GERRYISADICK
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae
Thread
Posts in chronological order
mooghead
Lol! I am actually getting to like you xx
GERRYISADICK
I like you too your avatar is great
The King Of Rhye
[QUOTE] [b]pittrek wrote:[/b]
What am I if I think (think does not equal believe) that this all was created by a higher intelligence, but I don't believe that somebody is still controlling it?[/QUOTE]
Sounds like deism.....
Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of the natural world in any way, allowing it to run according to the laws of nature.
(wikipedia)
What am I if I think (think does not equal believe) that this all was created by a higher intelligence, but I don't believe that somebody is still controlling it?[/QUOTE]
Sounds like deism.....
Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of the natural world in any way, allowing it to run according to the laws of nature.
(wikipedia)
thomasquinn 32989
[QUOTE] [b]pittrek wrote:[/b]
What am I if I think (think does not equal believe) that this all was created by a higher intelligence, but I don't believe that somebody is still controlling it?[/QUOTE]
That makes you a deist, similar to Jefferson. The concept is from the 18th century, and its perception of god is often referred to as "the divine clock-maker" who designed the universe and the laws of physics, set it in motion and then left it alone.
What am I if I think (think does not equal believe) that this all was created by a higher intelligence, but I don't believe that somebody is still controlling it?[/QUOTE]
That makes you a deist, similar to Jefferson. The concept is from the 18th century, and its perception of god is often referred to as "the divine clock-maker" who designed the universe and the laws of physics, set it in motion and then left it alone.
thomasquinn 32989
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
"Disbelief in a deity = believing a deity does not exist."
I disagree[/QUOTE]
You may disagree as much as you like, but that merely suggests you don't comprehend the meaning of the word "disbelief". Disbelief is not simply "a lack of belief", that's called unbelief or non-belief. Disbelief, from Merriam-Webster: "the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue".
"Disbelief in a deity = believing a deity does not exist."
I disagree[/QUOTE]
You may disagree as much as you like, but that merely suggests you don't comprehend the meaning of the word "disbelief". Disbelief is not simply "a lack of belief", that's called unbelief or non-belief. Disbelief, from Merriam-Webster: "the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue".
thomasquinn 32989
[QUOTE] [b]Jefffabiano wrote:[/b]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae [/QUOTE]
Thomas Aquinas' 'arguments' have been torn to shreds by philosophical criticism since the 18th century. The reason? They're not actually arguments at all, they're dogmas.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae [/QUOTE]
Thomas Aquinas' 'arguments' have been torn to shreds by philosophical criticism since the 18th century. The reason? They're not actually arguments at all, they're dogmas.
thomasquinn 32989
[QUOTE] [b]The King Of Rhye wrote:[/b]
I guess I could call myself a "strong agnostic" in that I don't think we CAN know.......which is kinda close to atheism I think............[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't. Strong agnosticism is a philosophical position, atheism a religious one: strong atheism does not exclude the possibility of the existence of a god, but states that we are unable to know whether this is so. Atheism rejects the possibility of a god altogether, making it a purely faith-based position as it rests on nothing further than the lack of evidence for the opposite position. To put it in the form of a parable, it is like the theory of the atom before the 20th century - it was impossible to objectively determine the existence of atoms, so the 'agnostic' camp held that the theory of the atom could neither be proven nor disproven, while the 'atheist' camps said that there was no evidence for atoms, so they didn't exist.
I guess I could call myself a "strong agnostic" in that I don't think we CAN know.......which is kinda close to atheism I think............[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't. Strong agnosticism is a philosophical position, atheism a religious one: strong atheism does not exclude the possibility of the existence of a god, but states that we are unable to know whether this is so. Atheism rejects the possibility of a god altogether, making it a purely faith-based position as it rests on nothing further than the lack of evidence for the opposite position. To put it in the form of a parable, it is like the theory of the atom before the 20th century - it was impossible to objectively determine the existence of atoms, so the 'agnostic' camp held that the theory of the atom could neither be proven nor disproven, while the 'atheist' camps said that there was no evidence for atoms, so they didn't exist.
mooghead
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
"Disbelief in a deity = believing a deity does not exist."
I disagree[/QUOTE]
You may disagree as much as you like, but that merely suggests you don't comprehend the meaning of the word "disbelief". Disbelief is not simply "a lack of belief", that's called unbelief or non-belief. Disbelief, from Merriam-Webster: "the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue".[/QUOTE]
For me to say I believe there is no god is in itself a belief system. I do not have a belief system because I am an atheist, an atheist who is more than happy to have his mind changed by anyone with anything that may make me change my mind.
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
"Disbelief in a deity = believing a deity does not exist."
I disagree[/QUOTE]
You may disagree as much as you like, but that merely suggests you don't comprehend the meaning of the word "disbelief". Disbelief is not simply "a lack of belief", that's called unbelief or non-belief. Disbelief, from Merriam-Webster: "the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue".[/QUOTE]
For me to say I believe there is no god is in itself a belief system. I do not have a belief system because I am an atheist, an atheist who is more than happy to have his mind changed by anyone with anything that may make me change my mind.
