Gaabiizz
Yes :')
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Unknown
Wow! Archibald P. Sparrow, what a lovely post. So many people have so many misconceptions about Freddie Mercury.
brENsKi
[b]Mr Sparrow, not wishing to knock the shine off your new perspective but
perhaps you need to read/search out a bit more about freddie, and you'll probably end up with a view of a person somewhere between angel and devil.[/b]
[i]"He accepted every aspect of himself so completely and knew exactly who he was and what he wanted from an early age."
[/i][b]no he didn't. he was in complete denial about his own sexuality -until at least the late 70s - he was in his 30s by then[/b]
[i]That is really freaking rare in my experience. How many people who are wasted from cancer are able to look at themselves in a mirror as critically as Freddie did in that last video shoot and stand it? He was incredibly brave and obviously very strong to be able to do that.[/i]
[b]please don't do this "cancer" thing. it doesn't work - until YOU have cancer and are dying from it (and i hope you never do) then you cannot say this. [/b]
[i]I think his wealth and the success of Queen happened because he was so at home in his own skin.[/i]
[b]you have no real proof of this[/b]
[i]And then he was able to help out his friends financially and materially. He seemed terribly generous to those close to him and very solicitous of their feelings and shielded them from different aspects of his life that could cause them upset. [/i]
[b]he was sexually promiscuous...to extremes. that's about all you need know about his personal life
the only thing we can all say safely about freddie - great musician[/b]
perhaps you need to read/search out a bit more about freddie, and you'll probably end up with a view of a person somewhere between angel and devil.[/b]
[i]"He accepted every aspect of himself so completely and knew exactly who he was and what he wanted from an early age."
[/i][b]no he didn't. he was in complete denial about his own sexuality -until at least the late 70s - he was in his 30s by then[/b]
[i]That is really freaking rare in my experience. How many people who are wasted from cancer are able to look at themselves in a mirror as critically as Freddie did in that last video shoot and stand it? He was incredibly brave and obviously very strong to be able to do that.[/i]
[b]please don't do this "cancer" thing. it doesn't work - until YOU have cancer and are dying from it (and i hope you never do) then you cannot say this. [/b]
[i]I think his wealth and the success of Queen happened because he was so at home in his own skin.[/i]
[b]you have no real proof of this[/b]
[i]And then he was able to help out his friends financially and materially. He seemed terribly generous to those close to him and very solicitous of their feelings and shielded them from different aspects of his life that could cause them upset. [/i]
[b]he was sexually promiscuous...to extremes. that's about all you need know about his personal life
the only thing we can all say safely about freddie - great musician[/b]
Heavenite
Hi Archie
Welcome to the Queen Forum. I'm relatively new on here too but unlike you I have been a Queen fan since Bo Rap. I think Freddie was fantastic, but a flawed individual like the rest of us (as BrENsKi basically says).
I only recently saw the latest Freddie Mercury video myself and found it to be excellent. And I thought the last bit was hilarious. He was an absolute character. I was laughing uncontrollably yet with tears in my eyes watching the end bit when he was talking about all the different countries. Only time I can recall doing that before was when a rather naive friend asked me whether I was going back to work that afternoon at my mother's funeral. Myself and a couple of close friends just cracked up and were having hysterics! And watching Freddie being so irreverant and blatantly materialistic, even if it was just in jest, cracked me up in a similar way..it still makes me laugh thinking about it...lol.
Welcome to the Queen Forum. I'm relatively new on here too but unlike you I have been a Queen fan since Bo Rap. I think Freddie was fantastic, but a flawed individual like the rest of us (as BrENsKi basically says).
I only recently saw the latest Freddie Mercury video myself and found it to be excellent. And I thought the last bit was hilarious. He was an absolute character. I was laughing uncontrollably yet with tears in my eyes watching the end bit when he was talking about all the different countries. Only time I can recall doing that before was when a rather naive friend asked me whether I was going back to work that afternoon at my mother's funeral. Myself and a couple of close friends just cracked up and were having hysterics! And watching Freddie being so irreverant and blatantly materialistic, even if it was just in jest, cracked me up in a similar way..it still makes me laugh thinking about it...lol.
