Roger's input during the 1991 sessions

It would be interesting to know why he/they chose to replace real drums with programmed? Obviously some tracks benefit from the feel of programmed drums but others could have gone either way perfectly well, Headlong for instance

I read from Sound On Sound interview with David Richards (1989) that the programming was mainly done on the songs where there was a synth bass line or lots of computer programmed keyboards. It was impossible to sync live drums (if without a click-track) with programmed keys. So that's why Breakthru and Invisible Man are definitely drum machine.

I can't Live With You is actually drum machine, but on that song you can hear that it doesn't work. That's why they did that re-take in 1997 with live drums.

Its of course very natural that during the 1980's things changed within the band and also with the recording processes. Not all of them were at the studio and the songs were not actually rehearsed 4 weeks prior going to studio with the whole band (as was the case during 1970's) But there are still some songs which truly have Queen playing as a band. "I want It all" is one of them. It was actually finished before Miracle recording started so it was done like they used to do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9dWFpuBBTY
Later on they added sample on bass drum and snare drum and the keys of course. But otherwise this is the core of the song. David Richards did edit some sequences out however and comped some parts to make it shorter.

The story of band playing Innuendo in the large Casino hall at Montreux is also one example of the "good old-days".

But otherwise it seems that the times changed. Allthough they credited everything to "Queen" and said that they were closer than ever during that period, it seems that they really didn't do that much as a BAND anymore. Nothing like the composing of One Vision documentary shows us.

[QUOTE] [b]ploughman wrote:[/b]

"I want It all" is one of them. It was actually finished before Miracle recording started so it was done like they used to do.[/QUOTE]

No it wasn't. It was *written* before the sessions began, but it was *recorded* during 'The Miracle' sessions. Not necessarily with a live backing track.

[QUOTE] [b]ploughman wrote:[/b]

The story of band playing Innuendo in the large Casino hall at Montreux is also one example of the "good old-days".[/QUOTE]

That's how they *wrote* it, but when they *recorded* it they most likely used a metronome. Sometimes they tracked without a click (e.g., 'Was It All Worth It'), sometimes with it, and I suspect 'Innuendo' belongs to the latter group.

[QUOTE] [b]ploughman wrote:[/b]

Nothing like the composing of One Vision documentary shows us.[/QUOTE]

And then again, John didn't actually write anything for that song, and Freddie wasn't present while the music was being composed.

Well, are all spectulations, I think.
All Good's people began for the second solo FM album, but Barcelona cancelled that. And later, were into Queen. Words of Mike Moran.
Nobody knows, except them, what happens.

[QUOTE] [b]Apocalipsis_Darko wrote:[/b]

Well, are all spectulations, I think.
All Good's people began for the second solo FM album, but Barcelona cancelled that. And later, were into Queen. Words of Mike Moran.
Nobody knows, except them, what happens.


[/QUOTE]

Eye witnesses are always less reliable than physical evidence. MFK is on Queen, not Queen II, despite BHM claiming otherwise. So sometimes, it's not 'nobody knows, except them', as much as 'loads of people know, including them.'

Well, Sebastian, if you have the proff, I would love to read it ;)

Proof of what exactly?

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]Indeed. Freddie himself wrote two as well (one and two halves), which is just as much as what his bandmates did combined.

Of course, there's the possibility of other tracks written but not used.[/QUOTE]
I know that I'm repeating myself but to me this just doesn't make sense. I mean they didn't know long Freddie had time and how long he would record, so they could have written songs all the way up till October, and if Freddie really asked the others to write more songs when they finished Innuendo, now that's 10 months. The three of them could have written over 50 songs in that time frame if that truly was Freddie's last request as we've been told and he was going to work until the end.

It wouldn't have been a matter of disqualifying a song because it wasn't good enough, because from Freddie's point of view, I don't think he thought "well if I sing lots of songs now my pals are going to make a lot of money from me when I'm gone"... - more likely his idea would have been that by continuing to work he could keep his mind off from the inevitably coming death. So in that sense he would have sung anything and they wouldn't have been cutting out songs from a posthumous album.

I guess I'm saying that Freddie's "request" to the others and the drama of working until the end has been heavily exaggerated and the few songs they did came about rather spontaneously. I think Freddie, Brian and John spent a couple of days or weeks in Montreux in May 91 and Roger wasn't present at all. Freddie had written A Winter's Tale which they worked on (the reason for them being there) and Freddie and John came up with You Don't Fool Me right there and then; it was little more than an improvisation, some synth lines and the bare lyrics that there are. While Freddie and Brian wrote Mother Love which turned out to be his last.

I doubt that Freddie had any other sessions in the whole of 1991: these 2 and a half songs - of which none was finished - didn't need more than a couple of days and we are not aware of him singing any other songs during the whole year.

