This is a good introduction to the debate.
Personally I am against imperialistic extremism, but hey ho...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/07/scot-vote-yes-independence-scotland
John S Stuart
Thread
Posts in chronological order
noorie
Completely off-topic, shouldn't your pic show Dracula instead of DV? I just love the quote!
thomasquinn 32989
From what I've gathered so far, the Scots kind of want to have their cake and eat it too: I hear that if they become independent, they still want the UK to be responsible for all coastguard duties (and I believe Scotland has quite a bit of coastline) and such. That's not really very realistic. Still, I cannot blame anyone who wants to become independent from a nation that has David Cameron as PM.
brENsKi
CaMORON and OsBERK are behaving like playground bullies - i hope they get a good shoeing over all of this.
Fact: Scotland have EVERY right to a free vote on this.
Fact: Scotland has all the north-sea fuel reserves - and the Tories (much like TWATcher all those years ago over the falklands) - seem hell bent on waging a war of some kind - to prevent anyone else becoming wealthy over what's in the sea bed.
Fact: Successive Tory govts allowed the British manufacturing/industrial base to be withered away - and the north sea is really all that's left
Don't worry Scotland, vote with your hearts - because WHATEVER threats these fuckers issue will be pointless - as come 2015, they'll be booted out of power and so will be unable to act on them.
Fact: Scotland have EVERY right to a free vote on this.
Fact: Scotland has all the north-sea fuel reserves - and the Tories (much like TWATcher all those years ago over the falklands) - seem hell bent on waging a war of some kind - to prevent anyone else becoming wealthy over what's in the sea bed.
Fact: Successive Tory govts allowed the British manufacturing/industrial base to be withered away - and the north sea is really all that's left
Don't worry Scotland, vote with your hearts - because WHATEVER threats these fuckers issue will be pointless - as come 2015, they'll be booted out of power and so will be unable to act on them.
tcc
My scattered thoughts on this:
Whatever the Scots can save on maintaining the Queen will have to be spent on maintaining a new Head of State.
Whatever the Scots can save by not giving their north sea fuel reserves to Britain will have to be spent on setting up a Foreign Office with an embassy or a high commission office in every country in the world.
The rest of the world will be inconvenienced as well because they have to set up an embassy or a high commission office in Scotland. The business entities in and outside Scotland will have to redo their business links with each other.
All in all, it will be so troublesome for a lot of people, so please don't split. :-)
Whatever the Scots can save on maintaining the Queen will have to be spent on maintaining a new Head of State.
Whatever the Scots can save by not giving their north sea fuel reserves to Britain will have to be spent on setting up a Foreign Office with an embassy or a high commission office in every country in the world.
The rest of the world will be inconvenienced as well because they have to set up an embassy or a high commission office in Scotland. The business entities in and outside Scotland will have to redo their business links with each other.
All in all, it will be so troublesome for a lot of people, so please don't split. :-)
The Real Wizard
^ so no new countries should ever form for that reason?
Dozens of new countries have emerged in the last 25 years (34, to be exact), and they're gonna keep coming in one way or another ! :)
Dozens of new countries have emerged in the last 25 years (34, to be exact), and they're gonna keep coming in one way or another ! :)
Thistle
^ @ Brenski and Bob - EXACTLY!!
The point is that everything Scotland oppose, Westminster imposes. Scotland is governed by a group that 90% of Scottish voters voted AGAINST. That staggering fact alone is enough to make me realise what's required....
The point is that everything Scotland oppose, Westminster imposes. Scotland is governed by a group that 90% of Scottish voters voted AGAINST. That staggering fact alone is enough to make me realise what's required....
Jam Monkey
[QUOTE]
[b]Walter White wrote: [/b] ^ @ Brenski and Bob - EXACTLY!!
The point is that everything Scotland oppose, Westminster imposes. Scotland is governed by a group that 90% of Scottish voters voted AGAINST. That staggering fact alone is enough to make me realise what's required....[/QUOTE]
If you are going to use a statistic then make sure it's correct. At the 2010 General Election 18.9% of the Scottish electorate voted Lib Dem and 16.7% voted Conservative. Therefore 64.4% of Scottish voters voted against the current collation government.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
[b]Walter White wrote: [/b] ^ @ Brenski and Bob - EXACTLY!!
The point is that everything Scotland oppose, Westminster imposes. Scotland is governed by a group that 90% of Scottish voters voted AGAINST. That staggering fact alone is enough to make me realise what's required....[/QUOTE]
If you are going to use a statistic then make sure it's correct. At the 2010 General Election 18.9% of the Scottish electorate voted Lib Dem and 16.7% voted Conservative. Therefore 64.4% of Scottish voters voted against the current collation government.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
mooghead
I am a Scot. All my family are. If you think with your head and not your heart then leaving the UK would be suicide. Think with your heart all you like but it does not mean you will be walking around the streets with face paint on shouting 'you cannot take my freedom'. It just means you will be a lot weaker.
