New game - different rules

cmsdrums wrote:

Regardless of whether this is real (ie by the band) or 'fake' (created by someone outside QPL, it's quite odd to think that if a fan takes a few stems, or creats a mix of something, it's worth nothing in monetary terms but may artistically be very valid. However the same track may be given by the band to an outside person to create an 'official' mix which may then become highly sought after and valuable.

An example would be the vocal and guitar mix of I'm In Love with My Car from the recent deluxe reissues; if a fan had got hold of the master tracks and created exactly the same mix this would be completely disregarded by fandom, and would join the huge pile of 'bedroom mixes' out there.

Totally agree. Some non-Queen (ie, not created by Queen), semi-official or even unofficial mixes can be highly sought after, yet there are many 'fan mixes' which are FAR better than some that have managed to make it to CD or vinyl, which are largely disregarded, or simply labelled as 'fake'. How is a 'bedroom mix' different from other remixes, just because it was created by someone who is nothing more than a fan?

^ good points from CMS and Lord Fickle. My take on this is that fan mixes - even if "better" than an official release - are meant for the individual's enjoyment, or to be shared among like-minded fans who appreciate the effort put in. They may be valid, artistically, but obviously won't reach the same audience as an official release. Once exposed to an official version, that's what people become accustomed to: the fan mix then appears to be a "wannabe" effort. Sometimes I like trawling through the fan-mix section here: it can often be hit or miss, or even "samey", but now and again there is a wee gem - they are nice to listen to, but would I run out and add to my vinyl collection? Probably not: for enjoyment, it would fit the purpose - but if it made its way onto CD or vinyl, it would be nothing more than an uncommissioned bootleg, worth nowt but the effort put in.

OK, so talking hypotheticals, let's take the Basic Bootlegs CD. This was a Hollywood CD of remixes which was never released, and is now, I believe, a sought out collectors item. However, the remixes themselves would be largely unappealing to Queen fans (well, they are to me at any rate), so what makes this CD valuable? If a group of fan-mixers put out their own CD of more "likeable" mixes (subjective, I know, but you get the gist), that would probably be dismissed by collectors and the Queen community at large. So, what's the difference? I bet some or most of the Hollywood Basic Bootlegs CD mixes were created in someone's bedroom, and, I believe it was only ever a CD-R!

Because they were commissioned remixes that ended up being binned, but then were put out commercially in low numbers. Therefore it was official, and hard to obtain. A fan mix, whether better artistically, is only available within a certain community, and doesn't get as much exposure. They are meant to be enjoyed and, in that sense, are not actually being dismissed - they are being listened to, by fans, and are being enjoyed. But they're not valuable, and will never be a collectors item.

hmm to me the vocals sound very thin and not overdubbed in any way shape or form, like freddie did... hmmmm interesting saying that it cud be just my horrible hearing haha

Thistleboy1980 wrote:

Because they were commissioned remixes that ended up being binned, but then were put out commercially in low numbers. Therefore it was official, and hard to obtain. A fan mix, whether better artistically, is only available within a certain community, and doesn't get as much exposure. They are meant to be enjoyed and, in that sense, are not actually being dismissed - they are being listened to, by fans, and are being enjoyed. But they're not valuable, and will never be a collectors item.

Yeah, point taken. I hadn't considered that side of it.

Lord Fickle wrote: OK, so talking hypotheticals, let's take the Basic Bootlegs CD. This was a Hollywood CD of remixes which was never released, and is now, I believe, a sought out collectors item. However, the remixes themselves would be largely unappealing to Queen fans (well, they are to me at any rate), so what makes this CD valuable? If a group of fan-mixers put out their own CD of more "likeable" mixes (subjective, I know, but you get the gist), that would probably be dismissed by collectors and the Queen community at large. So, what's the difference? I bet some or most of the Hollywood Basic Bootlegs CD mixes were created in someone's bedroom, and, I believe it was only ever a CD-R!

Most Of The "Hollywood Records" remixes are cringe worthy & if they were put here on say the "Fan Mixes" forum  prior to them being "Officially" released, I would imagine most comments would be negative. Just because they got an official release in the U.S. does not make them better & to be honest "my guess" to why they were allowed onto the CD releases, in the first place, was due to the fact that when Queen Signed to Hollywood Records, Hollywood were not aware of  Freddie's Illness, so in a sweetener,  the remixes were allowed to be made & Included on the re-releases. (again, my guess)

Personally when I hear a remix, I would rather it all be Queen's Music, but for some reason, you tend to get, the vocal track, but with completely different music that's not even Queen playing.  I wasn't fond of the "You Don't Fool Me"  Remixes either.

In my opinion, some of the fan mixes are 100% better & if "Queen" (Jim Beach) ever wanted to commission a remix album,  it would be wise for him & Brian & Roger, to look up the talents of PiotreQ, Daniel vz & Fickle. (But they won't, they would rather put out some tripe like the "Freddie, Lover Of Life" CD Remixes.) Also & I mean this as no offense to the "Talent House" Remix winner of "Don't Stop Me Now", but Brian & Rogers Choice for the winner, was lets say..... very "Now!!"  & I personally, did not like it.