Archibald P. Sparrow
[QUOTE]
Hi brENsKi, you touch on so many things I want to respond to:
[b]brENsKi said "[/b][i]Mr Sparrow, not wishing to knock the shine off your new perspective but[b] [/b]perhaps you need to read/search out a bit more about freddie, and you'll probably end up with a view of a person somewhere between angel and devil.[/i]
Totally agree. I'm just calling it as i saw it without knowing anything at all about the man. I've subsequently read stuff that suggests an absolutely over the top ego was at work for quite awhile there. I am open to it
all as far as this guy goes. You can't have the angel without the devil and I'd hate it if that was the case.[b]
brENski said [/b][i]"he was in complete denial about his own sexuality -until at least the late 70s - he was in his 30s by then."[/i] Although, naturally I defer to your experience, I disagree. Obviously he was with Mary Austin while he was figuring it all out but I believe when he took the step away from her he was in no denial at all (and he was young - you don't just wake up one morning and say, oh wow, I'm queer. it can be a lengthy, confronting and confusing process). I think from that point, though, he knew and plunged in, albeit [i]discretely.[/i] Discretion does not equate to denial. I'm after decent material to read/watch - how did you come to your conclusion. As I said, I'm happy to learn.
[b]brENsKi said "[/b][i]please don't do this "cancer" thing. it doesn't work - until YOU have cancer and are dying from it (and i hope you never do) then you cannot say this.[/i][b] [/b]
Sorry, my father died of cancer not too long ago so I guess his experience was in my mind both when I was watching the documentary and when I wrote that. And also in the early days of AIDS, which I remember all too clearly, we called it gay cancer because it didn't really have a name then. My point was Freddie was so vain, looking fantastic meant a lot to him and seeing himself looking so wasted must have been very hard to take yet he put himself through that last video. To me, that's courage and strength personified.
[b]Archie said[/b] [b]"[/b][i]I think his wealth and the success of Queen happened because he was so at home in his own skin.[/i]"
[b]brENsKi replied "[/b][i]you have no real proof of this[b]."[/b][/i][b]
[/b]
Well, I believe a crystal clear focus that harnesses all energy toward one outcome is key to success. I'm not sure you can achieve that, esp. as a performer, if you're scattered in your perception of who you are but whether it was true in this case, I agree, I have no proof but i like to [i]think[/i] it had something to do with it and i like to [i]think[/i] he was at home in his own skin (and I like to [i]think[/i] Superman really existed) ;) [b]
[i]
[/i][i]Archie said[/i][i] [/i][/b][i]"And then he was able to help out his friends financially and materially. He seemed terribly generous to those close to him and very solicitous of their feelings and shielded them from different aspects of his life that could cause them upset. [/i]
[b]brENsKi replied [i]"[/i][/b][i]he was sexually promiscuous...to extremes. that's about all you need know about his personal life[/i]."[b]
[/b]Again, sorry. I took this info from a documentary I saw and the book I'm reading - various interviews with people seemed to suggest it or say it outright. As it was in the public domain, I thought it would be up for discussion. Is there a list somewhere of what's allowed to be discussed and what isn't? Maybe you could point me to it.
BTW just being a person is sexually promiscuous, it doesn't discount them being an excellent person. We don't live in the stone age anymore. And promiscuity was a big part of the gay experience of the '70s/early '80s. I do know what went on at The Anvil, dear ;)
[b]
[/b]Thanks for you thoughtful reply. If you could recommend me a highly reputable book or documentary on the band, I would be really grateful.
