Uncharted Territory Forerunners

I think it deserves its own topic.

Queen started off their touring life by playing some local concerts (their first concert outside England was their 45th), then going to other parts of the anglo-sphere (Australia, Scotland, Wales, America, Canada, Ireland), as well as Western Europe (Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, West Germany, France, Scandinavia, Spain and Belgium).

In the 1980's they went to uncharted territories, places where no other English-speaking act had ever been to... except that they totally had. It wasn't by any means common to go to those places in South America (Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela), Africa (Sun City), Eastern Europe (Hungary) or North America (Mexico), but it doesn't mean Queen were the first ones to go there.

So, some forerunners:

Barry White: Venezuela in 1977.

Bob Dylan: Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1984. He also went to Italy before Queen.

Bob Marley: Poland in 1978, Ivory Coast, Bahamas and T&T in 1979, Ghana in 1980.

Bon Jovi: Puerto Rico in 1984 and 1985.

David Bowie: Singapore, Hong Kong and Thailand in 1983.

Depeche Mode: China and Thailand in 1983. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Northern Ireland and (before Queen) Italy in 1984. Hungary, Greece and (again) Poland in 1985.

Dire Straits: Poland in 1981, Poland (again) and Czechoslovakia in 1983, Israel, Greece, Czechoslovakia and Serbia in 1985.

Donna Summer: Venezuela in 1977.

Elton John: Sun City a year before Queen; in 1984 he also went to China, Yugoslavia (Queen'd already played in Croatia, but not in Serbia or Bosnia), Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Poland. He visited New Zealand long before Queen did and, unlike Queen, he did play in Northern Ireland.

Iron Maiden: Serbia in 1981. Hungary, Poland, Portugal and Serbia (again) in 1984.

Jackson Five: Japan in 1973 (before Queen). 1974 in Panama, Brazil, Hong Kong and Philippines. In 1976 they went to Venezuela and again The Philippines.

Jools Holland: Venezuela in 1981 (before Queen).

Leonard Cohen: Israel in 1980. Poland, Portugal and (again) Israel in 1985.

Mike Oldfield: Greece, Poland, Czechoslovakia and Israel in 1981.

Peter Frampton: Venezuela in 1980.

Pink Floyd: Japan long before Queen. Also Poland in 1973.

The Hollies: Venezuela in 1977.

The Jacksons: 1979 in South Africa and Senegal.

The Police: In 1980 they went to India, Portugal, Mexico and Argentina. In 1981 they went to Caracas (before Queen did), 1982 to Chile and Italy, 1983 to Poland.

The Who: Poland in 1972.

Tina Turner: Venezuela in 1979, Hungary in 1985.

U2: 1984 and 1985 in Czechoslovakia.

Van Halen: Peru and Uruguay in 1983.

XTC: Venezuela in 1981 (before Queen).

Yes: 1973 in Mexico.

Sebastian, I feel a bit honoured that my unstructured thoughts in '... stats about ...concerts' led to a new topic. : -)

The list here, I have to say, is really interesting--kudos for compiling it...

I think the narrative of Queen going into uncharted territories is pretty much limited to South America. I may be having a senior moment, I may be wrong, but I don't recall any of the band histories or band members mentioning any other territory other than South America (or maybe Mexico) as one where Queen really broke new ground. I would define this "new ground" as a rock band bringing a full-fledged production in a stadium-type show to the whole continent as part of a tour. Not just, in other words, one-offs.

For example, many of the acts that played Venezuela c. 1980 were largely on the downturn popularity-wise--Barry White and Donna Summer and Jackson 5 played during the post-disco-is-dead doldrums, and Peter Frampton was post-I'm in You flop era. I'd be curious what venue(s) they played--was it a large one? Maybe they were playing outdoor concerts for 200,000 paying fans, but I suspect it was a small place. 

Or maybe it was the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliedro_de_Caracas]Poliedro[/url]. Another examples: The Police did two shows at the Polidiero, and that was the end of the first [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Machine_Tour]"South American leg"[/url] of their tour. 

At any rate, on the score of South America being toured properly by Queen, I'd say the narrative remains largely intact.

[QUOTE] [b]Daniel Nester wrote:[/b]

I don't recall any of the band histories or band members mentioning any other territory other than South America (or maybe Mexico) as one where Queen really broke new ground. I would define this "new ground" as a rock band bringing a full-fledged production in a stadium-type show to the whole continent as part of a tour. Not just, in other words, one-offs. [/QUOTE]

Yeah but it wasn't the whole continent... they went to Argentina and Brazil, then a few months later to Venezuela, and those three were the only South American countries where they played, so it's not like they took the show 'to the whole continent.' I know, I know, a tour doesn't need to go 'everywhere,' but the Jazz tour over Europe, for instance, included 28 concerts in seven countries.

In a non-romanticised unbiased objective context, the two concerts they did in Brazil could be considered 'one-offs' (two-offs?), rather than a proper tour. They did plan to go to more places (Fortaleza, I think, and Rio), but there was executive meddling.


