"Innocence of Muslims" film

"I find myself recalling the outcry about the proposed mosque close to the WTC site, for example."

I still chuckle when I think of that thing. It really was pointless. The location of their intended building might've been exaggerated in the media, but the thing simply didn't need to exist in the first place. The world has enough churches, mosques, and golf courses - as far as I'm concerned they're all equally ripe for the bulldozer.

It was a big fuss about a building that no one needs in the first place. Free speech, on the other hand, does need to exist - even when it's abused by prat filmmakers. We'll just have to deal with them on a case by case basis.

I saw the clips on youtube...and if i dunno what the fuss is about. What i mean is, there are far worse material on the internet that is offensive to islam's prophet which have been online for a long long time.

Does anyone remember "The Last Temptation Of Christ"?

It was a great movie. Brilliant acting, well written, but highly controversial. I was criticized for going to this movie by my peer group. I only wanted to see it because the music was by Peter Gabriel, but ended up seeing it a couple times in the theatre and owning as soon as it was on home video.

It most certainly displayed Christ in a manner offensive to some hardcore Christians, but it was a harmless film. Nuns were picketing the theatres!

Should we lop Scorcese in with this Nakoula character as shit stirrers?

What about the anti-American propaganda in middle eastern culture. If Bagwhan Bill releases "Death To America", does that give me the God given right to go torch a 7-11?

[QUOTE] [b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
and to stand up for our values which are not only different but better than those of Middle East theocracies which we sadly keep helping to build.[/QUOTE]

To this I can only reply with a hearty "fuck you, Jerry". And yes, that is offensive. It damn well should be. No system or culture is superior to any other. Christians aren't torching mosques in America, that is true. On the other hand, you won't see a religious Muslim landlord evict tenants in the middle of winter. I am not a friend of organized religion in any form, but I will say this: I have never met a muslim anywhere near as offensive as some of the christians who try to run the show where I live.

Anyone who proclaims his or her culture as inherently superior to anyone else's has gone a long way on the road to fascism.

What disgusts me utterly is that you people are defending a man who, in peddling his own extremist views, has WITTINGLY and WILLINGLY endangered scores of people's lives. Nakoula tried to be as offensive as he possibly could, to provoke the most hostile reaction he possibly could. He is just as much a terrorist as the people who attacked American embassies are.

Have you ever, even for a moment, considered what you are doing? Do you realize that the way you talk about muslims and islamic countries is the same as when some Saoudi idiots on a Saoudi forum were to assume that Americans are all like the Westboro Baptist Church. Have a little look here, and be very much ashamed of yourselves.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/19/opinion/obeidallah-muslims-rage/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

The only one in this topic who responds with any sense is GratefulFan. Even Bob has lost his way.

@YV:
You love to get all righteous, with your talk of "Middle Eastern theocracies" but have you considered this?

"In Indonesia, a nation of over 200 million, several hundred people took part in protests. Just a few months ago, 50,000 Indonesians bought tickets to see a Lady Gaga concert before it was canceled. So, what does this say about Muslims in Indonesia?"

"In Lebanon, no protests occurred until Monday. Why? Because the pope had been visiting the country, and the leader of Hezbollah, which the U.S. has labeled as a terrorist group, didn't want to do anything to interfere with the pope's historic three-day visit."

I expected better from you, YV. I really did. I expected you of all people to understand why what nearly everyone in this topic is doing is wrong.

First off, TQ... it's not thousands of people protesting. It's a few hundred radicals.

And your sophmoric rhetoric and "fuck-yous" show how short sighted you are. The fact that you can say what you said and then go hide in your little computer room without retaliation shows what a coward you are.

If you feel this strongly, then why aren't you out on the streets protesting? Why are you on a website that has so many people opposed to your beliefs?

I don't live in a Muslim or islamic nation so I can say whatever I want to say I don't have anyone standing outside my house waiting to torch it.

The only person "doing wrong" in this thread is YOU with your hate agenda. You, sir, are a bigot.

[QUOTE]No system or culture is superior to any other. [/QUOTE]

What a fricking moron!!!

Uh, yes, TQ, some are.

[b]INDIA
[/b]Most Indians own amobile phone, but don't have access to private toilets. The government and activists hope to help.
Out of 7935 towns, only 162 have sewage treatment plants.

