World Cup 2014 Draw

I get what you're saying Barbara, but not sure I can fully agree with it: both Ivory Coast and Cameroon have some quality players (notably Drogba and Eto'o, but there are more such as Seb Bassong, Assou-Ekotto, Salamon Kalou, Tiote, Alex Song, Kolo Toure, Yaya Toure, Gervinho....all of whom have English Premiership experience with the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, Manchester City etc). They may not have the greatest teams in the world to beat in order to qualify, but it is still tough, as teams like Senegal, Ghana, South Africa have recent World Cup experience and have pulled off more than the odd "shock". When you compare and contrast, what do the Europeans have to do to qualify? Beat San Marino, Kazakhstan, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Iceland, Macedonia, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Armenia, Faroe Islands, Andorra.....SCOTLAND??? It's all relative. Sure, it's a shame that Sweden didn't make it, but they just didn't bring it in the end. The Africans have their right to be there, and would it truly be a WORLD cup without them?

[QUOTE] [b]Mr.Jingles wrote:[/b]

Hence why they are #4 on the FIFA ranking.[/QUOTE]

You're really going to use the FIFA rankings as an argument? The FIFA rankings may as well be composed as a One Direction song for all they're worth :p

Seriously, though, they don't mean a thing as it works on how you're performing over the last few games. Not so long ago, Croatia (yes, fucking Croatia) were in that very #4 slot, and Scotland went and beat them twice in their qualifiers. Indeed, Scotland have NEVER lost to Croatia but NEVER beaten Japan.....I'm sure you know where I'm going.....

but that's the correct way that seedings should work...current form.
what's the point in basing seedings on anything other than the past four/five years?

it doesn't work.

1. half the players (from longer than five years ago) are no longer in the squads
2. managers have come and gone
3. a handful of wins against teams that were highly ranked ten years ago but are now fairly average do not merit consideration
4. how you did in a world cup/concacef/cup of nations/euro championships ten years ago should never count.

^ I'm not saying that it should be based on anything over the last five years, but there;s current and there's current. I mean, winning two or three games in a row catapults you but forgets everything that's happened in the games leading up to that. My point is that the rankings are not exactly an accurate reflection of how things actually are - with the Scotland scenario highlighting it. I mean we beat Croatia twice in the space of four games, but they were in the top 4 in the WORLD. Really? Yet Japan, who because of their current ranking should be pushovers according to Mr.J, we have NEVER beaten. No-one can say that because a side is higher up the rankings, they are certainties to qualify.

And I don't think it's right to call the African sides "third class" either. They can play, and play well. They'll be difficult to overcome.

Wasn't it Pele who reckoned that an African side would win the World Cup sooner rather than later? I mean, what would he know....

I certainly didn't call any teams from any continent "third class"

Pele reckoned (in 1977) that an African side would win the world cup before 2000.  To date not a single African team has progressed beyond a ¼-final.  - SIX world cups and plenty of African teams having a"chance"

Pele is actually the wrong person to quote - he may have been a genius with a ball at his feet but is more clown than sage once his mouth is open.- here's some of his most barmy quotes:

[b]Pele Prediction: China will qualify for the next round from their 2002 World Cup group.[/b]
Outcome: China finish bottom of Group C with no wins, no draws, no points, no goals, as well as -9 in their goal-difference column.

[b]Pele Prediction: Spain are favourites for the 1998 World Cup in France.[/b]
Outcome: Spain humiliatingly dumped out in the first round after losing to Nigeria, and drawing with Paraguay.

[b]Pele Prediction: Colombia will win the 1994 World Cup in the USA.[/b]
Outcome: Colombia exit the competition in the first round, finishing bottom of their group. Their defender Andres Escobar is also tragically shot dead by an angry fan after Colombia return home.

[b]Pele Prediction: Argentina & France will both reach the 2002 final.[/b]
Outcome: Both countries eliminated in the first round, France without even scoring a goal.

Pele Prediction: Ronaldo will never play football again, and his career is over, following a serious injury for Milan in February 2008.[/b]
Outcome: Ronaldo returns in March 2009 for Corinthians, scoring 10 goals in his first 14 games to win the Campeonato Paulista.

