Queen Must Dodge The Fate of Hendrix and Bolan

gerry wrote: 1. Queen will never give you everything you want because the record company stopped them
the last time delux versions of the albums came out a few years back.
2. Jackie Gunn at the fan club promised us fans box sets years ago which never happened,
just more lies and to be honest Queen fans are treated badly by the record companies and the band.
3. When you see Beatles fans getting new product all the time or Marc Bolan having box sets released you say to yourself.
"Why do us Queen fans wait and wait and wait and when we do we just get reissues or something we know on cd.
4. Freddie said on his last radio one interview back in 1989, that there was loads of songs Queen had worked on
5. but just left by the way side, 5 years later in 1994 Brian denied all of this and said there was nothing left to use,
now he says they have just found new tracks to work on, yeah right!
6. A bit more respect to the fans please!

@Gerry - I've numbered your comments in an attempt to address each in turn.

1.new record company paid to sign queen - so will want a return on their investment BEFORE releasing anything new - that's basic business sense - so of course the back-catalogue gets re-issued - albeit there were a handful of interesting additions.

2. There may have been a genuine intent to release some box sets - but think about it - you know how it is in life - we're the same stuff we've intended to do for years - be it the garden fence, paint a spare room or clear out the garage or loft....and WE WILL  always be about to do them, but something more appealing/interesting or sparkly crops up and they gets shelved....a football match, a gig or just hanging out with friends/family - for BM/RT - the american idol/musical/kerry ellis/cosmos rocks etc were their "appealing/interesting or sparkly" things. That's life.

3. I've been an (almost) lifelong beatles fan since my dad kept playing strawberry fields/penny lane & she loves you to me from the age of 4 (you can work out my age quietly to yourself sssshh!) - and i can tell you that we "beatles fans are not getting new stuff all the time" - the anthologies were 1995 - 25 yrs after they split, the Love album (really nice) was three years ago. - There too have been plenty of reissues.

4. You need to dissect Freddie's quote to get at the facts - "worked on" could mean five minutes and shelved as not interesting enough or not workable, or three days and there's now a salvage-worthy track somewhere.

5. Brian can't even tell you what he did where/when - he forgets specific things that most would recall, what was recorded where/when and even details of some gigs....so he's probably not lying - just that he actually doesn't remember it. - and whatever some of us may think of the resident glorified librarian they have at QPL - at least the band are now aware of much more recorded work than they ever knew of before. - BTW - i have no axe to grind here or bias - I don't particularly like Brian.

6. It's hard to please everyone all the time - and lets face a few facts - weigh up 200 of us (geriatric fans who followed them thru the 70s) against 200 brand new young fans - it's a no brainer 
we will only buy stuff we've never heard before - those 200 new fans will maybe buy half or ALL of the back catalogue - that's got nothing to do with respect - it business.

brENsKi well put and well explained

Vocal harmony wrote: brENsKi well put and well explained

thanks - i tried my best

Okay Brenski, that is very clear and wel written. But, until 2011 te re-issues came on the market, the story on unreleased stuff or stuff in the so-called vault was for years the same. But with the Island re-issues some pretty "nice" gems popped up, unheard versions of Headlong, Invisible Man, Seven Seas of Rhye, to name a few . Some die hard fans may have knew that this was in the vaults, some collectors might have know this. For some it was a total suprise and a welcome addition to their collection. Those extra tracks, were these the tracks Brian could not remember that they were around? Is it a Greg Brooks found?

We all know, well some of us do, that Brian once stated that he did not want it all released due the fact it wasn't reworked, or good enough for any album, which could mean that this will never see the light.So in that case Brian thought that the hybrid version of Headlong was good enough to appear on the second disc?
I find it hard to believe that there isn't enough left wothwhile in the so-called vault which can't be released.
I could be wrong, but there must be laying tons of songs, oaky I'm way wrong by thinking it must be a ton of stuff, but there is stuff, collecting dust. The demo version of Stealin' is still unreleased. The Hot Space demo's are also floating around. I still have high hopes for a boxset, not the high hopes I had in 1995, but still enough hope.

Tom

Tom, I don't dispute what you're saying - it's a valid opinion, as are most offered in this thread (mine included i hope).  However,Brian has proven his own memory unreliable when asked stuff before by fans. Now whether that is 100% "poor memory"  or 100%  "selectively poor" none of us will ever know.

There are at least two indisputable facts in all of this: 
1. Due to fantology, studio thieves and various collectors a huge chunk of stuff has "leaked" down the years - look at the FM box set - a vast quantity of that was "out there" before the official release. 

2. The quality of the tracks already "in the wild" is questionable - sure, some complete songs like Feelings, Feelings and Dog with A Bone are fun - but not great songs, and many many others that we've heard are nothing more than embryonic - with verses/choruses "la la'd" along to in the absence of lyrics. These are not workable now in any sense other than the aforementioned "medley" idea.

The point here is, in all reality there's no new "Bo Rhap" "Somebody to Love" or "Seven Seas of Rhye" - Hell, if what we've heard (so far) is anything to go by (and that's ALL WE DO HAVE as a measure) then whatever there is that's workable or complete are probably no better than album fillers/curios.

You say you can't believe there's not enough in the vaults to be released? Can I leave you with one key consideration? Not trying to piss on your bonfire here, but honestly, what if there really isn't that much worth doing anything with? Perhaps there really isn't? 

or -

What if they don't want to work on it? perhaps they genuinely don't like most of it? perhaps they even hate it? let's face it,at the time of writing/recording it wasn't good enough to finish/release/work on.... then.why should it be now? if this is the case then all the begging, pleading and beseeching in the world won't change their minds. If you worked on something thirty years ago that you didn't like or lost interest in, and had no interest in going back to it now - would YOU bother?

