OK United States, tell Queenzone who beat you at Olympic qualifying soccer

Micrówave wrote:  By the way, I didn't know owning a Fax Machine made you "civilized".

The Real Wizard wrote: What else did you mean when you made a blanket statement about 190 of the world's countries then?

That they probably weren't waiting around for a memo from me.

Jeez... you're such a racist. Did we really need to take it there?

Let's not get to deep with the philosophies on this thread, too.

Simply... You said most popular, I said that's open to opinion, you said FACT, I presented (quite cleverly) an example where it didn't hold up, you got mad and didn't like it.

Let's relax and realize we're both out of the playoffs.

I certainly hope he catches the satire in that last post.

Micrówave wrote:
More people buy Cowboys jerseys in South America, more people buy Cowboys jerseys in Europe, more people buy Cowboy jerseys in Africa.

Ask any person whose been in South America or Europe. Been in Colombia and Germany, walked around many stores. Tons and tons of soccer jerseys, and not a single NFL shirt, unless you go to a rare specialty store to find one.

The only place in the world other than US where people have tons of NFL shirts is Africa. When a Super Bowl team is defeated, that's where they send the "Superbowl Champions" shirts from the loser side.

A continuation of the violence in hockey stuff: An interesting example of how violence begets more violence in a game my team played in over the weekend, and an additional example of how, perhaps unintuitively, incidental contact to the head is viewed much more seriously, also from the same game. The NHL is in playoffs right now and my team, the Ottawa Sentaors (16th overall), are playing the New York Rangers (1st overall) in the first round in a best of seven. Not all players play the role of fighter or 'enforcer' and it is a role of the enforcers to protect the often more skilled and non (or much less) fighting elite players.  They've played two games so far and in the first game a New York Ranger tough guy named Brian Boyle threw some punches at Erik Karlsson, a comparatively slight and highly skilled Ottawa defenceman.  In the second game within three minutes of the start an Ottawa enforcer named Matt Carkner literally hunts Boyle down and jumps him in retaliation for what he'd done the last game to send a message that it would not be tolerated. As crazy at that seems, it has it's own logic because the playoffs can be a war of attrition and being hard on the bodies of the other team can provide just enough of an edge to make a difference, so in addition to general principles of brotherhood a team can't allow it's best players to be gratuitously punched around by the opposing team. In comparison to the last brawl I posted this fight actually did result in two game misconducts (ejections from the game).  One to Matt Carkner for blatant instigating and an NHL rules required one for a New York Ranger for being "the third man in", or for joining an altercation in progress.  The New York Ranger flipped out and in what in some ways was the most egregious action of the whole saga picked up and smashed down a big Gatorade thing when he was leaving the ice, with people right there.  I thought he should have been disciplined for that.  So in summary in what may seem odd outside the sport attempting to beat the poo out of somebody for reasons that have nothing to do with the play underway is no worse and in fact just as bad as trying to help your buddy who is having the poo beaten out of him, and both will get you thrown from the game.  However, if two people agree to mutually attempt to beat the poo out of each other during play, that's mostly OK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94r8eauXqkU However: same game, this earned Carl Hagelin a formal NHL disciplinary hearing and a three game suspension. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5Nz2efcW8 So not sure if anybody really cares, but thought it an interesting example of the 'code' and where the lines are drawn in violence in NHL hockey, and where they aren't, all in one game.

Yes, and I watched EVERY MINUTE of that game.

Disciplined for knocking over a gatorade cooler. I think 4 pieces of ice MIGHT have hit that one kid in the front row... but really? If anything, he took his team's refreshements away. I'm sure they took care of that internally.

Anyways, it beats the heck out of watching guys jog around a field for two hours.

It was a good game, but rough...tense. Last night's game was some of the best hockey I've ever seen, even though we lost 1-0. The kind of game where the pace and effort is almost surreal. Disappointing to lose at home, but really they can't let fans down at this point. We weren't even supposed to be here by anybody's preseason measure, and we took one from the best team in the league at their house and kept them to one goal at ours. CBC is freaking out because there is a very strong likelihood that there will be no Canadian teams in the second round of the playoffs, unless either we or Vancouver pull one out of the hat.

About the Gatorade flinging. Whatever one thinks about the occasional fist fight in hockey and the general speed and aggressiveness of the sport, those are known quantities. If you bring your children to a hockey game you know what to expect. I wouldn't expect them to see their heroes behaving totally unprofessionally and flinging stuff around because they're angry. And spectators shouldn't be hit by anything because of a player's fit of pique, particularly little spectators. I can see it not being a big deal to people, but it bothered me.

Anyway, go Sens!

I hope there's another Falklands conflict, I really do. Gotta love the dagos attitude on this one : "we hate colonialism, so let us make the islands into a colony of our own".

