Amnesty International

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[b]The Real Wizard wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
Honestly Bob, I wouldn't bother. I am not an anti-American person and have no idea whether the ignorance just displayed there is a reflection of an individual or an insular nation, but when the well is that deep trying to draw water is a fool's errand. Reciting the history and present day policies of this country for the ignorant is generally a whiny and defensive and sad affair that we elect to do far too often in my view. If it was a real question borne from real interest people would have already found their own way to the answers. You know, what with the internet and everything.[/QUOTE]
How poetically put. And damn well accurate. You should be a writer!

For the inquisitive, I'll be brief - the list of major Canadian inventions includes the telephone, insulin and film colourization.

But worry not, I'm sure our resident yankee buffoon will be relentless in attempting to support his baseless prejudices.[/QUOTE]

Some others are the snowmobile, the garbage bag, Peanut Butter, and of course, the Wonderbra :D

I'm just glad to know that not all Americans are like Microwave (not by a long run, fortunately!). Sadly, it is because of people like him that the U.S. has such a bad reputation in many parts of the world.
The thing I find so terrifying in Microwave's line of thinking, is that he does not see any reason *not* to stoop down to the level of your opponent. There is to be no such thing as mercy or fairness in his world-view, only retribution and punishment. That is exactly the attitude of the generals and politicians who led the First World War. When you lose sight of the human measure, and Microwave lost sight a long time ago, you open the door to all kinds of complete and total evil.

Go to Flanders and you'll see some of Canada's contributions. Headstones and memorials to their many dead from WW1. Very moving.

Why would a guy like Microwave visit France when everything the world needs is in the USA?

[QUOTE]the list of major Canadian inventions includes the telephone[/QUOTE]

Oops.  Missed on your first point.  (see attached PROOF!!!)  

Why would a guy like Bob leave Canada when everything (apparantly) was invented there!!!!

But back to the original topic, not the mud slinging you kids are so fond of, I guess I'm the only one that doesn't drink the AI Kool Aid around here.  You can call me names all you want, but don't go saying 'We canadians don't believe in MURDER!!!'  You've got quite a reputation of your own.

The patent for the telephone was American, not his citizenship. He was a Scottish-born Canadian resident.

Instead of being a mature adult and acknowledging the invention of insulin, you searched for a loophole. But somehow I knew that was coming.

Microwave, what exactly is your problem with AI? They do fundraise, but they also do a lot of work -- which would be impossible without fundraising. You seem to feel that they use people on death row to profit the company? I don't really see why you have that impression. They are a NGO, so i'm sure their financial reports are available to the public, if you want to slate them, then do some research and make sure what you're saying is accurate. I've used quite a few amnesty resources througout college, and i've never had a reason to criticise their reports. They do criticise governments, and maybe that is what you don't like about them? I get the impression that you don't like the USA to be criticised in any way -- but NO country is perfect. They slate my country - and rightly so - for our treatment of asylum seekers. But i know that my country isn't perfect, and that there are things that should be changed, and that there isn't equality for everyone. Maybe you just don't like anyone saying anything about the USA? But not everybody bases their opinion on a one-sided half-baked emotional argument about a topic, some of us have actually spent quite a bit of time reading and thinking abt the work of organisations such as AI.

And in fact, a simple google search revealed their financial audits as the first result. Here it is. I didn't search them for the exact numbers about how they raked in profit for and from executed prisoners, because i'm pretty sure they didn't. Here's the link.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/who-we-are/accountability/financial-reports

And, i think it is a really dangerous position to take to say that 'i dont support the death penalty, but the guys who are killed are monsters and deserve it, it was right for them,' which is essentially what you seem to be saying. If you are saying that a human death penalty is wrong, but they are excluded from that, it is basically like saying that they are not fully human. And that is a really really dangerous path to start going down. If you start down a road of considering people to be sub-human or that human rights are not universal, it is very difficult to stop that from developing further. Maybe in yourself you can stop it, but if that view permeates society, i think it would potentially grow out of control.

AND - why do you match people's arguments with a personal attack? Match an argument with an argument, not with a joke about 'AI kool aid.'

The fact that there's still no reply from Microwave really says it all, doesn't it?

[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
The fact that there's still no reply from Microwave really says it all, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]


True. Its just sad, we have so many opportunities to make ourselves aware of what's going on, we have educational opportunities that can teach us to be critical and careful about what information we absorb, and i'm not saying i'm perfect, i hate watching the news, so i never know what's going on lol, but its really not that hard to do a bit of research if a topic concerns you, rather then just making random accusations. And organisations like AI work so hard, and have done so much, its sad to see people not care, and not value human rights. And also sad when people can't tell the difference between ideological propaganda and properly carried out research and journalism. I guess in Europe we are lucky enough, our media is obviously biased, but nowhere near as intensely and blatantly biased as media in the USA seems? Maybe thats a sweeping statement, but it seems a bit easier to find somewhat balanced information here then in the States. But maybe thats just cos most of the americans i know are quite republican and just choose to ignore anything that doesn't agree with the way they want to see the world?

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[b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [/b] The fact that there's still no reply from Microwave really says it all, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

Yes, that I have a life outside of Queenzone and actually get out on weekends.

You should try it, TQ.

@ catqueen

What's my problem with AI?   This:
"despite compelling evidence of his rehabilitation. He had been on death row for more than half of his life."

This is where I have a problem.  Where are both sides of the argument.  I would be much happier if they would have said...

"despite some people saying he's getting better, this sick son of a bitch who killed innocent victims has been on death row for more than half of his life because of the ability for US inmates to tie up their sentences in appeals and motions."

They give this guy a voice (albiet it after he died).  Why not give his victims the same voice?  Because THAT doesn't stir emotions.  Because people like Bob think the victim's family should have been given the opportunity to shake hands with the killer and say "I forgive you... praise Jesus."

What if the death penalty had been used on that Jordan VanDerSloot character?  Perhaps there wouldn't have been a 2nd victim.  But, again, people like Bob think he should have been given the chance to rehabilitate, at our expense, over years and years and countless funding.  Well, they let him go and look what happened.  He killed again.  It's our fault, not his... right Bob?