Queen II vs. A Night At The Opera

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

anato's production is not better than II.
II had the kitchen sink thrown at it - it was RTB at his best (apart from some weak drum sounds)
opera on the other hand sounds incredibly muddy in places - there's keyboards drowning out guitars and vice-versa - unless you've heard the 5:1 dvd-a version
you'll not understand how good opera could sound[/QUOTE]

Well, that's your opinion, man.



And Also, Without Anato. Queen II would be as obscure and forgotten as that Morgan album featuring Tim Staffell after Smile.

And again. i love QII. One of my favourites along with Innuendo. But ANATO is better done, have better songs, and sounds better because it has a character of their own.

Queen II sound's a lot like the token progressive rock album of the 70's

mmm...my favorite is QueenI...

[QUOTE][b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]  
[b]anato's production is not better than II. [/b][b]II had the kitchen sink thrown at it - it was RTB at his best (apart from some weak drum sounds) [/b][b]opera on the other hand sounds incredibly muddy in places - there's keyboards drowning out guitars and vice-versa - unless you've heard the 5:1 dvd-a version . [/b][b]you'll not understand how good opera could sound[/b] [i]Ozz wrote:[/i]
[i]
Ozz wrote 
Well, that's your opinion, man.
And Also, Without Anato. Queen II would be as obscure and forgotten as that Morgan album featuring Tim Staffell after Smile[/i].
[b]brenski replies:
no it wouldn't. II was a top 5 album in the UK - queen's main market at that time. it also spawned their first top 10 Uk hit SSoR. Finally, being a huge seller and "saving the band single-handedly" does NOT make it a better album either musically or production-wise. that should be based on the merits of the product itself and NOT what it did for their careers. [/b]

[i]Ozz wrote
And again. i love QII. One of my favourites along with Innuendo. But ANATO is better done, have better songs, and sounds better because it has a character of their own.[/i]
[b]brenski replies
as i said above - listen to the 5:1 dvd-a of ANATO then you'll realise how muddy the production of the standard version is. everything is "cramped" into too confined a space. you could tell they got "their first 24-track - cos you can almost feel they felt a little spoilt by the 50% extra tracks on the desk and felt they had to fill everything and the effect was that some stuff got buried in the mix. you only have to listen to BoRhap's 24-track multis...silence a few tracks and you'll hear how good the mix could've been. the fact that you cite "innuendo" as another favourite kinda implies you like the "muddy" production sound...cos that's one thng opera and innuendo suffer from - really muddy production
as for queen II - RT Baker was at his peak - and he used every trick he could to make the 16-track production sound crystal clear. [/b]

[i]Ozz wrote[/i]
[i]Queen II sound's a lot like the token progressive rock album of the 70's[/i]
[b]brenski replies
there's nothing "prog" about it. it's an out-and-out rocker of an album. side black sounds like a "concept" mini album - in reality it isn't...it's just freddie's genius for segueing tracks together to keep the attention of the listener. freddie was never better creatively than on those six tracks. most rock bands do concepts and it's not the sole domain of prog-rock bands you know.[/b][/QUOTE]

THey're both bloody brilliant. We are so lucky to have had a band to have put out stuff this good. I was listening to the extra EP from Jazz and being relatively fresh to my ear, i experienced once again completely how great a band Queen were, especially in the 70's.

>no it wouldn't

Queen was going bankrupt after SHA. (In fact it was Killer Queen the song that really put them on the spotlight before anato)
Brian said it many times. If ANATO didn't make it. they were done.

>Muddy

ha, in any case, RTB Jazz is down there in the worst productions of Queen.
The multitracks don't show anything new to me. My favourite ANATO by far is the DCC GOLD version. Just listen Love of My Life and you will realize how those melodies and silence are way better produced than most of the Queen catalogue

>there's nothing "prog" about it

There's a lot of prog. Sometimes it sounds like YES.
ANATO has a character of their own. Queen II sounds like Zeppellin, Who, Beach Boys, Yes, even Zappa.