[QUOTE] [b]Daniel Nester wrote:[/b]

At any rate, on the score of South America being toured properly by Queen, I'd say the narrative remains largely intact.[/QUOTE]

Except that it wasn't 'toured properly' any more than their four 1976 concerts over three capital cities would count as a 'proper British tour.'

They did five concerts in Argentina and two in Brazil, then they took some months to record and then they did three gigs in Venezuela (could've been more but politics got in the way), and that's all they did in South America that year. Great concerts, Fred was in great vocal shape, lovely moments they certainly treasured (John called that tour the best moment of his career), but it wasn't like they 'toured properly' over the whole continent and it's not like nobody had ever been in any of those places before.

A great achievement indeed, and one worth praising, but worth praising for what it really was: ten fabulous concerts with some mesmerising musicality, theatricality and troubleshooting (remember Fred and the mic on Save Me?). But not in the sense of trying to allocate them 'first band to do so and so...' type of accolades.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
Van Halen: Peru and Uruguay in 1983.
[/QUOTE]

LOL, was this before of after the Queen show? ;D

isn't japan missing from the first list?

[QUOTE] [b]Sheldon wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
Van Halen: Peru and Uruguay in 1983.
[/QUOTE]

LOL, was this before of after the Queen show? ;D
[/QUOTE]

Before, since Queen never played in Peru or Uruguay.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

isn't japan missing from the first list?[/QUOTE]

It wasn't uncharted by the time Queen started, as The Beatles had been there. By the time Queen were famous enough to do an international tour, Japan was one of the legs, but by then quite a few artists had been there already.

My overall point is that, while Queen's visits to Japan, Hungary, South America and Mexico (not the same thing) were certainly noteworthy, it doesn't mean they were the only artists to successfully play there. The world doesn't revolve around Roger, Freddie, John and Brian.

Fair enough. I guess the definition of "proper tour" is an elastic one.

You have too much spare time.

;-)

[QUOTE] [b]Rick wrote:[/b]

You have too much spare time.

;-)[/QUOTE]

I don't know if you're referring to me, but no, I don't. Not that it's any of your business anyway.

Not being on FB or Twitter does give me a bit of time, which is enough to research and type something like this.

My original post contained 489 words. I'm not a professional typist but I can still do it at 81 wpm, which means it took me six minutes to type that whole thing. Add about four to rephrase and whatnot and you've got ten minutes, which add up to 0.69% of a day, 0.09% of a week, 0.02% of a 30-day month like April, 0.0019% of a non-leap year like this one.

So no, 0.0019% of a year is not 'too much spare time.'

I think it's an interesting topic. It speaks to how Queen--and every other band and artist, for that matter--spins and creates their legacy and mythology. There's definitely holes you can poke into anyone's story, and Queen's is no exception. 

I had some fun poking around looking for other stories, and found this article on XTC and Jools Holland in Venezuela: [url=http://]http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/xtc-crackers-in-caracas-12327[/url]

The main way I would debunk this "uncharted territory" narrative of Queen's--if I wanted to, of course--is that these gigs in South America et al. is mentioned in the wake of "losing America" post-Hot Space. The thing is: these dates we're talking about predate Hot Space. They start during The Game tour. So it's a bit odd to think about these gigs as "Queen in exile" vis a vis North America.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]
isn't japan missing from the first list?[/QUOTE]

It wasn't uncharted by the time Queen started, as The Beatles had been there. By the time Queen were famous enough to do an international tour, Japan was one of the legs, but by then quite a few artists had been there already.
[/QUOTE]
Seb i was referring to your opening para:

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]Queen started off their touring life by playing some local concerts (their first concert outside England was their 45th), then going to other parts of the anglo-sphere (Australia, Scotland, Wales, America, Canada, Ireland), as well as Western Europe (Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, West Germany, France, Scandinavia, Spain and Belgium). [/QUOTE]

western europe had been extensively toured by loads of bands...as had japan - therefore, you omitted Japan from that list

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Rick wrote:[/b]

You have too much spare time.

;-)[/QUOTE]

I don't know if you're referring to me, but no, I don't. Not that it's any of your business anyway.

Not being on FB or Twitter does give me a bit of time, which is enough to research and type something like this.

My original post contained 489 words. I'm not a professional typist but I can still do it at 81 wpm, which means it took me six minutes to type that whole thing. Add about four to rephrase and whatnot and you've got ten minutes, which add up to 0.69% of a day, 0.09% of a week, 0.02% of a 30-day month like April, 0.0019% of a non-leap year like this one.

So no, 0.0019% of a year is not 'too much spare time.'[/QUOTE]

Ok

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

western europe had been extensively toured by loads of bands...as had japan - therefore, you omitted Japan from that list
[/QUOTE]

Good point!

Sebastian, do you have any info on how many gigs they played on a Wednesday?