What REALLY happened

I guess this thread has turned into a Rainbow In The Dark. ;)

Ha, well played

[QUOTE] [b]Lord Fickle wrote:[/b]
I guess this thread has turned into a Rainbow In The Dark. ;)[/QUOTE]
wahay!!!!
me ? i'm just a stargazer

ps - did Dio write the lyrics to "stargazer" - cos if he did he's a genius.....alas i think there's a bit of Ritchie in there somewhere...even tho Ronnie gets the "lyric-writer" credits for the whole album
funny how all these years later both "Rising" & "Heaven and Hell" are among my favourite albums....RJD definitely had something for bringing the best out of his bandmates

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Lord Fickle wrote:[/b]
I guess this thread has turned into a Rainbow In The Dark. ;)[/QUOTE]
wahay!!!!
me ? i'm just a stargazer
ps - did Dio write the lyrics to "stargazer" - cos if he did he's a genius.....alas i think there's a bit of Ritchie in there somewhere...even tho Ronnie gets the "lyric-writer" credits for the whole album[/QUOTE]
I've always thought Dio wrote the lyrics and Blackmore the music. Dio continued to perform Stargazer in his live shows right through his career, and I don't think he would have done so had it not been his own.

Another great Rainbow classic is Gates of Babylon, which I believe was never performed live by Rainbow, but was by Dio in his last tours. Dio was great at keeping those classic songs alive, and there were always surprises at his more recent live shows, such as Tarot Woman and Kill The King. It would have been great had he lived to one day perform the whole of Rainbow Rising on tour.

By the way, here's an interesting snippet - Dio was fired from Rainbow about the same time that Brian Connolly left The Sweet (1977/78), and Ronnie was asked to join Sweet, but signed up to Black Sabbath instead. Can you imagine Dio singing Hell Raiser? Awesome!

see, i'm with you on this, but perhaps it's my "oldschool" mentality

they really don't make albums like those first four rainbow albums anymore, and the sabbath heaven & hell

only reason i suggest ritchie may have had some "lyrical" influence on stargazer is his obsession with the arabic stuff. think you'd need a feel for what your writing music about to pen those lyrics

howver, that whole "tower of babel" story is amazing anyway...and is right up there with Rush's Xanadu for imagery. absolutely one that i will always listen to all the way thru if it comes on radio

Indeed, I agree, they don't make them like that any more. That said, I do think Dio lost the plot a bit in later years, and his lyrics were never as fluent and wonderful as on the Rainbow albums, H&H and Holy Diver. I think he tried to move away from the fantasy stuff and become more contemporary, but sometimes you just have to stick to what you're good at. Dio did do some good stuff in recent years, but also some real shit. Perhaps he'd just grown out of dungeons and dragons?

Lady of the Lake also had some great lines:

There's a magical sound sliding over the ground
Making' it shiver and shake
And a permanent cry falling' out of the sky
Slippery and sly like a snake

With a delicate move kind of shifty and smooth
A shadow has covered the light
Then a beam in the shade from a silvery blade
Has shattered the edge of the night

...and i still remember hearing "die young" for the first time 30+ years ago and thinking "that's as close to Freddie as I've heard anyone sing"

Funnily enough, I've never compared Dio to Freddie. Both excellent at what they do, but entirely different types of vocalist, in my opinion.

"entirely different types of vocalist"

Not really. I think they had different sorts of instruments, if you will, but in the mid 70's there was tons they had in common in their approach to certain kinds of songs. It still blows my head that Dio wasn't invited to the Tribute. He would've smoked everyone else there, bar none.

Interesting thought. It would have been great to hear Dio singing Innuendo.

I'm just trying to think, were there any collaborations between Dio and Queen or perhaps May? I initially thought of the Hear 'n' Aid "Stars" record, but I don't think May was on that.

it was only really on Die Young that i saw it
showed he had the other end of the vocal range too
although there's also "slight" hints on the rainbow ballads
and If You Don't Like Rock N Roll