I like it. But ANATO defined 70's Queen. ¿How many Queen II songs are in Live Killers? ¿How Many ANATO ones?

[QUOTE] [b]Ozz wrote:[/b]

>no it wouldn't

Queen was going bankrupt after SHA. (In fact it was Killer Queen the song that really put them on the spotlight before anato)
Brian said it many times. If ANATO didn't make it. they were done.

>Muddy

ha, in any case, RTB Jazz is down there in the worst productions of Queen.
The multitracks don't show anything new to me. My favourite ANATO by far is the DCC GOLD version. Just listen Love of My Life and you will realize how those melodies and silence are way better produced than most of the Queen catalogue

>there's nothing "prog" about it

There's a lot of prog. Sometimes it sounds like YES.
ANATO has a character of their own. Queen II sounds like Zeppellin, Who, Beach Boys, Yes, even Zappa.

I like it. But ANATO defined 70's Queen. ¿How many Queen II songs are in Live Killers? ¿How Many ANATO ones?

[/QUOTE] Queen2 was alway's my favorite, and I do think the record was original sounding. I really don't understand how someone could say fairyfeller's and Black Queen sound like Zep. I will say over time that opera has aged a bit better for me...Still love both records, Queen2 has freddie's masterpiece in side Black, but side 2 of A Night At The Opera might even be better. It Doesn't get any better than Prophet Song, Love Of My Life, Good Company and Bo Rhap/GSTQ. The first side of Opera is cleary better. I love Father to son/White Queen, but opera 1st side has many great ones. Loser In the end is worse than any song on Opera, including sweet lady. I do think Opera has the slight edge.

[QUOTE]

[b]brENsKi: [/b]no it wouldn't 
[b]
Ozz: [/b]Queen was going bankrupt after SHA. (In fact it was Killer Queen the song that really put them on the spotlight before anato)
Brian said it many times. If ANATO didn't make it. they were done.

[b]waunakonor:[/b] He wasn't saying ANatO didn't save Queen; it did. He's saying that Queen II wouldn't end up as forgotten as you suggest it would be. Also, that the album's impact on Queen's career shouldn't be a factor in judging the quality of the music.

 [b]brENsKi: [/b]Muddy

[b]Ozz: [/b]ha, in any case, RTB Jazz is down there in the worst productions of Queen.
The multitracks don't show anything new to me. My favourite ANATO by far is the DCC GOLD version. Just listen Love of My Life and you will realize how those melodies and silence are way better produced than most of the Queen catalogue

[b]waunakonor:[/b] Jazz's production has nothing to do with either of the albums in question. Also, I disagree about the multitracks. Just listening to the a capella version of Bo Rhap's operatic section shows me that some things could have been brought out more. I also dislike the sound of Love of My Life's production. Nevermore, for example, sounds a lot clearer to my ears (of course, NM is a better song overall anyway).

[b]brENsKi: [/b]there's nothing "prog" about it

[b]Ozz: [/b]There's a lot of prog. Sometimes it sounds like YES.

[b]waunakonor:[/b] Just because it sounds kind of like some prog rock bands doesn't mean the album itself is very progressive.

[b]Ozz: [/b]ANATO has a character of their own. Queen II sounds like Zeppellin, Who, Beach Boys, Yes, even Zappa.

[b]waunakonor:[/b] ANatO is definitely not without its influences.

[b]Ozz: [/b]I like it. But ANATO defined 70's Queen. ¿How many Queen II songs are in Live Killers? ¿How Many ANATO ones?

[b]waunakonor:[/b] What does that have to do with anything?[/QUOTE]

glad someone else ^^^ can see this, and agrees.

Ozz, you're so wrong - on the points that YOU cite as the distinguishing reasons for ANATO.

Opera has a bit of everything in it - which must mean it draws heavily on influences form elsewhere - thus making it unoriginal by default - folk, classic, opera, vaudeville, musichall, ragtime, oh - and prophet song has the zep influences you accuse II of.

