Queen Myths People Tend to Swallow

Also on Freddie's guitar - he probably wasn't as bad as his self-deprecating humour suggested but during live shows I was always under the impression the majority of the guitar work for CLTCL was picked up by Brian with Freddie just playing the opening chords and then effectively becoming backing guitar for the rest of the song. Hence he'd often playfully wave his hands away from his guitar during the song and there'd be absolutely no audible difference.

[QUOTE]

[b]Snackpot wrote: [/b] Roger did 'write' Innuendo in terms of being the chief lyricist. Under pre-1989 arrangements he almost certainly would have been credited as the sole song-writer. Similar to how he was AKOM despite the fact Freddie played a large part in the (re)arrangement to make the track more commercially viable.[/QUOTE]

I was always under the impression that Roger wrote the lyrics (he said it was his tribute to Led Zeppelin, hence the rather Kashmir-like aspects of it) and Freddie wrote the music. Not sure where I got that from, though.

[QUOTE]

[b]Snackpot wrote: [/b] Also on Freddie's guitar - he probably wasn't as bad as his self-deprecating humour suggested but during live shows I was always under the impression the majority of the guitar work for CLTCL was picked up by Brian with Freddie just playing the opening chords and then effectively becoming backing guitar for the rest of the song. Hence he'd often playfully wave his hands away from his guitar during the song and there'd be absolutely no audible difference.[/QUOTE]

Always the consummate showman.

As for his skill on guitar... well, he composed Ogre Battle on acoustic guitar, didn't he? That alone suggests he had a [i]lot[/i] more skill than he told me.

[QUOTE] [b]Supersonic_Man89 wrote:[/b]

How are you so sure on some of the post AKOM tracks as to which member wrote what?[/QUOTE]

I'm not, as those things can never be established as 100% facts. In fact, we can't be sure about the pre-AKOM tracks either, as credits can say whatever they want but they're sometimes misleading or at least incomplete. However, in most cases there's enough evidence to strongly suspect (which is not the same as 'being so sure' but is way way way mroe than merely guessing or speculating) who wrote what both before and after AKOM.

[QUOTE] [b]Supersonic_Man89 wrote:[/b]

Some we know from interviews like TSMGO[/QUOTE]

And even then, people can misremember, exaggerate or simply lie when being interviewed. Witnesses are often largely unreliable.

[QUOTE] [b]Supersonic_Man89 wrote:[/b]

never aware people knew the true writer of Innuendo, and rumors suggested it was Roger.[/QUOTE]

It's way out of his league.

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

Roger did 'write' Innuendo in terms of being the chief lyricist.[/QUOTE]

However, he didn't write the music, so under 1989 rules it would've still been credited to May/Mercury/Taylor, or Mercury/Taylor.

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

Similar to how he was AKOM despite the fact Freddie played a large part in the (re)arrangement to make the track more commercially viable.[/QUOTE]

It's not the same case: Roger wrote both music and lyrics on AKOM, Freddie arranged it. For 'Innuendo', Roger wrote lyrics, but not music at all.

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

Also on Freddie's guitar - he probably wasn't as bad as his self-deprecating humour suggested but during live shows I was always under the impression the majority of the guitar work for CLTCL was picked up by Brian with Freddie just playing the opening chords and then effectively becoming backing guitar for the rest of the song. Hence he'd often playfully wave his hands away from his guitar during the song and there'd be absolutely no audible difference.[/QUOTE]

There was some difference, only it was subtle as it was, well, rhythm guitar, and there was a lot going on at the same time to cover it up (drums, bass, piano, lead guitar, vocals, audience noises).

[QUOTE] [b]thefantasticdrowse wrote:[/b]

he said it was his tribute to Led Zeppelin[/QUOTE]

Just to be pedantic: no, he didn't. He said it was 'Oscar Wilde meets Led Zeppelin', but that quote doesn't at all claim or imply it was 'his' tribute to LZ. It probably was, though.

[QUOTE] [b]thefantasticdrowse wrote:[/b]

Freddie wrote the music.[/QUOTE]

TBF, Freddie wrote most of the music, but not all. Brian was there too. Musically it's Freddie/Brian, lyrically it's Freddie/Roger.

Freddie WAS a shitty guitarist. He could only just about manage to finger the 6 or so chords in CLTCL. Watch his chord fingering, it's all over the place sometimes to the point he just gives up.

Loads of people with horrible left-hand fingerings are still decent players, Freddie included.

Brian produced a large part of the music to SSoR yet the song was still credited solely to Freddie as he was the lyricist. He also worked closely with Freddie on It's a Hard Life but, again, as Freddie was the chief lyricist he received sole song-writing credit. The rule seems to have been whoever 'gave birth' to the song, regardless of what changes and alterations were made to it during the recording process would be credited as the writer. Hence why Brain received no credit for SSoR, Mercury for AKOM or AOBTD - both songs he had a HUGE influence over the music/sound . So I'm not sure Innuendo would have been credited to anyone other than Roger. The fact Freddie wrote or re-wrote some or most of the music doesn't seem to be in line with something that would have been seen as deserving of a credit pre 1989.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

Loads of people with horrible left-hand fingerings are still decent players, Freddie included.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, I could relate to that, particularly in the first few years that I slowly started picking up on guitars. I recall one of my former bandmates ribbing me for the way, for instance, I would form the open D chord position. My index, middle and ring finger would always be on the 3rd, 2nd and 1st string respectively, whereas Brian and Freddie would have theirs (in the same finger order) on the 3rd, 1st and 2nd strings which for me feels totally weird and uncomfortable to mimic!