[b]Pele Prediction: After starring in the 1991 Under-17 World Cup, which also featured Alessandro Del Piero, Pele proclaims Ghana youngster Lamptey as his successor, ‘The New Pele’.[/b]
Outcome: What happens next goes down in football infamy. Lamptey spectacularly fails to fulfil his talent, believing himself that he was cursed by dark forces. The midfielder shifts around clubs such as PSV, Aston Villa, Coventry, Venezia and Ankaragucu, without success. 

[b]Pele Prediction: Nicky Barmby will become a world class star.[/b]
Outcome: Nicky Barmby becomes nothing more than an average player, winning 23 England caps, and never even appearing in a World Cup.

[b]Pele Prediction: An African nation will win the World Cup before the year 2000.[/b]
Outcome: It is now 2010, and an African country has still yet to get past the quarter-final.

[b]Pele Prediction: Brazil won’t even get past the 2002 group stages.[/b]
Outcome: Brazil win the World Cup.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

I certainly didn't call any teams from any continent "third class"

[/QUOTE]

No, not you mate, I was referring to Barbara's comment just slightly above yours.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]


[b]Pele Prediction: China will qualify for the next round from their 2002 World Cup group.[/b]
Outcome: China finish bottom of Group C with no wins, no draws, no points, no goals, as well as -9 in their goal-difference column.

[b]Pele Prediction: Spain are favourites for the 1998 World Cup in France.[/b]
Outcome: Spain humiliatingly dumped out in the first round after losing to Nigeria, and drawing with Paraguay.

[b]Pele Prediction: Colombia will win the 1994 World Cup in the USA.[/b]
Outcome: Colombia exit the competition in the first round, finishing bottom of their group. Their defender Andres Escobar is also tragically shot dead by an angry fan after Colombia return home.

[b]Pele Prediction: Argentina & France will both reach the 2002 final.[/b]
Outcome: Both countries eliminated in the first round, France without even scoring a goal.

Pele Prediction: Ronaldo will never play football again, and his career is over, following a serious injury for Milan in February 2008.[/b]
Outcome: Ronaldo returns in March 2009 for Corinthians, scoring 10 goals in his first 14 games to win the Campeonato Paulista.

[b]Pele Prediction: After starring in the 1991 Under-17 World Cup, which also featured Alessandro Del Piero, Pele proclaims Ghana youngster Lamptey as his successor, ‘The New Pele’.[/b]
Outcome: What happens next goes down in football infamy. Lamptey spectacularly fails to fulfil his talent, believing himself that he was cursed by dark forces. The midfielder shifts around clubs such as PSV, Aston Villa, Coventry, Venezia and Ankaragucu, without success. 

[b]Pele Prediction: Nicky Barmby will become a world class star.[/b]
Outcome: Nicky Barmby becomes nothing more than an average player, winning 23 England caps, and never even appearing in a World Cup.

[b]Pele Prediction: An African nation will win the World Cup before the year 2000.[/b]
Outcome: It is now 2010, and an African country has still yet to get past the quarter-final.

[b]Pele Prediction: Brazil won’t even get past the 2002 group stages.[/b]
Outcome: Brazil win the World Cup.[/QUOTE]

LOL - I knew we'd get there :p

My point exactly: no-one can say for certain that the "stronger" teams are more likely to progress - Spain, Argentina, France, Columbia all touted as favourites before and fell at first hurdle. And they were "up there" in the, ahem, pointless rankings.

I don't KNOW that my predictions are correct, but I'd be happy to go to the bookies with them :)

Btw, and tbf, Nicky Barmby had the potential to be a world class player, and should've. But that's a different debate lol....

that argument doesn't stand up.because for every English player like Barmby i could probably name three Brazillians who also didn't quite attain that "immortality of world class"

so i'll start the betting with
Kaka, - injury plagued (like barmby)
denilson - went to wrong club for big money - Betis
Adriano - alcoholism
robinho - man city and not fitting in/trying

I'd actually have put Kaka in the World class bracket, tbh, despite his injury plagued career. He's been a FIFA World Player of the Year, a Ballon d'Or winner, won honours at the highest level with AC Milan and Real madrid, a World Cup winner with Brazil, he's won two Confederations cups, been top scorer for each of his clubs, a top scorer and top assister for Brazil, been named in several best team selections - all among numerous other honours and awards. He's played over 80 games for Brazil, approaching 90 - with an average of a goal every three games (not bad for an attacking midfielder). Okay, not as prolific as Cristiano Ronaldo, but you get the point lol.