No need to blame him/them of course, but probably Freddie worked on new material only about a week in May 1991 and never really even asked the others to provide new songs in an attempt to make a final album...

mistake

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

...and if Freddie really asked the others to write more songs[/QUOTE]

Judging by the manuscript, Freddie wrote the first verse of 'Mother Love' and some few other lines here and there, even getting as far as to starting another verse which wasn't used. It seems like Brian took over from there and wrote the rest (two more verses plus most of the middle-eight), so maybe when Freddie pleaded 'write me anything and I'll sing it', it meant that he was asking Brian to feed him more lines to make 'Mother Love' a more complete song. Of course, some wishful fans took the 'write me anything' quote as a reason to believe Freddie was asking the others to write him full songs, and once QPL saw that as an opportunity to make the legend grow they went on board with it.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

The three of them could have written over 50 songs in that time frame if that truly was Freddie's last request as we've been told and he was going to work until the end.
[/QUOTE]

Keyword: if. Indeed, good point. Let's compare:

* Freddie didn't think he'd live to see 'Innuendo' being released. Soon as it was, he returned to the studios with the idea of yet another album, but noticed this time he wouldn't manage, so he called it a day, left only three unfinished songs and gave his bandmates and David his blessing to finish them off after his death.

* Queen fans were the only thing that mattered to Freddie. He loved them so much that he wanted to give them as much music as possible, so he asked Brian, John and Roger to write songs for him and kept singing until he was circling the drain for realsies. 'Winter's Tale' and 'Mother Love' were virtually sung from his deathbed, and his very last wish was that they'd release those tracks, otherwise his life, and his death, would've been in vain.

The first version is more truthful, but the second one is more spectacular, dramatic and more likely to generate a bigger impact and more sales. Which one would they use?

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

I guess I'm saying that Freddie's "request" to the others and the drama of working until the end has been heavily exaggerated and the few songs they did came about rather spontaneously.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

I think Freddie, Brian and John spent a couple of days or weeks in Montreux in May 91[/QUOTE]

AFAIK, there were also sessions in January. Those sessions could've produced 'You Don't Fool Me' (the few bits recorded back then), 'Lost Opportunity' and perhaps a working version of 'A Winter's Tale'.

The May ones were for finishing off 'A Winter's Tale' and doing 'Mother Love'.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

and Roger wasn't present at all.[/QUOTE]

He probably was in January, as he played drums on 'Lost Opportunity'. I agree he probably missed the May one. Rufus had been born in March, so perhaps Roger didn't feel like travelling to Switzerland and leaving his new partner alone with the baby (well... he didn't have any problem in touring when Felix was a month old, but things had probably changed over the course of a decade).

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

No need to blame him/them of course, but probably Freddie worked on new material only about a week in May 1991 and never really even asked the others to provide new songs in an attempt to make a final album...[/QUOTE]

Well, more than a week I think, but yeah, definitely not months and months as they claim ... there's no place for truth in showbiz.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]AFAIK, there were also sessions in January. Those sessions could've produced 'You Don't Fool Me' (the few bits recorded back then), 'Lost Opportunity' and perhaps a working version of 'A Winter's Tale'.

The May ones were for finishing off 'A Winter's Tale' and doing 'Mother Love'.[/QUOTE]
I suppose you're right. It's reasonable that Freddie wrote A Winter's Tale in late 1990 or very early 91 and he wanted to record it as he was excited about his new song, justifiably, and that's why they went into the studio in January and then You Don't Fool Me and Mother Love were born from that. So basically one song turned into three but there was never intention to make a whole album -- if there was there would have definitely been more songs written. (Lost Opportunity is kind of irrelevant since it doesn't involve Freddie in any way as far as I know.)

As for their lying, I wouldn't say that they deliberately set out to tell lies or build myths (not yet at least)... but they did promo for MIH four years after Freddie died and they must have remembered him as a trooper who worked as far as he could (even if that didn't really mean singing from his deathbed), and he did anyway work longer than was expected, doing basically Innuendo on borrowed time, three music videos in 91 and a few new songs. So they just exaggerated somewhat.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

So basically one song turned into three but there was never intention to make a whole album[/QUOTE]

According to contemporary reports by the OIQFC mag, their intention was to record B-Sides for the singles, but then they decided to save them for a future album. So, IMO, there *was* thought of a post-Innuendo album, but then they cancelled those plans when they realised Freddie wouldn't be able to manage this time (he lived enough to release 'Barcelona', 'Miracle' and 'Innuendo' but this one was one too many), so they returned to just leaving those tracks there, and then maybe (according to 1992 and 1993 reports) issuing them as a single or an EP once they were finished. Then they got more ambitious and decided to compile a full-length album, and we all know the rest.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

if there was there would have definitely been more songs written.[/QUOTE]

Not if they changed their minds, which they probably did, and that's why only four songs were recorded after 'Innuendo', and one of them was still issued as B-Side.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

Lost Opportunity is kind of irrelevant since it doesn't involve Freddie in any way as far as I know.[/QUOTE]

Well, he (and his estate later on) got 25% of the publishing, as it was credited to Queen (and most likely registered all four as authors as per their previous agreement). He may have played the synth although that's quite unlikely. So maybe that's why they did release that one in '91: they wouldn't need it for the posthumous album.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

As for their lying, I wouldn't say that they deliberately set out to tell lies or build myths (not yet at least)... but they did promo for MIH four years after Freddie died and they must have remembered him as a trooper who worked as far as he could [/QUOTE]

