Making of "The Great Pretender" Video

[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]The LAST thing you want to do is essentially have them take it to the grave with them, and in turn you probably don't want to be known as THAT fan who probably forever fucked us over. (Trancert and Q+PR Worchester video, anyone?) [/QUOTE] Out of curiosity, what's the story behind that?

Trancert used a screencap from the 3-song Worchester sample DVD as the DVD for another Q+PR bootleg he was selling, and the taper was extremely pissed off about it when he found out and withdrew his intentions to release the whole video recording, which was very regrettable because it was probably the best audience shot video from the 2006 tour. A bunch of us tried to get him to change his stance since then, to no available, and he doesn't even answer PM's.

Should add, the video was shot in 1080i HD, but we only have the 3-song sample (FBG, Take Love & Dragon Attack) as a 480i DVD

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

Err... no. That's the trading model you have defended here i.e. rare material is traded privately until it is no longer valuable. Then because it's no longer of any trading value, it will end up here. Do you deny that? So you are criticising me for not following your trading model -- the model I've been saying is outdated and leads to hoarding? Seriously? That's your argument?

Anyway, I don't particularly want to make this personal. I'd rather talk about trading models (did I really just say that?) than about individuals. Clearly, in this thread and another recently, you have taken the hump over some perceived personal slight. So I'll just say this: I am indeed a smart guy. I have qualifications out the ying yang.Yet you seem to find everything I say about this subject to be objectionable. Maybe you should connect the dots there.

[/QUOTE]

I am just trying to "resolve" the "conflict" here. What bootleg of which Queen gig do you know that they have not shared, which makes you adopt this view ?

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]

I am just trying to "resolve" the "conflict" here. What bootleg of which Queen gig do you know that they have not shared, which makes you adopt this view ? [/QUOTE]

You don't need to know the traded material, the traders involved, or actually any details. All you need is to know what trading is all about:

It's all about the trading value of your material.

If you have rare material, you can exchange it for other rare material. When enough people have access to the same material, it becomes common, and has no trading value left. Only then it can be given away freely for those who aren't involved in the trading circles.

It's the same thing whether we're talking about Queen recordings, baseball cards, or diamonds.

It's only valuable as long as others don't have it.

[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]

I am just trying to "resolve" the "conflict" here. What bootleg of which Queen gig do you know that they have not shared, which makes you adopt this view ? [/QUOTE]

You don't need to know the traded material, the traders involved, or actually any details. All you need is to know what trading is all about:

It's all about the trading value of your material.

If you have rare material, you can exchange it for other rare material. When enough people have access to the same material, it becomes common, and has no trading value left. Only then it can be given away freely for those who aren't involved in the trading circles.

It's the same thing whether we're talking about Queen recordings, baseball cards, or diamonds.

It's only valuable as long as others don't have it.[/QUOTE]

I know what trading is about. However, I do not understand what is the agenda behind the constant picking on this trading practice.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

So you are criticising me for not following your trading model -- the model I've been saying is outdated and leads to hoarding? Seriously? That's your argument?
[/QUOTE]

And you accuse me of straw man arguments? Jesus. I'm criticizing you because you're whining about something and refuse to do something about it.

Obviously, things are shared publicly after they've been exhausted of their value. Then one is able to grab something else and the cycle restarts. I'm not sure why you're asking for clarification of something that has been explained countless times before.

If you have a new trading model, then fucking implement it and show us that it works.

Otherwise, shut the fuck up and enjoy the countless goodies that have ended up here due to the hard work of people who AREN'T YOU.

I'm not asking for clarification, I know exactly how your trading model works because you've explained it countless times before and I've argued here before that it is flawed. I have to wonder why you find that so threatening that you try to close down every conversation about it. Not very open minded of you. "Binary thinking" etc. I guess it's easy and painless on an internet forum to advocate moral standards for others and another thing entirely to put them into practice yourself.

What the hell are you talking about? If you say it's flawed, then for the third time, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING.