[/QUOTE]
Hi brENsKi, you touch on so many things I want to respond to:
[b]brENsKi said "[/b][i]Mr Sparrow, not wishing to knock the shine off your new perspective but[b] [/b]perhaps you need to read/search out a bit more about freddie, and you'll probably end up with a view of a person somewhere between angel and devil.[/i]
Totally agree. I'm just calling it as i saw it without knowing anything at all about the man. I've subsequently read stuff that suggests an absolutely over the top ego was at work for quite awhile there. I am open to it
all as far as this guy goes. You can't have the angel without the devil and I'd hate it if that was the case.[b]
brENski said [/b][i]"he was in complete denial about his own sexuality -until at least the late 70s - he was in his 30s by then."[/i] Although, naturally I defer to your experience, I disagree. Obviously he was with Mary Austin while he was figuring it all out but I believe when he took the step away from her he was in no denial at all (and he was young - you don't just wake up one morning and say, oh wow, I'm queer. it can be a lengthy, confronting and confusing process). I think from that point, though, he knew and plunged in, albeit [i]discretely.[/i] Discretion does not equate to denial. I'm after decent material to read/watch - how did you come to your conclusion. As I said, I'm happy to learn.
[b]brENsKi said "[/b][i]please don't do this "cancer" thing. it doesn't work - until YOU have cancer and are dying from it (and i hope you never do) then you cannot say this.[/i][b] [/b]
Sorry, my father died of cancer not too long ago so I guess his experience was in my mind both when I was watching the documentary and when I wrote that. And also in the early days of AIDS, which I remember all too clearly, we called it gay cancer because it didn't really have a name then. My point was Freddie was so vain, looking fantastic meant a lot to him and seeing himself looking so wasted must have been very hard to take yet he put himself through that last video. To me, that's courage and strength personified.
[b]Archie said[/b] [b]"[/b][i]I think his wealth and the success of Queen happened because he was so at home in his own skin.[/i]"
[b]brENsKi replied "[/b][i]you have no real proof of this[b]."[/b][/i][b]
[/b]
Well, I believe a crystal clear focus that harnesses all energy toward one outcome is key to success. I'm not sure you can achieve that, esp. as a performer, if you're scattered in your perception of who you are but whether it was true in this case, I agree, I have no proof but i like to [i]think[/i] it had something to do with it and i like to [i]think[/i] he was at home in his own skin (and I like to [i]think[/i] Superman really existed) ;) [b]
[i]
[/i][i]Archie said[/i][i] [/i][/b][i]"And then he was able to help out his friends financially and materially. He seemed terribly generous to those close to him and very solicitous of their feelings and shielded them from different aspects of his life that could cause them upset. [/i]
[b]brENsKi replied [i]"[/i][/b][i]he was sexually promiscuous...to extremes. that's about all you need know about his personal life[/i]."[b]
[/b]Again, sorry. I took this info from a documentary I saw and the book I'm reading - various interviews with people seemed to suggest it or say it outright. As it was in the public domain, I thought it would be up for discussion. Is there a list somewhere of what's allowed to be discussed and what isn't? Maybe you could point me to it.
BTW just being a person is sexually promiscuous, it doesn't discount them being an excellent person. We don't live in the stone age anymore. And promiscuity was a big part of the gay experience of the '70s/early '80s. I do know what went on at The Anvil, dear ;)
[b]
[/b]Thanks for you thoughtful reply. If you could recommend me a highly reputable book or documentary on the band, I would be really grateful.
[/QUOTE]
Archibald P. Sparrow
[QUOTE]
[b]Hey, Heavenite, [/b]
thanks for the welcome. I agree with what you say totally. He absolutely reveled in his OTT lifestyle, didn't he, and he kind of did it all with a wink. I love that about him. He was completely irreverent! The only thing he seemed to really take seriously was the music. Everything else was there for his entertainment.
APS. [/QUOTE]
[b]Hey, Heavenite, [/b]
thanks for the welcome. I agree with what you say totally. He absolutely reveled in his OTT lifestyle, didn't he, and he kind of did it all with a wink. I love that about him. He was completely irreverent! The only thing he seemed to really take seriously was the music. Everything else was there for his entertainment.
