Freddie and vocal improvisations. A maverick ?

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]
nicely sidestepped my suggestion to "listen to some older bands live lps"
i used keywords like "audience participation" "rock" and "gigs" and "history"
one reference to the monterrey pop festival 1967 cites Otis Redding's set as involving audience participation[/QUOTE]

brENsKi come on. You know that this thread was not refearing to audience participation.
It was all about the vocal ping-pong we all understand as a very Freddie thing.
And its not a huge invention but it played its role in the completion of Queen live = pure electricity and manipulation of the masses(in a good way)

You are all dicks.

[QUOTE] [b]STELIOS wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]
nicely sidestepped my suggestion to "listen to some older bands live lps"
i used keywords like "audience participation" "rock" and "gigs" and "history"
one reference to the monterrey pop festival 1967 cites Otis Redding's set as involving audience participation[/QUOTE]
brENsKi come on. You know that this thread was not refearing to audience participation.
It was all about the vocal ping-pong we all understand as a very Freddie thing.
And its not a huge invention but it played its role in the completion of Queen live = pure electricity and manipulation of the masses(in a good way)[/QUOTE]
i know exactly what you meant
the point i was making is that if you ever bothered to listen to some other bands live albums or bootlegs you'd hear loads of "vocal ping-pong" as you call it - going back well before queen....
try doing some research yourself before trying to establish a fiction as fact
ffs - even bloody kiss indulged in a bit of this stuff before freddie

"Trying to establish a fiction as fact"? Nope.This thread had a question mark after the word maverick. Bother to read it carefully.

when i say "And its not a huge invention but it played..." means it wasnt huge and apparently it wasnt an invention.It just something done with great charisma so perhaps stepped voc.improvisations to a next level.

[QUOTE] [b]STELIOS wrote:[/b]
"Trying to establish a fiction as fact"? Nope.This thread had a question mark after the word maverick. Bother to read it carefully.
[/QUOTE]
you quite clearly said above that the "vocal ping-pong" was a very freddie thing
i have pointed out that it clearly wasn't
why do you still dispute this?

i've already mentioned a few rock bands (and kiss)that did this before freddie

i think you have an inbuilt need to establish your comment as fact - even when it definitely isn't

[QUOTE] [b]STELIOS wrote:[/b]
when i say "And its not a huge invention but it played..." means it wasnt huge and apparently it wasnt an invention.It just something done with great charisma so perhaps stepped voc.improvisations to a next level.[/QUOTE]
but surely it's easy enough to listen to old live lps and see if "freddie's invention" was his, or if - as you have been informed - by others apart from me, that it existed long before freddie
ie - it was not his invention


my guess is you'll next cite the fact that queen fans played along for years, but it became huge when he convince the "live aid heathens" to play along too that it became global.....freddie was a frontman doing what frontmen did for years before.....

Brenski, the guy asked a question about Queen. This is a Queen forum. Questions are allowed to be asked. Don't tell people 'if you'd be bothered to listen to other bands old bootleg lps etc.'...people haven't got the time/money/effort to listen to a bunch of old gigs from bands they're not interested in to seek an answer to a question they're simply just curious about.

Jeez.

[QUOTE] [b]Supersonic_Man89 wrote:[/b]
Brenski, the guy asked a question about Queen. This is a Queen forum. Questions are allowed to be asked. Don't tell people 'if you'd be bothered to listen to other bands old bootleg lps etc.'...people haven't got the time/money/effort to listen to a bunch of old gigs from bands they're not interested in to seek an answer to a question they're simply just curious about.
Jeez.
[/QUOTE]
"jeez" yourself. why don't you read his follow up posts, even his last couple he is trying to change what he said. surely if you ask a question and you're informed of the answer, you don't then try to "correct" the answer to suit your argument?
freddie didn't invent this. Stelios still implied he did, even after a few people informed him freddie didn't
...and one or two of us were kind enough to point out which bands (and kiss) that did it first.
and as for your last comment...in that case "people" are bloody lazy. because youtube is full of live gigs, and if the reason you cite is genuine - for something so easy to investigate smacks of bone-idleness

It appears we have a failure to communicate here.  Let's examine the original post a bit...

[QUOTE]

[b]STELIOS wrote: [/b] These days seems like another one of his trademarks but i was wondering if he was a pioneer in this kind of vocal ping-pong with the audience.
Where there artists before him experimented in the same way?[/QUOTE]
The sentence is poorly structured.  The first statement (joined by the conjunction "but") is:
[i]"These days seems like another one of his trademarks"[/i]
Not sure what is trying to be expressed here.  These days WHAT seems... vocal improvs?  First off, these days Freddie is dead.  But later in his career, yes... I would agree...  it was one of his trademarks.