Donna13
Well ...
http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1333981/atheism.aspx
http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1333981/atheism.aspx
brENsKi
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b][QUOTE] [b]The King Of Rhye wrote:[/b]I guess I could call myself a "strong agnostic" in that I don't think we CAN know.......which is kinda close to atheism I think............[/QUOTE]No, it isn't. Strong agnosticism is a philosophical position, atheism a religious one: strong atheism does not exclude the possibility of the existence of a god, but states that we are unable to know whether this is so. Atheism rejects the possibility of a god altogether, making it a purely faith-based position as it rests on nothing further than the lack of evidence for the opposite position.
[/QUOTE]
think you've confused yourself there. Atheism is either one or the other - NOT both as you state
[/QUOTE]
think you've confused yourself there. Atheism is either one or the other - NOT both as you state
thomasquinn 32989
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
"Disbelief in a deity = believing a deity does not exist."
I disagree[/QUOTE]
You may disagree as much as you like, but that merely suggests you don't comprehend the meaning of the word "disbelief". Disbelief is not simply "a lack of belief", that's called unbelief or non-belief. Disbelief, from Merriam-Webster: "the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue".[/QUOTE]
For me to say I believe there is no god is in itself a belief system. I do not have a belief system because I am an atheist, an atheist who is more than happy to have his mind changed by anyone with anything that may make me change my mind.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly! Atheism is a belief system - a *negative* belief system in the sense that where a belief system is usually based around "we believe that ... ", atheism is based around "we believe that ... not", i.e. inverted religion (note that religion and church are related, but by no means interchangeable). That does not by any means detract from the inherent value of the atheistic belief system, it merely confirms that it is a set of views unlike religion but of the same nature, and not a level *above* religion as it is sometimes presumed to be.
Based on your stated views, I'd think that I would be inclined to say that you're an agnostic, but perhaps one who doesn't hold high expectations on the subject. You say that you would be happy to 'convert' if sufficient evidence of a reasonable nature is provided, whereas traditionally atheism does not believe such evidence could even possibly exist.
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]
"Disbelief in a deity = believing a deity does not exist."
I disagree[/QUOTE]
You may disagree as much as you like, but that merely suggests you don't comprehend the meaning of the word "disbelief". Disbelief is not simply "a lack of belief", that's called unbelief or non-belief. Disbelief, from Merriam-Webster: "the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue".[/QUOTE]
For me to say I believe there is no god is in itself a belief system. I do not have a belief system because I am an atheist, an atheist who is more than happy to have his mind changed by anyone with anything that may make me change my mind.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly! Atheism is a belief system - a *negative* belief system in the sense that where a belief system is usually based around "we believe that ... ", atheism is based around "we believe that ... not", i.e. inverted religion (note that religion and church are related, but by no means interchangeable). That does not by any means detract from the inherent value of the atheistic belief system, it merely confirms that it is a set of views unlike religion but of the same nature, and not a level *above* religion as it is sometimes presumed to be.
Based on your stated views, I'd think that I would be inclined to say that you're an agnostic, but perhaps one who doesn't hold high expectations on the subject. You say that you would be happy to 'convert' if sufficient evidence of a reasonable nature is provided, whereas traditionally atheism does not believe such evidence could even possibly exist.
Holly2003
“You know when your dog is having a bad dream? That's who I pray to.” – Moe Szyslak.
The King Of Rhye
I guess what I mean when I say my beliefs are close to atheism is that because I believe that the question of if there is a god or any such thing is unanswerable, I live my life as if there is not.......
That article about "ignosticism" I posted a link to earlier made a lot of sense to me........basically the description was that ignosticism says that........(.gonna quote again here cus this says it better than I can at the moment...)...
Since the word "God" has many different meanings, it is possible for the sentence "God exists" to express many different propositions. What we need to do is to focus on each proposition separately. … For each different sense of the term "God," there will be theists, atheists, and agnostics relative to that concept of God.
Bingo............
Also there was the dyslexic agnostic insomniac.......
He stayed up all night wondering if there really was a dog....:p
That article about "ignosticism" I posted a link to earlier made a lot of sense to me........basically the description was that ignosticism says that........(.gonna quote again here cus this says it better than I can at the moment...)...
Since the word "God" has many different meanings, it is possible for the sentence "God exists" to express many different propositions. What we need to do is to focus on each proposition separately. … For each different sense of the term "God," there will be theists, atheists, and agnostics relative to that concept of God.
Bingo............
Also there was the dyslexic agnostic insomniac.......
He stayed up all night wondering if there really was a dog....:p
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
Atheism is a belief system - a *negative* belief system in the sense that where a belief system is usually based around "we believe that ... "[/QUOTE]
...which is precisely why I don't describe myself as an atheist. I call myself a non-theist, or ambivalent. I don't have answers to such questions because a) nobody does, and b) I simply don't care.
We have enough tangible issues (i.e. things that actually exist) to deal with in this life, and thus I find debate over an invisible man (or men, women, whatever) in the sky to be completely and utterly pointless.
Religious belief has held back our species, historically and now, in ways that most people cannot understand.
Atheism is a belief system - a *negative* belief system in the sense that where a belief system is usually based around "we believe that ... "[/QUOTE]
...which is precisely why I don't describe myself as an atheist. I call myself a non-theist, or ambivalent. I don't have answers to such questions because a) nobody does, and b) I simply don't care.
We have enough tangible issues (i.e. things that actually exist) to deal with in this life, and thus I find debate over an invisible man (or men, women, whatever) in the sky to be completely and utterly pointless.
Religious belief has held back our species, historically and now, in ways that most people cannot understand.