Not anything to do with his footballing abilities, but he's supposed to be a great guy off the field, and quite the humanitarian (work with the UN etc) His wife is also a World Class hotty!!

Robinho was NEVER going to be World class, just for the reason you gave: he's a lazy bastard. A good player, but he doesn't give a shit.

The other two (Denilson and Adriano) I'll give ya ;)

I hope it is not taken as arrogant or even racist when I call teams third class, it's really just a fact. The FIFA ranking list cannot be taken seriously because most African and Asian teams have only very few matches against other teams between the world cups.

I understand that there is a universal love for football and African teams would be rightfully disappointed if they had no chance to qualify, at all but at the same time I dislike the fact that real strong teams are ruled out by the qualification rules to make room for much weaker teams which proceed to the tournament via quotas. The world cup is not the Olympics where everyone can take part, it's the biggest football tournament and sports criteria should decide who takes part imo. We would have much more different world cup winners if Brazil or Italy or Germany would have to play against each other in the group stage. Instead, the "favourites" are separated from each other in the group stage through the seeding system, so they kick out the weaker teams before the play offs. You can just as well start the tournament at the play off stage. The incidental "sensational" exception does not justify this system imo.

[QUOTE] [b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]

I hope it is not taken as arrogant or even racist when I call teams third class, it's really just a fact. The FIFA ranking list cannot be taken seriously because most African and Asian teams have only very few matches against other teams between the world cups.

I understand that there is a universal love for football and African teams would be rightfully disappointed if they had no chance to qualify, at all but at the same time I dislike the fact that real strong teams are ruled out by the qualification rules to make room for much weaker teams which proceed to the tournament via quotas. The world cup is not the Olympics where everyone can take part, it's the biggest football tournament and sports criteria should decide who takes part imo. We would have much more different world cup winners if Brazil or Italy or Germany would have to play against each other in the group stage. Instead, the "favourites" are separated from each other in the group stage through the seeding system, so they kick out the weaker teams before the play offs. You can just as well start the tournament at the play off stage. The incidental "sensational" exception does not justify this system imo.

[/QUOTE]

I don't think your comments are arrogant or racist at all - you do have a point, as I feel the same way about even having San Marino and their ilk playing "competitively". I also agree about the rankings/seeding system. But it's not "fact" at all that the African sides are third class. Your argument is based on the Swedes (for example) being stronger, but that's not always the case: they are extremely hit and miss. Every dog has it's day and all. What I'd do, because it IS logistically possible, is have a "preliminary qualifier" where the lowest of the low each vie for a spot among the bigger sides, thus only a handful would go through. After this, I'd then make the proper qualification process global instead of regional, so European sides could play African/Asian/South American sides. This would make it fairer and iron out the issue once and for all. As for seeding at the Finals? It wouldn't happen. I'd be happy to see a group consisting of Brazil, Spain, Argentina and Germany with only two going through. I don't think seeding should happen in ANY tournament in ANY sport - a tourney should literally be "luck of the draw". If that, for any reason, led to a World Cup final contested between Iran and Iceland, at least it would borne from integrity over favouritism.

i think they should scrap the continent based qualification process.

in these days of quick and easy travel - all 207 competing countries should be drawn like a knock out based on best net result over two home/away games.
so in effect you'd have a
first round with 158 countries and 49 byes - all selected at random
second round 128 countries
third round 64 countries
final 32 go to finals

only proviso - you'd have to separate seed from playing each other first two rounds

so in theory england could play china, and uruguay in the pre-tournament knockouts

^ I'd prefer groups, but the straight knockout would work too :)

....as long as the proviso you advise was scrapped: the seeding idea sucks big time. Luck of the draw all the way.