I just chalk this up to me learning pretty much on my own how to play guitar, since I never had lessons. If anything I prefer to take my time with that anyways, and spend time studying videos of other guitarists' methods to see what works for me and what doesn't :-)

That being said, I have to date NEVER ever seen any other guitar player use the position that Freddie uses on his G chords! o.O

Another Queen myth people tend to swallow: Queen after Freddie's death.

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

Brian produced a large part of the music to SSoR[/QUOTE]

A middle eight is not 'a large part', it's eight bars, out of 60+.

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

the song was still credited solely to Freddie as he was the lyricist.[/QUOTE]

Not just the lyricist, but also the main composer. Even if Brian wrote the middle-eight, that'd mean Freddie still wrote circa 90% of the music.

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

The rule seems to have been whoever 'gave birth' to the song, regardless of what changes and alterations were made to it during the recording process would be credited as the writer.

So I'm not sure Innuendo would have been credited to anyone other than Roger.[/QUOTE]

In that case, it'd have been credited to Freddie, as he was the one who started it, and *then* Roger took it over (lyrically, NOT musically).

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

The fact Freddie wrote or re-wrote some or most of the music doesn't seem to be in line with something that would have been seen as deserving of a credit pre 1989.[/QUOTE]

Freddie didn't just write a middle-eight for it, he composed the whole thing (with Brian), so it's not the same case. On 'Magic' and 'Ga Ga', Freddie contributed to arrangements but the songs had already been written. On 'Innuendo' he wrote it, and then they arranged it together. Not the same case at all.

When you dissect a post to respond almost line for line as you have it makes it very difficult to reply. I never understood why people feel the need to do this. As if others would be confused as to what they're speaking about unless they write it specifically under the six or seven words they're directly responding to.

Brian's contribution to SSoR was far more than just eight bars and it was a issue of contention between the two over who should have got the writing credit. Given how every song must have involved some kind of collaboration to some degree it would be unusual for Brian to get prissy over an eight-bar contribution. Brian his since spoke of his contribution and of his disappointment Freddie refused to share the writing credit. Again, as every song they ever produced must have had significant input from others during the recording process it is highly unlikely the bone of contention between the two is because of a middle eight.

[QUOTE] [b]Snackpot wrote:[/b]

When you dissect a post to respond almost line for line as you have it makes it very difficult to reply. I never understood why people feel the need to do this.[/QUOTE]

It's not a need, it's a choice. I'm wearing a blue shirt today. It doesn't mean it has to be blue otherwise the earth will implode, it doesn't mean I hate the other colours, I just happened to choose a blue one because I felt comfortable with it. Same here: I don't 'need' to respond this way, I'm not against other ways of replying, but I chose this one because I like its clarity and precision.

As for SSOR... the topic deserves to be discussed in detail, hopefully soon, but the fact remains that Freddie got the credit for (at the very least) the piano motif, the structure, the melody, the lyrics, some (not all) chord progressions, some (not all) of the arrangements. That's way way way more than what Roger did on 'Innuendo': Roger completed (but didn't start) the lyrics, didn't write the motif, didn't write the structure, didn't write the melody, didn't write the chord progressions and was minimally involved in the arrangements. Roger was the chief lyricist of 'Innuendo' but not a chief composer at all.

This is a great topic Sebastian.

I think it would be bether to create a different topic for "Innuendo" and "The Miracle", because it seems that people have a lot to say about the songwriting of these records and it would be great if this information doesn´t get lost between all the other Myths.

But here is my input regarding Innuendo:

- Innuendo -the song- guitarrist Steve Howe from Yes was the man who played the spanish section in the middle section. One could think that this was composed by a guitarplayer (Brian or Howe), but in fact it was composed by Freddie. Howe mentioned that he was asked to play on guitar what Freddie recorded on the keyboard.

-"These are the Days of our lifes"- Roger asked for Freddie´s input because he felt stalled about the direction to take the music and Freddie wrote the music for what i believe was the section for Brian´s guitar solo. (that´s the only part of the song that´s really different from the rest.)
Brian wrote the solo, wich at first Roger didn´t like it, but now he loves it.

Here goes another myth:

John Deacon plays the guitar on "Who needs you". Well, acording to Brian he doesn´t. Its´s a cheap Brian acoustic guitar and that´s Brian playing the song.

That´s it for now.

John did play guitar on that song - rhythm guitar, that is. Brian did the solos.

Opening a new thread about post-Magic songwriting is indeed a great idea.