Red Special Super arrival (Finally)

Thanks inu-liger. Yes of course the Guild's I forgot to mention these. In 84 BM used the first Guild model. Fitted with different pickups and a Kalher trem. In the early 90's a second version was available. BM used a prototype of this guitar on the Back to The Light Tour. Although the proto was brown, the red production Guilds were cherry red. The second version had a more accurate trem and schaller roller bridge, but the scratch plate was way off. The pickups were Seymour Duncan copies of the Trisonics fitted to BM's guitar. Both easy to spot. White Guild logo on the headstock.

Thanks for your replies, Inu-liger and Vocal Harmony.
While rehearsing on the Guyton guitars i have found a scalloped neck Brian May guitar that he had used on the Q+PR 2005 tour. This is news for me! Brian May is going Malmsteen :-)

I heard Malmsteen say that a scalloped guitar really does wonders to vibrato, but it´s more difficult to play. I wonder if he practiced some arpeggios and neo-classical rock on it. Maybe some early Blackmore stuff as well. Either way, this is a great topic, and i absolutely love the Red Special. Probably the most valuable guitar in the world.

[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]

The Guyton logo was very noticeable on the headstock, never mind the body's colour finish was much more red (and therefore nearly identical to the original RS) than the Fryer model that he'd favoured for drop D tuning.

And yes, he still does use the original RS in concert to this day. It's the one that has the sixpence glued to the headstock :-)[/QUOTE]

I've never noticed the sixpence on the headstock. I can usually tell on video footage if the real Red Special is being used simply because most of the replicas are the wrong colour, plus the scratchplate is scratched to death on the real RS from the sixpence and the pickup covers are dented and also scratched to death. The fingerboard also looks a lot more worn on the real Red Special. It just has a lived in and beaten up look that none of the replicas have.

Brian used the Green Guyton for Fat Bottomed Girls at iHeart (pic enclosed) which is the first time for a while that he hasn't used the Rosewood Fryer in drop D, so looks like it may well have been damaged, can I ask how you knew it was damaged? not heard anything about that.

I doubt it was dry ice, that shouldn't do much, even if you walk past the machine with shorts on it's no colder than if you are standing outside on a winters day.  it could have been a Pyro that landed on or near the guitar, none were played next to it, but I guess one could have landed there.

Regarding the Super used at the QPR shows, Barry told me that Pete originally put a small amount of masking tape on the guitar spelling out 'Super', which i have seen a pic of, they then sent the guitar to the factory to be measured and compared for new run of production guitars and somehow they damaged it, so when it came back the guitar had a MUCH larger masking tape stencil on it (the one we have all seen) Underneath the finish it scratched.

Great information Togg.
I originally thought that Brian was playing a Metal May guitar, because i thought it was a black one, and i believed that Brian was only trying to promote his guitars :-)
Now, it´s pretty obvious that it´s the Green Guyton.

[QUOTE] [b]Mr.QueenFan wrote:[/b]

Thanks for your replies, Inu-liger and Vocal Harmony.
While rehearsing on the Guyton guitars i have found a scalloped neck Brian May guitar that he had used on the Q+PR 2005 tour. This is news for me! Brian May is going Malmsteen :-)

I heard Malmsteen say that a scalloped guitar really does wonders to vibrato, but it´s more difficult to play. I wonder if he practiced some arpeggios and neo-classical rock on it. Maybe some early Blackmore stuff as well. Either way, this is a great topic, and i absolutely love the Red Special. Probably the most valuable guitar in the world.[/QUOTE]

Sorry not sure what happened there.

The scalloped guitar was taken on tour but I don't believe it was used in front of an audience. It featured a misty dark purple finish which looks grey in certain light.

A scalloped neck frees up the strings as the make no contact with the wood and so help vibrato/string bending. They require a very soft touch as to much pressure on the string forces it down behind the fret thus make the note sound sharp or flat. The limited amount of contact required to play a scalloped neck helps fast playing. Billy Sheehan uses a scalloped Bass.

On the subject of BM's guitars he also has a twin neck 12/6 RS built by Guyton, and a black maple semi twin pickup Guyton with no trem.

A second guitar that BM designed in the early 60's but never built at the time was built by Guyton following BMs plans. The guitar Has two trisonic pickups and. RS type trem and a maple RS shape neck. The body is a solid spade shape finished in Ferrari red.

[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]

Sorry not sure what happened there.