Probably not

What if they don't want to work on it? perhaps they genuinely don't like most of it? perhaps they even hate it? let's face it,at the time of writing/recording it wasn't good enough to finish/release/work on.... then.why should it be now? if this is the case then all the begging, pleading and beseeching in the world won't change their minds. If you worked on something thirty years ago that you didn't like or lost interest in, and had no interest in going back to it now - would YOU bother?

Good point Brenski, but the is a flipside to that story, isn't there? Take for instance a band like Thunder, when they left EMI, they brought an album called, the rare, the raw and the rest. It is a complilation album with material which the band thought it wasn't good enough, suitable for their previous albums. The sleevenotes were very clear, it was rare, it was raw, and maybe not up to the Thunder standards as the fans think that it ought te be. But they stated that it was up to the fans what to do with the material. I thought it was a hell of a good idea, it gave me a good insight how the band worked en developed over the years. I know it is unfair to compare Queen releases - over the last decade - with other bands who did release unreleased material. But I find it so very interesting why other bands, groups, artist for that matter do release demo',s unfinished songs and Queen doesn't. What's the hold back? Call me naïve, but when the Islands re-issues hit the market, I thought this could be the forerunner for something special. But rest assure that I for one don't think that you piss on my bonfire, I can read where your thoughts are comming from. From time to time I have the very same thoughts, but the same goes for that i still have that amount of small hope that someday, maybe one day we have some kind of anthology set(s), maybe in a small way, maybe in a way we never thought that this form could happen.

Tom

"If you worked on something thirty years ago that you didn't like or lost interest in, and had no interest in going back to it now - would YOU bother?"

'God willing, we'll all meet again in Spaceballs 2 - The Search For More Money'.

brENsKi wrote:

Tom, I don't dispute what you're saying - it's a valid opinion, as are most offered in this thread (mine included i hope).  However,Brian has proven his own memory unreliable when asked stuff before by fans. Now whether that is 100% "poor memory"  or 100%  "selectively poor" none of us will ever know.

There are at least two indisputable facts in all of this: 
1. Due to fantology, studio thieves and various collectors a huge chunk of stuff has "leaked" down the years - look at the FM box set - a vast quantity of that was "out there" before the official release. 

2. The quality of the tracks already "in the wild" is questionable - sure, some complete songs like Feelings, Feelings and Dog with A Bone are fun - but not great songs, and many many others that we've heard are nothing more than embryonic - with verses/choruses "la la'd" along to in the absence of lyrics. These are not workable now in any sense other than the aforementioned "medley" idea.

The point here is, in all reality there's no new "Bo Rhap" "Somebody to Love" or "Seven Seas of Rhye" - Hell, if what we've heard (so far) is anything to go by (and that's ALL WE DO HAVE as a measure) then whatever there is that's workable or complete are probably no better than album fillers/curios.

You say you can't believe there's not enough in the vaults to be released? Can I leave you with one key consideration? Not trying to piss on your bonfire here, but honestly, what if there really isn't that much worth doing anything with? Perhaps there really isn't? 

or -

What if they don't want to work on it? perhaps they genuinely don't like most of it? perhaps they even hate it? let's face it,at the time of writing/recording it wasn't good enough to finish/release/work on.... then.why should it be now? if this is the case then all the begging, pleading and beseeching in the world won't change their minds. If you worked on something thirty years ago that you didn't like or lost interest in, and had no interest in going back to it now - would YOU bother?

hi brENsKi you said "What if they don't want to work on it? perhaps they genuinely don't like most of it? perhaps they even hate it? let's face it,at the time of writing/recording it wasn't good enough to finish/release/work on.... then.why should it be now"

valid thoughts and of course that might be the case.

But the other possibly is that they just didn't fit the projects of the time but they could still be quality work. TMLWKY wasn't deemed the right fit for The Miracle so they could conceivably have felt like that about other tracks IMO

agreed. but you've heard most of the demos already in the wild? yes?
and they're mainly cr*p. even the complete songs aren't much cop.

also - if any of the "stuff" referred to was any good - there must've been one project they'd have fitted into down the years...queen changed/evolved so much - so something good would've fitted somewhere

the old saying is that "the cream rises to the top" - by definition those demos must be dregs

the beatles got as much as possible into their anthologies - and one or two of the alternative takes weren't bad - but they weren't great either. fact is - unreleased material (various takes/demos) serves two purposes

1. curiosity - for fans to see the possible evolution of a song
2. satisfying the need of the completest fan.

none of these items appeal to the average music buyer - which is why queen would rather release another compilation or a re-released live album

That's all possible. But against all that you have the fact that most people loved Made In Heaven. So the question is whether Brian, (?John) and Roger will be able to work their magic once more and put out something that is worth the name Queen. I like to believe they wouldn't be doing it if they couldn't achieve that outcome, but the proof is in the pudding I guess.

Heavenite wrote:

That's all possible. But against all that you have the fact that most people loved Made In Heaven. So the question is whether Brian, (?John) and Roger will be able to work their magic once more and put out something that is worth the name Queen. I like to believe they wouldn't be doing it if they couldn't achieve that outcome, but the proof is in the pudding I guess.

I agree, I'd like to think that Brian wouldnt say the things he has if he didn't think there was something tangible at the end if it , and something that had the quality to stand under the Queen banner.