II is definitely not prog-rock

of course jazz is weirdly claggy - from a production point of view - but this is about opera vs II. II is the clearer and better produced album....go bakc and listen to the bo-rhap multis (as the last poster did, and as i suggested) and listen to how clear opera could've been....just load up the multis into audacity and slience random tracks...then really listen....you'll get it...then you can come back and admit you coulda got it wrong about te production

one final point...you bang on about "no opera, no queen, they were almost finished" - guess what?
listen to FFMS/nevermore/black queen in one sitting
THIS IS WHERE FREDDIE FORMED bo-rhap..this was bo-rhap's conception....so you argument should read "no queen Ii, no opera, no queen"
your argument is thereby invalid

Queen II was a very important step in Queen's evolution, but they hadn't yet combined the artistic vision with accessibility. A Night At The Opera was where everything came together.

Bringing high art to the average person is nearly every great artist's goal, and it was achieved with A Night At The Opera.

With no disrespect to the earlier albums, as they are amongst the best albums of the 70s. But ANATO is the creative, stylistic, melodic, and accessible peak of their career.

I think the songs in ANATO sounds a bit more dated than those in QII because they were covering a lot of styles in ANATO.  The songs in QII seems to be "pure" rock, so they sound "current" anytime it is played.

It's interesting as I feel exactly the opposite. I think Queen II is very much of it's time, in a wonderful way, where the particular brilliance of many Opera songs confers that sense of timelessness that great artistry so often has.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

glad someone else ^^^ can see this, and agrees.

Ozz, you're so wrong - on the points that YOU cite as the distinguishing reasons for ANATO.

Opera has a bit of everything in it - which must mean it draws heavily on influences form elsewhere - thus making it unoriginal by default - folk, classic, opera, vaudeville, musichall, ragtime, oh - and prophet song has the zep influences you accuse II of.

II is definitely not prog-rock

of course jazz is weirdly claggy - from a production point of view - but this is about opera vs II. II is the clearer and better produced album....go bakc and listen to the bo-rhap multis (as the last poster did, and as i suggested) and listen to how clear opera could've been....just load up the multis into audacity and slience random tracks...then really listen....you'll get it...then you can come back and admit you coulda got it wrong about te production

one final point...you bang on about "no opera, no queen, they were almost finished" - guess what?
listen to FFMS/nevermore/black queen in one sitting
THIS IS WHERE FREDDIE FORMED bo-rhap..this was bo-rhap's conception....so you argument should read "no queen Ii, no opera, no queen"
your argument is thereby invalid



[/QUOTE]

Now you're being a bit silly. Name one band that didn't draw influences from other artists? Everyone talks about the big 5 bands of the Beatles, stones, The Who, Zep and Hendrix. Most of these bands took stuff from the Blues and made it their own. Give Queen Credit for going in a different direction from most other Rock bands.

And then there are people who argue there has been no original music since Mozart...

Let the mudslinging begin!

[QUOTE] [b]MOTBQ74 wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

glad someone else ^^^ can see this, and agrees.

Ozz, you're so wrong - on the points that YOU cite as the distinguishing reasons for ANATO.

Opera has a bit of everything in it - which must mean it draws heavily on influences form elsewhere - thus making it unoriginal by default - folk, classic, opera, vaudeville, musichall, ragtime, oh - and prophet song has the zep influences you accuse II of.
[/QUOTE]

Now you're being a bit silly. Name one band that didn't draw influences from other artists? Everyone talks about the big 5 bands of the Beatles, stones, The Who, Zep and Hendrix. Most of these bands took stuff from the Blues and made it their own. Give Queen Credit for going in a different direction from most other Rock bands. [/QUOTE]
i think YOu misunderstand. my comment about Opera was a counter to Ozz's claims that II was heavily influenced by others...my point being that due to the many varied styles used on Opera it must by default be less original than Queen II. especially when you consider that it even drew on the influence of FFMS/Nevermore/black queen - for the embryos of Bo Rhap.
hope that clears it up for you