The scalloped guitar was taken on tour but I don't believe it was used in front of an audience. It featured a misty dark purple finish which looks grey in certain light.

A scalloped neck frees up the strings as the make no contact with the wood and so help vibrato/string bending. They require a very soft touch as to much pressure on the string forces it down behind the fret thus make the note sound sharp or flat. The limited amount of contact required to play a scalloped neck helps fast playing. Billy Sheehan uses a scalloped Bass.[/QUOTE]

Billy Sheehan is a monumental bass player. I´ve seen him play live with Steve Vai, but i wasn´t aware of the scalloped neck on this bass. I´ve never tried a scalloped neck myself, so i really don´t know first hand how it feels.

[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]

On the subject of BM's guitars he also has a twin neck 12/6 RS built by Guyton, and a black maple semi twin pickup Guyton with no trem. [/QUOTE]

I´m assuming that the twin neck is the one debuted at the Q+AL gigs last year. That´s a beautiful guitar.

[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]

A second guitar that BM designed in the early 60's but never built at the time was built by Guyton following BMs plans. The guitar Has two trisonic pickups and. RS type trem and a maple RS shape neck. The body is a solid spade shape finished in Ferrari red. [/QUOTE]

Fascinating stuff here. Now that you mention all these things, some stuff comes to mind because of reading his soapbox over the years.
It´s great to have guitar experts like you and all the others on this topic contributing great information. I never really focused on the electronic aspect of guitars, but i find it fascinating to listen to what people who understand those aspects of music have to say about it.

Having now spent a few days playing the Super, I can say that I am very comfortable with the fat neck. Tone wise i have done a lot of A/B comparisons with the standard 'Special' and it really is very close in tone.

I have a fairly early 'Special' No 80 of the original Burns version. The construction is a little off in places but tone wise it's so close to the Super. the major difference is the level of out put from the hand wound pick ups and the range in available tones from the Vol and Tone knobs.

You are mainly paying for the closer 'look' and build quality. Just like my Standard Strat and my Custom shop one the differences are small when it comes to playability, as with all things musical wise you pay a lot more for a little improvement.

Having said that it's the best £3k I have ever spent! I see also that RS Customs are now producing Brian May guitars in the US, this appears to be a different company to the old RS Guitars that used to before Brian asked them not to. Anyway they are producing a version at $7,500 I think. Why would you spend that much on a none endorsed guitar when you can spend £3k on an endorsed version with full spec taken from the original. and the whole Brian team together with Mr Fryer contributing.

There also appears to be an Italian maker producing models which look fairly close, I saw a relic'd version but the relic wasn't done particularly convincingly, not sure what the price is of these.

If i had the money I'd get Guyton to make one, (also endorsed (kind of) but they are around £8k and there is an 18 month wait...

"Having said that it's the best £3k I have ever spent! I see also that RS Customs are now producing Brian May guitars in the US, this appears to be a different company to the old RS Guitars that used to before Brian asked them not to. Anyway they are producing a version at $7,500 I think. Why would you spend that much on a none endorsed guitar when you can spend £3k on an endorsed version with full spec taken from the original. and the whole Brian team together with Mr Fryer contributing. "

Hate to tell you but it's not full spec like the original!
The RS customs guitar and the one you bought are totally different. RS customs(totally different company from the older RS Guitars company) is replicating all the original RS components. Not saying your guitar is not great, but there are some major differences from the original and yours. That's why the big price difference!
Some major differences for example: bolt on neck, laquered neck, blockboard body with oak insert and veneer, bridge, etc....these are major differences which is why the RS customs supreme model costs more than yours They have a model which the specs are like the new super model that's a lot less. Have you seen the guyton rs price that replicates the original? But the way, i don't have anything to do RS customs, just wanted to let you know the facts. Again, your guitar is great for the price, beautiful and I bet sounds awesome.

Mr. Togg, would you care to comment on intonation and (absence of) string pull? I have the standard Burns copy and if I hit the lower strings with any force at all, they'll go frighteningly sharp. I love the sound and the feel of the guitar, but the string pull takes out a lot of the fun in playing it.

It should be noted that RS custom guitars, before they had gone into production were claiming that their RS would be the most accurate and well made option.

It's a claim that has been made since then too

Their top of the range guitar, there fore is aimed at the same market as the Guyton and is of similar construction.
It should be remembered however that the Guyton guitar was built using BM's original plans and also the Red Special in effect became a prototype and was measured and even x rayed in order to get the Guyton as close as is possible to be, and with BM's input too

Rs custom guitars did not have the same research or first hand input, and indeed when compared to a Guyton the differences do show them selves.