APS. [/QUOTE]
Belladonic haze
[QUOTE]
[b]
brENsKi wrote:
he was sexually promiscuous...to extremes. that's about all you need know about his personal life [/b]
what?? how it's that something anyone needs to know about anyone's life! O_o
I would tend to think things like that should be utterly private?
How much more interesting would it be if all those biographers (and "friends") would have delved deeper into his formative years, into all the influences he absorbed since he was a quite young boy with all his travels, the cultures and religions he lived amidst, the music he listened to in his childhood and early youth and also when he was already famous (obviously it's much easier to write entire chapters devoted to his sexual appetite and his 190.029 lovers per minute than to mention lightly in one sentence "he was an Aretha Franklin fan", as it seems), or investigate and write about his art studies or his overall education, or his work ethics and his discipline and dedication, or the development of his vocal technique and range, and so many more things that would have helped paint a more throughly idea of the enormous artist and witty, kind, sassy person he was? All that stuff is given barely centimeters of print. And in any case it would be the stuff that matters.
I can't care LESS about his supposedly insatiable sexual appetites. I certainly don't NEED to know about his promiscuity, which in any case should have never been written about, printed and SOLD by so-called "friends" who "sooo" much loved him. The realm of the private was repeatedly and utterly violated by his adorable, trustworthy friends and collaborators. Nice move...
[/QUOTE]
[b]
brENsKi wrote:
he was sexually promiscuous...to extremes. that's about all you need know about his personal life [/b]
what?? how it's that something anyone needs to know about anyone's life! O_o
I would tend to think things like that should be utterly private?
How much more interesting would it be if all those biographers (and "friends") would have delved deeper into his formative years, into all the influences he absorbed since he was a quite young boy with all his travels, the cultures and religions he lived amidst, the music he listened to in his childhood and early youth and also when he was already famous (obviously it's much easier to write entire chapters devoted to his sexual appetite and his 190.029 lovers per minute than to mention lightly in one sentence "he was an Aretha Franklin fan", as it seems), or investigate and write about his art studies or his overall education, or his work ethics and his discipline and dedication, or the development of his vocal technique and range, and so many more things that would have helped paint a more throughly idea of the enormous artist and witty, kind, sassy person he was? All that stuff is given barely centimeters of print. And in any case it would be the stuff that matters.
I can't care LESS about his supposedly insatiable sexual appetites. I certainly don't NEED to know about his promiscuity, which in any case should have never been written about, printed and SOLD by so-called "friends" who "sooo" much loved him. The realm of the private was repeatedly and utterly violated by his adorable, trustworthy friends and collaborators. Nice move...
[/QUOTE]
brENsKi
the reason [b]it's pertinent[/b] is the thread title:
[i][b]was freddie mercury a good person?[/b][/i]
a person's morals are a significant contributing factor toward assessing whether they are good or bad.
so, sexually, freddie showed he had no morals whatsoever.
you might not [i]need[/i] to know. but once a person has been so [i][b]indiscreet[/b][/i] as to not care themselves, and their sex life became [i]public domain[/i] then it's their own fault. freddie was incredibly promiscuous and didn't seem to care who knew. so it's his own fault the info is out there.
the only point i am making is that - knowing this info is [b]relevan[/b]t.
think about it: if you're compiling a database and there's some data you have that you don't like. what happens if you discount all of the data [i][b]you don't like it[/b][/i]? - you get an[b] inaccurate result[/b]
therefore, freddie's lack of morals [b]MUST[/b] be counted toward assessing if he's good or bad. and something as significant as this must at least mean he was far from being good. maybe (at best) just an average person with [i]normal human flaws[/i] - so [b]neither good nor bad[/b]
let's stop making him out to be something he wasn't. he was a great musician/singer/writer - that's it
[i][b]was freddie mercury a good person?[/b][/i]
a person's morals are a significant contributing factor toward assessing whether they are good or bad.
so, sexually, freddie showed he had no morals whatsoever.
you might not [i]need[/i] to know. but once a person has been so [i][b]indiscreet[/b][/i] as to not care themselves, and their sex life became [i]public domain[/i] then it's their own fault. freddie was incredibly promiscuous and didn't seem to care who knew. so it's his own fault the info is out there.