So they didn't lie but they didn't tell the truth ... not a surprise, they both cheated on their wives, so they had a well-trained skill in exact words, false reassurance, half-truths and convenient mixed messages.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

three music videos in 91[/QUOTE]

TBF, he only filmed two. 'Headlong' was released in '91 but shot in '90.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

So they just exaggerated somewhat.[/QUOTE]

There's a nice quote from The Simpsons: 'A rabbi would never exaggerate! A rabbi composes; he creates thoughts, he tells stories that may never have happened, but he does not exaggerate!' Coincidentally enough, Google's just confirmed me the episode in question was aired exactly one month before Freddie died... and to add more useless Simpsons trivia, the last episode premiered during Freddie's lifetime was the one featuring Aerosmith.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

So basically one song turned into three but there was never intention to make a whole album[/QUOTE]

According to contemporary reports by the OIQFC mag, their intention was to record B-Sides for the singles, but then they decided to save them for a future album. So, IMO, there *was* thought of a post-Innuendo album, but then they cancelled those plans when they realised Freddie wouldn't be able to manage this time (he lived enough to release 'Barcelona', 'Miracle' and 'Innuendo' but this one was one too many), so they returned to just leaving those tracks there, and then maybe (according to 1992 and 1993 reports) issuing them as a single or an EP once they were finished. Then they got more ambitious and decided to compile a full-length album, and we all know the rest.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

if there was there would have definitely been more songs written.[/QUOTE]

Not if they changed their minds, which they probably did, and that's why only four songs were recorded after 'Innuendo', and one of them was still issued as B-Side.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

Lost Opportunity is kind of irrelevant since it doesn't involve Freddie in any way as far as I know.[/QUOTE]

Well, he (and his estate later on) got 25% of the publishing, as it was credited to Queen (and most likely registered all four as authors as per their previous agreement). He may have played the synth although that's quite unlikely. So maybe that's why they did release that one in '91: they wouldn't need it for the posthumous album.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

As for their lying, I wouldn't say that they deliberately set out to tell lies or build myths (not yet at least)... but they did promo for MIH four years after Freddie died and they must have remembered him as a trooper who worked as far as he could [/QUOTE]

So they didn't lie but they didn't tell the truth ... not a surprise, they both cheated on their wives, so they had a well-trained skill in exact words, false reassurance, half-truths and convenient mixed messages.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

three music videos in 91[/QUOTE]

TBF, he only filmed two. 'Headlong' was released in '91 but shot in '90.

[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]

So they just exaggerated somewhat.[/QUOTE]

There's a nice quote from The Simpsons: 'A rabbi would never exaggerate! A rabbi composes; he creates thoughts, he tells stories that may never have happened, but he does not exaggerate!' Coincidentally enough, Google's just confirmed me the episode in question was aired exactly one month before Freddie died... and to add more useless Simpsons trivia, the last episode premiered during Freddie's lifetime was the one featuring Aerosmith.[/QUOTE]

Great conversation, I enjoyed the read and perspectives. Gives a lot to think about. All possibly happened. Also, could have TRIED the "give me anything" route and turned up with garbage. These subjective suggestions seem more plausible



Btw. You mean the "FLAMING HOMER (MOE)" episode? ... I remember that like yesterday.

Good God, I'm getting old.

No wonder Maylor keep at it. Its a sense of position and value beyond "living" and mortality

From the OIQFC mag:

* Spring 1991: 'The band all went to Mountain Studios in Montreux in the second week of January. The idea was to work on some b-side tracks, but they loved the tracks they were working on so much that some of them will be saved and included on their NEXT album!'

* Summer 1991 (a letter Brian wrote on 6th June): 'Freddie, John, Roger and I are back in Montreux soon, and *the* next Queen album is well on the way!!'

* Summer 1991 (Information Page): 'The band have recently come back from a brief sojourn in peaceful Montreux, where they were working on some material for possible inclusion on their NEXT album! The work has only just begun, and they have no firm commitments to go back into studios this year, so we will not see a finished product until well into 1992. They are working again with David Richards.'

* Autumn 1991 (letter Roger wrote in October): 'Aside from 4 new Queen tracks recorded earlier in Montreux there is Queen Greatest Hits II coming out this month (Oct).'

* Autumn 1991 (Info Page): 'The band have done no more work as yet on their new material, it's not likely we will see anything at all from that until sometime in 1992.'

* Summer 1992 (Info Page): 'As I mentioned last time there will be another Queen album sometime in 1992.'

* Autumn 1992 (Info Page): 'I'm afraid that I made a bit of a cock-up in the last issue and made you all hopeful in vain! The proposed NEXT Queen album is NOT being released at the end of 1992, it will be much later.'

* Autumn 1992 (a letter Rog wrote on 24th November): 'We hope to finish the last Queen studio LP (with Freddie's voice) at the end of '93, working together again.'

Nothing to add, just a comment; I wonder why they don't consult you guys for archival stuff/musings/booklets when it's so obvious that the fan ship is so strong here You guys can itemize sources within a day or two.

Maybe it's because consultations would suggest pay. .. I don't know. But bravo one again.