I would have to say the United States Sewage system is SUPERIOR to India's.  Proove me wrong.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/world/2012/09/17/pkg-udas-india-open-toilets.cnn

[QUOTE] [b]Micrówave wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE]No system or culture is superior to any other. [/QUOTE]What a fricking moron!!!Uh, yes, TQ, some are.[b]INDIA[/b]Most Indians own a mobile phone, but don't have access to private toilets. The government and activists hope to help.Out of 7935 towns, only 162 have sewage treatment plants.I would have to say the United States Sewage system is SUPERIOR to India's.  Proove me wrong, dimwit.http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/world/2012/09/17/pkg-udas-india-open-toilets.cnn[/QUOTE]

So are you saying the Indian Joneses aren't keeping up with the Indiana Joneses?

What are you trying to tell me, TQ? That Indonesia is a great country because so many people buy a Lady Gaga ticket? Are you serious?

I never defended the stupid movie but there is a difference between criticizing it or asking to ban it from showing.

Do not tell me about the majority. Nobody ever had a problem with the majority anywhere in history. It is the loud and violent minority that causes the problems and makes the difference. Unfortunately, the silent majority often does not do much to stop the loud and violent minority, ask the Jews what the silent German majority did to help them (and I am NOT comparing Muslims with Nazis). Only very few Americans were involved in the invasion of Iraq but the hatred of the "Arab world" will not make the difference between the few and the whole USA. The "Arab world" will think that if the overwhelming majority had disapproved the war would not have happened.

Yes, I believe that my country is better than a Middle East country ruled by Muslim brothers or Ayatollahs. We do not have the death penalty, women are not considered inferior to men, there is no forced marriage, no enslaved women and no religion police harrassing people in the streets. Gay men are not hanged in public and people are not stoned to death or whipped in public for sex "crimes".

Yes, people may lose their home if they cannot pay for it but we have social security which helps everybody and even the poorest German person has a home with heating and electricity, healthy food to eat and clean water. They have a legal claim to the necessities of life and are not depending on the religious belief of a home owner. We do not exclude people because they have the "wrong" racial background or religion or colour. Of course we have racists, homophobes and other idiots but the legal systen is designed to protect people against discrimination.

We are in no way perfect but we have access to education, we have free speech and a non-violent, peace-loving society. No, I am not happy about the state of my country but I have faith that I can contribute to improve the society on every level. I am not someone who goes out to insult other nations and I think we should always help poorer countries to develop and improve and I think we should respect all countries but I expect at least a little respect for the rules and values of my country, as well.

I have a colleague who comes from Syria and he tells me a lot about the influence of Saudi Arabia and Iran on various parties in the so-called "Arab spring" and it is not good for minorities. I do not know how much I can trust his opinion but I get a very different picture than from the Western mainstream media.

I'm not even going to bother with the details of your post, YV. I'm too disgusted with you right now to wade my way through your endless rhetoric. I'm going to keep this very short: you claim that you don't hate the majority of muslims. Then you come up with "but the hatred of the "Arab world" will not make the difference between the few and the whole USA. The "Arab world" will think that if the overwhelming majority had disapproved the war would not have happened." And poof! Out the window goes the distinction between a few hundred loony fanatics and millions of people who are not involved.

Excuse me for not relying on your one Syrian colleague. I don't base my opinion around the word of one person. But don't worry YV. At least Micrówave is on your side.

I cannot say I am much bothered about you being disgusted with me, really :-) Funny how you quote the "" I used when I said "Arab World" but refuse to acknowledge the meaning of them. Of course it is easier to pick on one willfully misunderstood expression than to deal with the issues.

Actually, I do not hate the majority of Muslims - I do not hate even a minority of Muslims. I do not hate any people based on religion or anything. I detest what people do to other people no matter where they live or which religion they follow. I do criticize actions. Apparently, you are the one who is so unable to make these most basic distinctions. It does not matter which ideology is used to turn people into a raging mob - the results are always the same.

"our values which are not only different but better"

That is enough for me, YV. Anyone who will think in those terms, has gone astray. Nothing lies that way except fascism.

Oh my, lol. Now having an opinion already makes me a fascist. I am glad I never have to discuss anything with you in real life with all that unfounded name-calling. You are clearly a victim of political correctness running wild and not allowing you to look at any issue with an open mind. I have nothing but contempt for you - you enjoy all the freedom and free choices your culture gives you but you think it is wrong to point it out when the same freedom is missing elsewhere in this world? I am not suggesting to "export" my values to other countries in any way but I will always call extremism extremism no matter if the ideology is of political or religious origin.