the only point i am making is that - knowing this info is [b]relevan[/b]t.
think about it: if you're compiling a database and there's some data you have that you don't like. what happens if you discount all of the data [i][b]you don't like it[/b][/i]? - you get an[b] inaccurate result[/b]
therefore, freddie's lack of morals [b]MUST[/b] be counted toward assessing if he's good or bad. and something as significant as this must at least mean he was far from being good. maybe (at best) just an average person with [i]normal human flaws[/i] - so [b]neither good nor bad[/b]
let's stop making him out to be something he wasn't. he was a great musician/singer/writer - that's it
Belladonic haze
Therefore... he was a "bad" person? if he was sexually very active? or more: being very active sexually makes you "immoral"?
eh?
eh?
brENsKi
being very sexually active is NOT the same as extremely sexually promisuous - check the meaning
and DON'T try implying i said very active - i dind't
to back up what i said - here's a direct quote from freddie himself you decide if he was "sexually very active" or "extremely sexually promiscuous"
[i][b] Mercury said later. "I don't know if they would have had me on the record anyway, because I'm a bit old. I'm just an old slag who gets up every morning, scratches his head and wonders what he wants to fuck."
[/b][/i]
and DON'T try implying i said very active - i dind't
to back up what i said - here's a direct quote from freddie himself you decide if he was "sexually very active" or "extremely sexually promiscuous"
[i][b] Mercury said later. "I don't know if they would have had me on the record anyway, because I'm a bit old. I'm just an old slag who gets up every morning, scratches his head and wonders what he wants to fuck."
[/b][/i]
Missreclusive
APS, great addition to the thread...thank you. My experience with Queen was much the same although, besides liking the music I never delved deeper and knew little about the four guys until the past two years and then, all we can gather is what's recorded. Seems the more you see and read of Freddie...the more captive you are and the more you fall in love with the guy. I have literally listened to some Queen daily for quite a while now even though I do enjoy other artists. I'm sorry I didn't see Queen live back in the day when I had the chance to, I could have seen them in Houston or Dallas. Ah well, I did see QE this past year and it was too great! (yes, for another thread) Anyway, welcome.
Belladonic haze
I still don't get what you're trying to say, brENsKi. Extremely active or promiscuous... still determining how good or mean a person is?
I've had very promiscuous friends with really GOLDEN hearts and the kindest ways.
Anyway, I don't really need or want an answer or further development on this topic. I don't want to suddenly become what I'm trying to stay as further away as possible: people discussing other people's sexualities, specially Freddie's.
Over and out.
I've had very promiscuous friends with really GOLDEN hearts and the kindest ways.
Anyway, I don't really need or want an answer or further development on this topic. I don't want to suddenly become what I'm trying to stay as further away as possible: people discussing other people's sexualities, specially Freddie's.
Over and out.
Holly2003
Did we ever get an answer to this question? I mean, if a whole bunch of people who never met him can't come to a definitive answer about the man's character then I don't know what the world's coming to ...
brENsKi
[QUOTE] [b]Belladonic haze wrote:[/b]
I still don't get what you're trying to say, brENsKi. Extremely active or promiscuous... still determining how good or mean a person is?
[/QUOTE]
stop telling me i said something different to what i actually said.
i never said it determined how good he was. i said it's a contributing factor. i also said he was pretty much a normal person in that he had faults and flaws.
as you need it clarifying.
very active - you can be very active with the same person
extremely promiscuous - means you put it about lot -
very simple to understand
I still don't get what you're trying to say, brENsKi. Extremely active or promiscuous... still determining how good or mean a person is?
[/QUOTE]
stop telling me i said something different to what i actually said.
i never said it determined how good he was. i said it's a contributing factor. i also said he was pretty much a normal person in that he had faults and flaws.
as you need it clarifying.
very active - you can be very active with the same person
extremely promiscuous - means you put it about lot -
very simple to understand