his vocals are very different elsewhere
but a great rock vocalist nonetheless

[QUOTE] [b]bambams-paradise wrote:[/b]
I guess I'll be the greedy American who replies here haha!
This thread has gotten soooo far out of hand, as do alot of others on this site...it really is hilarious. I haven't posted in a very long time, and for good reason, as I'd be up in arms...le sigh
I see both sides of the fence for what they are...the collectors, and the dreamers, to which I'm happy to say I'm neither. I'm a fan of the band, the music, just like anyone here. Do I get obsessive? Nah...some of you do, and that's great, all the power to you! Am I gonna consider it a life and death issue if I do or don't hear the 'Hangman' acetate on FLAC or mp3 or WAV, or OGG? Not exactly...
The 'collectors' can have it. Are you gonna see me shell out 1000 anything to hear Freddie fart into the microphone in some studio out take? Well, it would be funny to hear, but nah...I have a 4 year old son that is well more worth deserving of my money. Especially in a fucked up economy that the world is apparently in.
Continue to say I'm rambling, be my guest. My point is here is that it's music ffs, and to see everyone get buttsore about it, is kinda funny. I remember seeing the post above me saying 'stolen goods that don't belong to us blah blah blah' (ok, slightly off on my quote, but it got the point across). How many songs do YOU have on your computer that were never released? I have a handful, yes, but you do too! Probably more than I, and it's all good! I, the greedy American, really am not so greedy after all!
My other point being...are any of you going to live or die without hearing some of these rarities? Well...I guess it depends on how much value you place upon it...if you're going to pull a hamstring and have a heart attack over hearing the 'Hangman' acetate for example, well, I wish you luck my friend. Start writing your will now! It's music...great music. But sometimes ignorance is bliss! Nothing I write here is going to change anything, and neither is anything you're going to write either. I will still continue to be the 'greedy American', the dumbass, or whatever you want to label me as. The collectors will hoarde or share whatever they like, and that's just it! You, the fan, are owed nothing, and nobody has to share anything with you...or me! Two words I will express...WHO CARES!!
There's my rant...chew me up to bits people! You're all quite good at it! :D[/QUOTE]

The best post I've ever read here. Deserves to be quoted on and on forever.

[QUOTE] [b]JacquesDaniels wrote:[/b]

I'm gonna go a bit meditative about this whole rarity collecting fandom and the stuff that's been going on. Sorry for the long post, but bear with me.

First off, I'm not a fan of bootlegs and rare material in general, because there's most likely some good reason(s) the material hasn't had an official release. This stuff shouldn't be in circulation in the first place, because in all likelyhood, someone still might own a copyright to those recordings, if there ever was.

As a fan, I understand the need to hear the rare stuff can be superlatively deep, and I'd rather go the official way, if possible.
As a (not so serious) collector, I kind of understand a need to possess something rare and valuable, but I really wouldn't put more than maybe 30 euros on a single album's worth of music, unless it was truly something majestically good (or the vinyl artwork was worth it).
As a musician, I understand the need to keep stuff from circulation where they don't belong - I wouldn't want people to have and hear stuff I was uncomfortable with. Not that I know for certain that Roger Taylor or any of the others who were in The Reaction would mind that this stuff is shared on the internet, but to be honest it's really not all that good.

Secondly, while I don't completely agree with the method, I kind of have to support digital/online piracy in that it allows us to browse through history in a way that no libraries in the world would ever be able to. It's a different thing trying to preserve stuff for posterity than collecting stuff just to own something valuable. In any case, there's too much wrongdoing involved in this whole business that you shouldn't really be pointing out at anybody for doing something they didn't like to happen. The person to blame the most could be the one who didn't think it was good enough for a release in the first place.

Besides, there's always more than one way to go about this business. This "preserving for posterity"-business has been going on for many years now in the retro gaming world, for instance. I've come across a few instances, where a preserver has managed to buy a game on ebay for several hundred pounds, and soon afterwards released a perfectly working image of the product in question for the internet community to enjoy, just because he felt it was the right thing to do. It might not be completely the same thing here, but as I said, there's more than one way to go about it. As suggested, you COULD get in contact with QPL...[/QUOTE]

This is simply a great post...

I think that it's okay to keep the original acetates and tapes and whatnot, but just release the sounds that they make onto the web in FLAC, AIFF, WAV, or even the shitty lossy MP3 format! The larger fanbase, without the money or the resources to collect rare valuables, still wants to hear good music that they haven't already heard before millions of times.
They keep the Mona Lisa in the Louvre behind a bulletproof glass case and security cameras all around it. Yet there are millions of reproductions and copies all around the world. Does the original painting lose its value somehow? No! It's the same way with music.

Re:

>They keep the Mona Lisa in the Louvre behind a bulletproof glass case and security cameras all around it. Yet there are millions of reproductions and copies all around the world. Does the original painting lose its value somehow? No! It's the same way with music

Aha! And, therein, lies the hypocrisy of the music industry.

Trading and file sharing of unreleased material does not detract from a band's sales; piracy does. If a band releases a shitty LP commercially, its not going to sell, regardless of the amount of quality unreleased live or studio tracks are passed between fans.