You're obviously incapable of realizing how much of an idiot you are. I'm not "closing down" the conversation. If you have a functioning brain, you should be able to see that I'm trying to propose a solution to a problem YOU have posed, and YOU are the one coming up with straw man after straw man instead of employing some kind of solution-oriented thinking. Just give it up. You're not convincing anyone that you somehow contribute to this place in a positive and meaningful way.

How many times does Holly2003 come up in the announce forum as a "topic starter" ?

That's right - zero.

So I'm smart and an idiot. Make up your mind...

Again, I didn't want to make this "personal" and only want to talk about "trading models". I'm not sure why you continually want to make it personal. I don't have to defend my contribution to the forum to you or anyone else: I don't base my values on popularity contests. But, since you insist, I have "done something about it" as I said earlier. Yonks ago, I put a list of everything I have on here and shared whatever anyone asked for, either in the sharing forum (a few) or outside Queenzone (more plentiful -- it was easier for me in the past to send cdrs than use a very slow internet connection). I'm not a trader (or a hoarder) and so don't have much that's of any interest to anyone. Most of what I have was collected in the late 1990s on cdrs. Things have moved on considerably and most now have these recordings already. I think the last one I shared on QZ was a Rotterdam concert to someone who asked for it in the request forum. And of course I also shared on QZ pictures from the 1984 Dublin concerts I attended. You now have those on your website. So basically I've shared everything I have that anyone wants.

So there you go. That's my "trading model" as you well know since we've discussed it before. Share everything you have. The current model is based on flawed capitalism and encourages hoarding (in some cases for decades) and lack of openness. It does not quickly release hidden stuff into general circulation as it is designed by traders for traders, and material is kept hidden until all trading value is exhausted.

There will, of course, be exceptions -- copyright etc. I accept all of that. But in general, a system that encourages openess and sharing is better than the current one in which trades take place among a select few, mostly out of public view. The current system is basically the one record companies use to ensure highest "profit" (for some) and to create false "supply and demand" wants and needs.

Of course I see what you're saying, and I wish that were the way it could work with everyone involved (thanks for your pics - I'm still happy to have them). But alas it isn't. And sometimes the process is drawn out. It can take years. Sometimes decades.

The reasons are plentiful and vary from person to person, case to case. Some people would rather die and have their tapes burn in the fire with them than have people hear them. Unless you come up with that one thing they want...

It's just the way it goes. If everyone employed your methods, then indeed we'd see quite a few more things here. But we're not in a utopia, and things can get complicated. Believe me, most collectors are doing everything they can to bring more to the Queen canon (and Zeppelin canon, and Genesis, Floyd, Zappa, etc). But there is no schedule and no algorithm. The magic simply comes when it comes. And the only sensible thing for those not actively on the search to do is patiently wait.

[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]

Should add, the video was shot in 1080i HD, but we only have the 3-song sample (FBG, Take Love & Dragon Attack) as a 480i DVD[/QUOTE]

I remember a list of concerts (that QP own in their archives) that Greg Brooks provided in QZ, and this audience recording was featured there. I´m just not sure if it was only these 3 songs or the full concert.

Well, you may never know, it might show up here sooner then you think :-)

[QUOTE] [b]tcc wrote:[/b]

I know what trading is about. However, I do not understand what is the agenda behind the constant picking on this trading practice.[/QUOTE]

The way I see it, the "agenda" is to discuss different opinions on a message board.

If there is a discussion about about some unreleased material seeing the light of day, it's only natural that the people who have access to this material become part of the the discussion.

If you are affiliated with the traders you might see that as picking on them, but if you aren't a trader, you will see it as nothing more than stating a fact.

[QUOTE] [b]dave76 wrote:[/b]

Well, you may never know, it might show up here sooner then you think :-)[/QUOTE]

I absolute love these snippets of this documentary. I never get tired of Queen and Freddie Mercury, so for me the possibility of adding this to my Queen colection is just wonderful.
I hope you are right about this :-)