Next... [i]"I was wondering if he was a pioneer in this kind of vocal ping-pong".[/i]
Well, a pioneer is usually considered the first to do it or the first to do it with some sort of historic relevence.  Freddie was not the first...  sorry.   If you want my best guess on the first English rock band with four member to do this, I would say The Beatles Twist & Shout.

Finally, "[i]Where there artists before him experimented in the same way?"[/i]
Lots of places... or if you meant "Were", then the answer is YES.  There were singers doing this in the 30's.  No, it wasn't Rock music, but that wasn't your question.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
Complete and utter BS by Freddie-worshipers. Crowd interaction is as old as music itself, and call-and-response is generally accepted as the oldest structural format in music.[/QUOTE]
And that should be the end of the thread.[/QUOTE]
I disagree in the sense that - while Freddie didn't invent call-and-response singing - he surely was really great at it (him singing with a huge audience is quite impressive,n isn't it?). It has to be said that few other rockers have the charisma, voice and intelligence to do it on the scale Freddie did at - let's say - Live Aid.
There are a few simple tricks to make it work but few really master those tricks and few seem to understand those tricks.
Now, what am I talking about?
Be my guest to make suggestions haha.

[QUOTE] [b]on my way up wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
Complete and utter BS by Freddie-worshipers. Crowd interaction is as old as music itself, and call-and-response is generally accepted as the oldest structural format in music.[/QUOTE]
And that should be the end of the thread.[/QUOTE]
I disagree in the sense that - while Freddie didn't invent call-and-response singing - he surely was really great at it (him singing with a huge audience is quite impressive,n isn't it?). It has to be said that few other rockers have the charisma, voice and intelligence to do it on the scale Freddie did at - let's say - Live Aid.
There are a few simple tricks to make it work but few really master those tricks and few seem to understand those tricks.
Now, what am I talking about?
Be my guest to make suggestions haha.
[/QUOTE]
nobody disputed (anywhere) that he was great at it, the best at it, (subjective, mind) so what excatly are YOU disagreeing with?

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]on my way up wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
Complete and utter BS by Freddie-worshipers. Crowd interaction is as old as music itself, and call-and-response is generally accepted as the oldest structural format in music.[/QUOTE]
And that should be the end of the thread.[/QUOTE]
I disagree in the sense that - while Freddie didn't invent call-and-response singing - he surely was really great at it (him singing with a huge audience is quite impressive,n isn't it?). It has to be said that few other rockers have the charisma, voice and intelligence to do it on the scale Freddie did at - let's say - Live Aid.
There are a few simple tricks to make it work but few really master those tricks and few seem to understand those tricks.
Now, what am I talking about?
Be my guest to make suggestions haha.
[/QUOTE]
nobody disputed (anywhere) that he was great at it, the best at it, (subjective, mind) so what excatly are YOU disagreeing with?[/QUOTE]
I was disagreeing with what The Real Wizard wrote (that the discussion should be ended), hence the quote. I then tried to bring new life to the thread.
But I think you've succesfully brought an end to it now. Congratulations!

Freddie also pioneered the following:

the prophylactic
the water closet
He also invented singing, no human had sung anything before he invented it.

Rumour has it he invented the piano, and songwriting. However, the official fanclub has not yet confirmed these rumours. A crack research team is investigating these matters somewhere in India close to the region of Bulsar.

[QUOTE] [b]on my way up wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
Complete and utter BS by Freddie-worshipers. Crowd interaction is as old as music itself, and call-and-response is generally accepted as the oldest structural format in music.[/QUOTE]
And that should be the end of the thread.[/QUOTE]
I disagree in the sense that - while Freddie didn't invent call-and-response singing - he surely was really great at it (him singing with a huge audience is quite impressive,n isn't it?). It has to be said that few other rockers have the charisma, voice and intelligence to do it on the scale Freddie did at - let's say - Live Aid.
There are a few simple tricks to make it work but few really master those tricks and few seem to understand those tricks.
Now, what am I talking about?
Be my guest to make suggestions haha.
[/QUOTE]

It must hit in the subconscious mind that sort of singing-roaring thing with call and response. Creates a buzz and soon they are all united under one common leader.

Then he goes and throws a "fuck you" or a "join the band" and Bang, collision accomplished.

Joseph Goebbels would have envied the case of Mercury the manipulator!