
"The Musical, Queen+ projects and "reality" TV appearances cheapen their music."
Good point.
"There is such a thing as compromise, where Queen cannot change that these promotional outlets exist, but they are not using them to inform their artistic decisions."
ARTISTIC!!! If you believe this is about art, then I understand where you've lost the plot. Money and art are different beasts. Queen's contemporaries (someone mentioned Pink Floyd's recent release) are working on securing their legacies. Queen is working on licencing Keep Passing the Open Windows to a suicide prevention hotline in Bolivia for 10.0000 pounds.
"The problem: These fans are very vocal about their disdain for the work released during the '80s, an apparent lowering of standards by the classic line up, yet apply "The Legacy" argument against nearly anything the band does after Freddie died, as if the "standard" suddenly dropped in 1991 and not before for them. Which is it, people? You can't have it both ways!"
Which is it? The 80s output was shit. but it was shit for a band who tried. For me, Queen through Jazz, uneven as it was, was a 7 album run of genius. But it wore on the band, and as a long time fan speaking only for himself, I'm glad they tried dance, pop, and whatever the hell they tried otherwise they'd be AC/DC or KISS, bands who album one and album twenty offered little change. But the issue is that as a fan from the 70s, they were innovators of the first degree, supreme risk takers making timeless music. Now they are a business flogging product that is 40 fucking years old with little effort. The standard dropeed rhyeking, but if you like it, buy it, as you are the target market and I'm a bitter old guy who they know won't buy anyhting until they make an effort :)
LapOfTheGods1986 · Member since
Well...to be fair, rhyeking, I think some of the blatant criticism IS because at least a section of the fans care and were hoping Brian and Roger hadn't given up creatively yet. Plus, given the swiftness of the way it seemed to end with Freddie's death, fans DO feel a little robbed of so much they could have easily known or gotten from the group. I admit, there have been fans who have bashed them to no end no matter what they do, but there have also been people who have defended them in the fond hope that the next thing they might do would be a good thing that would result in some really good creative work. If one cared about a group wouldn't one also be the most critical of it because you know their potential? My personal beef with QE is that Brian and Roger still have it in them to do much better, and IMHO they proved it with TCR. For some people TCR isn't good because Brian and Roger AREN'T third-rate musicians, they're integral members of the band Queen and are therefore capable of steller work - they proved that with No One But You, which all three of them worked on their own, and with MIH - where they had little else besides Freddie's voice to work with.
Most of the time they can actually keep the legacy going through their collective creations - yes, fans will be critical because at least some of them have stuck by the group for so long and would like to see that level of commitment returned.
Truth is, these two men ARE brilliant men who were pioneers at their work. They DIDN'T need gimmicks like the collaboration for Pepsi, nor the QE now (though to be fair, why exactly are we bringing Brian into the picture here? He doesn't even seem remotely involved in this, he's said so himself).
I wouldn't go as far as to brand them money-makers and accuse them of all this...that's simply not fair. I do agree with rhyeking to the extent that the behavior of many fans themselves has been less than ideal. Of course, if a fan feels they genuinely don't care about Queen at all and are just making it their favourite cashcow that's their call...as far as I am concerned they do care, they do want it to live on, but don't exactly go in all the right directions to do so sometimes.
As far as I'm concerned, the tribute I loved, MIH holds a pride of place in my collection, No One But You still leaves me a little choked, the musical was a good way of reviving the interest in Queen and the Queen+ projects were wonderful pieces of work that seriously needed good promotion which they didn't get, and they COULD have chosen better people for collaborations! But QE does NOTHING honestly for them or for Queen, and most of us would much rather see them do some stellar musical work before they call it a day. The last thing we'd want would be for them to go out with a whimper.
Me, I'M more interested in Roger's plans for the Olympics and how Brian fits in there!
john bodega · Member since
Ridiculous thread title. Some ridiculous posts after it. Blah.
philip storey · Member since
I think i am going to have lay down in a darkend room !!!!
Bigfish · Member since
Sebastian wrote: I don't see how what they decide to do has any effect on us.
Surely, we can disagree with some of their partnership choices (I do - often) but that's the extent of it.
Actual rape - that's a crime.
Hitting your wife - that's a crime.
Abusing your kids, sexually, physically and/or psychologically - that's a crime.
Being hypocrite about reality shows and/or choosing to duet with Rebecca Black and/or writing a shitty musical - those are arguably poor career movements, but nothing more. It's not as if our lives will be any worse or better because of what they do. Oh bloody hell - have a day off for gods sake or are you really Sheldon from Big Bang Theory after all..
Oberon · Member since
Ivo-1976 wrote: What is most disappointing is that Brian and Roger's creative processes have stopped. They stopped writing, they stopped performing, they stopped recording. They are just the two guys from Queen that ONCE were great musicians. Squeezing every last drop of popularity and profit out of their past. A horrible way to end.
This year, Queen has its 40th birthday, Freddie would've hit 65 years and it's also 20 years since he's passed away. If there ever was a moment to say goodbye with a Big Bang for Brian and Roger it would've been this year.
One series of shows with the guys from the Paul Rodgers shows, and some friends of Queen on vocals, would've been an excellent way for Bri and Rog to bow out in style. They could announce it as the very last (small) tour and goodbye to the fans. Everybody would understand and appreciate it.
In stead, they are going to pick other musicians to play their music because they don't care anymore. Very, very "UnQueenish". I have to agree in a way, although Brian has of course done work with Kelly Ellis (like it or not - I went to both RAH shows and they were very good shows).
I was quite surprised that they didn't arrange something big given the significance of the year. When the exhibition in London was announced, I thought that they would do a show of some kind - a second tribute of sorts. I think they could easily do a run at the O2 if they got a good set of "names" to do a turn. I think they could do that each year and make some decent money, and they'd be doing what they (should) love best.
They could even write some new material and release in whatever modern way they want (i.e. just electronic), and play it live at those shows.
I'd be interested to know what the deal with Universal was. Must have been purely back catalog + re-packaging. Shows how lucrative that catalog must be! Doesn't seem to include anything new does it?
As far as the extravaganza goes, it's a strange concept, but it does seem to be all Roger. Brian's comments on his web site are quite telling. He's not involved and I'd be surprised if we saw him at any of these shows. It must be all about money really, i don't have any doubt about it. The question I have, is was it Roger's idea or Jim Beach's idea and Roger ran with it?