They really haven't thought that one through.

And spectators shouldn't be hit by anything because of a player's fit of pique, particularly little spectators. I can see it not being a big deal to people, but it bothered me.

Now wait a minute.  That's not the sports fault, the player's fault, the arena's fault, etc.  That is STRICTLY the parent's fault.  They were not forced to get seats that close, they chose to impress their kid with that.  You can't put that on the player.  You can probably see more action if you sit a bit higher anyways.

Remember when I showed you my seats?  My 16 year was crushed when the kid in front of us caught a errant puck.  She really wanted it.  The puck was much harder and faster than an errant ice cube. 

Even the back of a ticket stub releases an arena from any liability from issues such as those.  There's no difference between little Johnny getting hit with an ice cube than him taking a broken bat from a foul ball down the third base line.

Comedian Gallagher used to smash Water Melons on stage.  If you didn't want to get wet, don't sit so close.

I get it, but it's not about liability etc. It's about a player taking his professional obligations and his job as a role model seriously.

He did.

He could have gone out and gave a lackluster performance, acted disinterested, and hurt his team's chances.

Instead, he went out and played Hockey. If you are the fan you claim to be, then you must be aware of the terms "enforcer" or "goon". These are part of the sport.

He's not out there to show his dad how to be a better parent or to set an example that you shouldn't bully kids in school or look both ways before crossing.

Why do some (particularly women) want "role models"? Do they have role models in the WNBA or Women's Hockey? Since those aren't watched by anyone, I couldn't tell you. But I'd guess that Lisa Leslie laid a few out in her time.

Brandon Dubinsky is not an enforcer, he's a first or second line forward who led the Rangers in scoring a season or so ago. He's the kind of guy the enforcers protect, and the kind of guy who ends up on a poster in some kid's bedroom. If the culture didn't imbue professional athletes with desirable character traits and the power to influence they wouldn't be paid millions of dollars for endorsements. The most admirable of the skilled and popular players are certainly aware that they are viewed by young fans as heroes and role models, and work hard to be positive, visible presences at the arena and in their communities. It's really not too much to expect some guy making close to 4 million dollars a year to be professional on and off the ice. Professional is not smashing down a drink dispenser three inches from fans because you're mad at a call.

The most admirable of the skilled and popular players are certainly aware that they are viewed by young fans as heroes and role models

You know, Charles Barkley took objection to that statement 15 years ago and now he's the most beloved Sportscaster in the NBA right now.  Charles point was this.  It's not up to the athletes to live as "role models" any time they're in public view... because they're in public ALL THE TIME.  Kind of unfair to expect that. 

I ask you, Grateful Fan, are you acting like a role model ALL THE TIME?  Of course not.  The "role model" is someone who can explain to that child why or why not that kind of behaviour is acceptable.  Human beings make mistakes.  But to place unfair expectations on them is absurd. 

You think Wayne Gretzky ever got mad?  Of course he did.  There are youtube clips all over the place.  But overall, I'd say he made a great "role model"...  for someone wanting to become a professional Hockey Player.  Anyone attending a sporting event looking for a role model probably needs some better parenting first.

It's really not too much to expect some guy making close to 4 million dollars a year to be professional on and off the ice.

Oh so how much money can you make without that unfair expectation.  Say a guy making the league minimum.  Is it ok for him to smash a water cooler then?

He was in public view, at work. It's not unfair to expect somebody not to toss large, hard objects around at work. I'm imperfect like the rest of the world, but if I flipped over an ice and bottle filled Gatorade cooler adjacent to visitors at my workplace because I was annoyed at my boss, I wouldn't expect a line up of apologists for that behaviour. It's not okay for anybody to smash a water cooler, but to whom much is given much is expected. To a person open to being disappointed by these things, it's simply more disappointing from the elite players.

You have a sixteen year old daughter. As such I probably don't have to tell you there are limits to the powers of parenting. I'm in the middle of a rather difficult reckoning with that right now as my seventeen year old son grapples with how to be independent from me. Our kids are shaped by things outside of us their whole lives. Based on what you've said I'd probably go back and change "job as a role model" to "opportunity to be a role model". In the end I simply admire players who take the opportunity and turn it into a responsibility more than I do the Barkleys of pro sports. It's unfair to extrapolate this one incident to some kind of broad statement about Dubinsky's character, but using your words it's certainly fair to call it a mistake. It was dumb. Unprofessional. Ugly. Unnecessary. But hardly worth 8 posts and all these words. So last word to you cooking device. :)

Ugh.  This place sometimes.  I noticed the video I had posted had been removed so tried to edit post and lost the whole thing.  Not important enough to fully reassemble.  Upshot was my team got a nice overtime win last night on a nice goal.