  It could be that, most of the long term Queen fans have already spent loads of money & that Maybe it's a marketing ploy, to appeal to a younger audience , that upon discovering "Queen" through the Crappy Remixes, in clubs ect, that they will get hooked & then backtrack their way through Queen's back catalog, emptying their pockets along the way.....Just a thought.

A Word In Your Ear wrote:

Just because they got an official release in the U.S. does not make them better & to be honest "my guess" to why they were allowed onto the CD releases, in the first place, was due to the fact that when Queen Signed to Hollywood Records, Hollywood were not aware of  Freddie's Illness, so in a sweetener,  the remixes were allowed to be made & Included on the re-releases. (again, my guess)

Exclusive bonus tracks on cds were all the rage on the re-releases of the early 90's, and Hollywood wasn't going to miss that boat.

They inlcuded the b-sides and extended versions whenever it was possible, but Queen wasn't interested in giving them any exclusive material for the rest of the albums.

That's why they needed the custom-made remixes, and it didn't really matter what they sounded like as long as you could print the magic words BONUS TRACK on the back of the album.

^ hit the nail on the head, tero! Great point, well made :)

tero! 48531 wrote:

Exclusive bonus tracks on cds were all the rage on the re-releases of the early 90's, and Hollywood wasn't going to miss that boat.

They inlcuded the b-sides and extended versions whenever it was possible, but Queen wasn't interested in giving them any exclusive material for the rest of the albums.

That's why they needed the custom-made remixes, and it didn't really matter what they sounded like as long as you could print the magic words BONUS TRACK on the back of the album.

Agreed,  But I would imagine,  that Queen would get a say in any material that get's released officially, that could potentially damage their credibility.  I wouldn't have thought That "Hollywood Records"  Couldn't  just, "Willy Nilly"  put things on an album without QPL, saying "Yes" first.

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But Alternatively............ 

The conversation between  Jim Beach & Hollywood could have gone something like this. (And again,  from my figment of my mind, lol!!!)

HR "Hey Jim, You Never told us about that Freddie was dying, when you signed the 5 new album deal"
JB "Oh Yeah, it slipped my mind" 
HR, "Then how are you going to honour the 5 new album deal?" 
JB "Hmmmm!!!....Let Me Think.....Oh Yeah, we'll deliver some live albums"
HR "Not Good Enough...We need new material"
JB  "There's nothing in the archives"
HR "Then were gonna have to sue your asses"
JB  "No, Wait, What about the back catalog"
HR "What about it, most people own it already"
JB  "You could do some new remixes to be added as bonus tracks"
HR "Oh Yeah, Jim, I see where you are going with this"
JB  "Remix, remix, remix boy's that's the way to go..honest"
HR "Ok Jim, we'll commission some remixers to come up with some new "Trendy '90's"  remixes & as said, include them as bonuses, that way, we'll get people to spend their money again."
JB  "Yes, that's it boys, I like your thinking"
HR  "Would you like to hear the remixed tracks first?"
JB  "Nah!!! Just put them on the albums, as long as it makes us all more money & the problem about us Breaching the 5 album deal, by not disclosing that Freddie was dying goes away."

HR  "Sorted"
JB   "Sorted"

But I do believe that Hollywood Records did deliver some decent mixes, the Brian Malouf remix of Fat Bottomed Girls sounds very enjoyable to me, near close to a demo version as he made use of some ad lib from Freddie and a great Brian intro, almost a new intro. Malouf's remixes of I can't Live With You and Hammer To Fall are decent to, just about enough mixing done, to stay to the orginal. But on the other hand, the remix of Seven Seas was a complete miss, and really out of place on the whole Queen II concept. The same goes for Bicycle Race, speaking on missing a boat while jumping on the wagon to make a re-issue interesting.........

Tom

Brain May: have to have some fun.............

What about the 2005 remix of "It's a Beautiful day"? I thought that was a fan mix and then it was used in Queen and Paul Rodger's tour and even released as a download only single. Anybody know the story of this one?

I think it was originally on the Floss FM website, I think the guy was called David Backhouse. He also did some of the earliest "duet"-mixes of Heaven For Everyone and Too Much Love Will Kill You. I used to have a disc filled with all the Queen Fanmixers remixes. There were some great ideas in there - I recall a remix of How Can I Go On in a dance-style which was quite good.

A Word In Your Ear wrote:Agreed,  But I would imagine,  that Queen would get a say in any material that get's released officially, that could potentially damage their credibility.  I wouldn't have thought That "Hollywood Records"  Couldn't  just, "Willy Nilly"  put things on an album without QPL, saying "Yes" first.

That's true as well, but I can only assume that both parties were well aware of it during the contract negotions.

Hollywood records would have proposed a series of re-releases with 1-2 exclusive bonus tracks on each album, which would be provided and/or accepted by Queen Productions.

Queen provided the tracks when they were confortable, and vetoed some of the remixes they didn't like.
I assume that's why the number of remixes varies from album to album.

Pim, Floss FM is correct, but the guy who made the mixes was Ross Robertson, I'm sure his name is Ross, not sure about his surname though. David Backhouse made some fab mixes too....

Tom