Let's just keep an eye on all the large businesses in the next few weeks/months that confess their departure if Scotland go Independent...
Let's just keep an eye on all the large businesses in the next few weeks/months that confess their departure if Scotland go Independent...
brENsKi
somehow, i don't think the oil companies can "relocate" from their current drilling sites.... that argument is (ahem) dead in the water.
also, most of what has been postured so far is westminster threat and rhetoric...think about it cameron and co are actually powerless.
An independent Scottish govt newly-flush with oil revenue can offer trade and corp tax deals to any "new businesses" on the back of the oil revenue.
In fact, they could even reduce the current preposterously high duty on petrol/diesel and still make more than enough income-wise to sustain their own economy and the wealth of their 5 million citizens.
if anything, it's england/wales that stand to lose the most...cameron and osborne know it...hence the empty threats.
also, most of what has been postured so far is westminster threat and rhetoric...think about it cameron and co are actually powerless.
An independent Scottish govt newly-flush with oil revenue can offer trade and corp tax deals to any "new businesses" on the back of the oil revenue.
In fact, they could even reduce the current preposterously high duty on petrol/diesel and still make more than enough income-wise to sustain their own economy and the wealth of their 5 million citizens.
if anything, it's england/wales that stand to lose the most...cameron and osborne know it...hence the empty threats.
Thistle
Craig, it was a typo - I didn't even realise it until I seen your comment today. The figure was meant to be 70%, not 90%. You've done a bit of research and came up with the very accurate 64.4% to show I'm a little out, but the point is still the same.
I do not think I'm entitled to "my own statistics", so put that in yer pipe and smoke it :)
I do not think I'm entitled to "my own statistics", so put that in yer pipe and smoke it :)
Holly2003
Independence for Scotland! And then an immediate British military invasion and occupation because we need to protect the vital flow of err.. battered Mars Bars, Irn Bru, shortcake, Old Firm bullshit, 2nd rate comedians and 3rd rate bands! On second thoughts, never mind. Bye!
brENsKi
you didn't include shortbread in quaint tins, kilts and caber tossers (ooer) :-)
mooghead
"2nd rate comedians" and "shortbread in quaint tins" - thats fighting talk....!
brENsKi
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
"2nd rate comedians" and "shortbread in quaint tins" - thats fighting talk....![/QUOTE]
shows if nothing else, that "Celts sticking together" is a myth :-)
although Mr Mooghead, you have to admit the shortbread tins are a bit "twee"
and Rab c nesbit is crap....
and as for the bands - fekkin jeezus!!!!!
(n the [b]saltire[/b] corner
Texas, Altered Images, Simple Minds, Aztec camera, Primal Scream, Bell + Sebastian, Deacon Blue, Runrig, Orange Juice, Zephyrs, Aneka, Bay City Rollers, Fairground Attraction, ....and Ultravox (hahaha)
at this moment in time I'd much prefer the
[b]green [/b]corner (incl Norther Ireland):
van morrison, skid row, hothouse flowers, saw doctors, thin lizzy, undertones, stiff little fingers, the answer, boomtown rats, chieftans, jj72, snow patrol, thrills, rory gallagher, them, wolftones, (arguably) waterboys and even U2
yes ok, there is the small issue of The Corrs, Bewitched and Dana - but none of those are as bad as St Andrew's list and before you ask - we've deported Jedward - to the lowest bidder.
"2nd rate comedians" and "shortbread in quaint tins" - thats fighting talk....![/QUOTE]
shows if nothing else, that "Celts sticking together" is a myth :-)
although Mr Mooghead, you have to admit the shortbread tins are a bit "twee"
and Rab c nesbit is crap....
and as for the bands - fekkin jeezus!!!!!
(n the [b]saltire[/b] corner
Texas, Altered Images, Simple Minds, Aztec camera, Primal Scream, Bell + Sebastian, Deacon Blue, Runrig, Orange Juice, Zephyrs, Aneka, Bay City Rollers, Fairground Attraction, ....and Ultravox (hahaha)
at this moment in time I'd much prefer the
[b]green [/b]corner (incl Norther Ireland):
van morrison, skid row, hothouse flowers, saw doctors, thin lizzy, undertones, stiff little fingers, the answer, boomtown rats, chieftans, jj72, snow patrol, thrills, rory gallagher, them, wolftones, (arguably) waterboys and even U2
yes ok, there is the small issue of The Corrs, Bewitched and Dana - but none of those are as bad as St Andrew's list and before you ask - we've deported Jedward - to the lowest bidder.