There was also the case, a few years ago, where the finger board of an RS custom separated from the neck near the body joint, the repair that they did at the time didn't reflect the quality that they claimed to their guitars to have.

Of the none official RS replacers the KZ pro was easily the best in teems of playability and build quality.

[QUOTE]

[b]Fireplace wrote: [/b] Mr. Togg, would you care to comment on intonation and (absence of) string pull? I have the standard Burns copy and if I hit the lower strings with any force at all, they'll go frighteningly sharp. I love the sound and the feel of the guitar, but the string pull takes out a lot of the fun in playing it.[/QUOTE]

At first the guitar was slipping out of tune pretty well every time I played it, particularly when the Trem was used a lot, The Trem is very sensitive only light pressure from your finger will make it move.

Now the strings have settled in I have found it has stayed in tune all day with only one tuning first thing, as you would imagine it has had pretty heavy use in the past week...

Intonation wise it seems fine, my Burns is slightly off, there is an ever so slight slant to the frets down the fret board and so I am not 100% confident that it has perfect intonation even when set up well. However i have found it stays in tune pretty well considering.

The Super's strings are under far less pressure in terms of angles than say a strat, so I suspect it will stay in tune much better.

On a side note I also changed my AC30's Green speakers to Blues and went to Watford valves to get some replacement valves that had been properly tested.

Again it took about 20 hours of playing before the new speakers settled in, now I am really pleased with the result, the Amp is much warmer and so so close to the Brian tone.

[QUOTE]

[b]RS_Protos wrote: [/b] "Having said that it's the best £3k I have ever spent! I see also that RS Customs are now producing Brian May guitars in the US, this appears to be a different company to the old RS Guitars that used to before Brian asked them not to. Anyway they are producing a version at $7,500 I think. Why would you spend that much on a none endorsed guitar when you can spend £3k on an endorsed version with full spec taken from the original. and the whole Brian team together with Mr Fryer contributing. "

Hate to tell you but it's not full spec like the original!
The RS customs guitar and the one you bought are totally different. RS customs(totally different company from the older RS Guitars company) is replicating all the original RS components. Not saying your guitar is not great, but there are some major differences from the original and yours. That's why the big price difference!
Some major differences for example: bolt on neck, laquered neck, blockboard body with oak insert and veneer, bridge, etc....these are major differences which is why the RS customs supreme model costs more than yours They have a model which the specs are like the new super model that's a lot less. Have you seen the guyton rs price that replicates the original? But the way, i don't have anything to do RS customs, just wanted to let you know the facts. Again, your guitar is great for the price, beautiful and I bet sounds awesome.

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I think you're right in terms of build here, both RS customs and Guyton and designed to be very low run models so they dont have to produce high numbers of instruments. However of the two I would go for Guyton every time. But yes in terms of build I am sure that it's very close indeed. I am very much aware of the amendments made to the 'Super' such as a glued neck ect, but that's what you get if you need to make a guitar that will be produced in reasonably high numbers. If I could afford it I would go for a Guyton.

Whilst I saw that RS Customs have copies of the original plans sent to them by John Page at Fender after he started working on a Brian model that never saw the light of day, they have not had the opportunity to compare the original guitar next to theirs. Greg Fryer spent months working on the original and then was heavily involved in getting the correct tones for the high street 'special' and more recently the 'Super'.

In the case of the Super, he spent a lot of time working on the prototypes, alongside of course Brian... So if Brian is happy to play the 'Super' alongside his own and the Fryers and Guytons I suspect it's right up there in terms of tone.

Also Jamie plays a 'Super' when backing Brian, his has an extra volume knob nearer the position of a strats .

I would love to see and play an RS Customs in person, but there is no substitution for having Fryer, Guyton and of course May working on the prototypes of the guitar, it you want to get the tone right. If you listen to the Cosmos tour, when Brian plays the 'Super' if you shut your eyes you can't tell it from the original.

Also pretty sure Brian would not be amused that RS have 'his' plans, technically they were not Mr Pages to give away. Brian told the first RS business they were in effect ripping him off by producing his design without permission...They then stopped production.

Barry indicated that Brian had similar feelings about the other manufacturers out there making his design without permission. Much as Steve Jobs protected the designs Apple produce as others try to copy them, I would imagine if he had the time Brian would do the same with his design.
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