Who wrote which of the songs attributed to 'Queen'?

Oscar J wrote:

I can assure you this and other threads would have been more constructive and less time consuming for everybody had you chosen your words a little more carefully.

We'll never know... by the way, I'm not forcing anybody to read or reply, so if it's time consuming it's not my fault at all.

Oscar J wrote:

But then I'm starting to doubt that you had much interest in a constructive discussion in the first place.

I do have an interest in a constructive discussion, and this has been one. Could it have been *more* constructive? Of course. But, then again, life's not black and white, and it's not a greyscale either. There are millions of colours, and not being able to see the FIR or the UV doesn't mean they don't exist.

Oscar J wrote:

[...] unnecessary relativising - using pseudo intellectual classics such as "who defines unnecessary?", "black and white/grayscale/millions of colours" [...]

I rest my case.

So.....

This thread is really getting me hard :P LOVE the fights! :D

^LOL

Still think Seb has a bit of an attitude problem though. But, hey, today I learnt that that's MY (our actually) problem not his.

I wonder how many people "our" has to consist in for it to become Seb's problem.

Well, we know Sebastian answer, but I always learn from him musically.He knows about he writes. A lot of times I'm not agree with him, but I prefer to take the good side. I apreciatte have a person like him in this forum.

Oscar J wrote:

No he didn't. He wrote the riff in the rock part, and the runs towards the end of it though.

Oh. I wonder where I got the idea that Freddie wrote the solo then... Did it ever work that way, with Freddie writing a guitar solo and then giving it to Brian to arrange (add in bends, other guitar techniques)?

Apocalipsis_Darko wrote:

Well, we know Sebastian answer, but I always learn from him musically.He knows about he writes. A lot of times I'm not agree with him, but I prefer to take the good side. I apreciatte have a person like him in this forum.

He's definitely well-read and well-informed. That's not the point of argument here. It's his methods of delivering his immense knowledge, wisdom, intelligence and enlightenment which some take umbrage to.

We marvel at his God-like ability to dissect and rebut - in a targetted fashion (usually by breaking everything someone else says into neat little sections), and using a variant of logic known as "Sebogic" (briefly, this school of logical thought teaches us that if we don't agree or we are offended, then that's our problem) - practically every negative observation made in his regard.

Oscar, I was going to reply, but I stopped a moment and realized that keeping posting would only lead to more shit. So, I sleep with my case (?).

tomchristie22 wrote:

Oscar J wrote:

No he didn't. He wrote the riff in the rock part, and the runs towards the end of it though.

Oh. I wonder where I got the idea that Freddie wrote the solo then... Did it ever work that way, with Freddie writing a guitar solo and then giving it to Brian to arrange (add in bends, other guitar techniques)?

No worries, it's easy to mix up. There has been quite a few interviews with Brian describing how he could hear the solo in his head long before it was time for him to record it. But then he'd also described how Freddie stabbed the rock riff out on the piano for him, and how he described exactly how he wanted those scale runs towards the end of the rock part.

I bet Freddie must have written guitar solos for Brian during their career, or at least provided him with parts, ideas or skeletons for the solos.

Ogre Battle is interesting - it has been claimed that Freddie composed and learned that riff on the guitar. In a way I find that story credible, because It's kind of a tricky riff to play by Queen standards - certainly not very well suited to Brians love for hammer-ons and pull-offs and somewhat sluggish right hand.

Queensongs.info claims that Great King Rat might have been written by Freddie on the guitar as well.

OK, my second part to my reply to Sebastian. I read all the replies, and i´m not going to reply to it. It´s pretty clear the level of your argumentation. I don´t know "if" Peter Straker gave Fredie´s words for IMSM, because as i said before i don´t remember the specifics - who was there - on that get toghether. But someone did, and so my point still stands. It deserves to be mentioned here. As for the David Richards issue i think it´s pretty clear for those who read my post what i wanted to say when i talked about David. And i don´t wan´t to talk about David anymore, because i know when he wrote that he was in pain. But i respect his view, and it deserved a mention on this topic too.

Before i go on, there is this:

Sebastian wrote:

It's about semantics indeed:

* Songwriter: The person who pens the lyrics.
* Composer: The person behind the harmony and melody.
* Author: A combination of the two above.
* Arranger: Who decides what the bass will do, and how backing vocals will go, etc.
* Producer: The person in charge of the ... well, product :D

Now, in many cases, we've got more than one person in each category. For 'Show Must Go On', Brian's the songwriter, Brian/John/Roger are the composers and, as a result, Brian's the chief/main/principal author. He also happens to be the main (perhaps sole) arranger and the main (perhaps sole) producer, but those go separately from what authorship actually involves. Freddie's contribution to that song, which is reduced to a line and a half of lyrics, is not enough (IMO) to consider him a co-author.

.

How do you expect to have a serious discussion after this?
I´m from Portugal, and you got me confused with your definitions, so i googled it.

So, from the http://www.thefreedictionary.com

Songwriter: One who writes lyrics or tunes, or both, for songs
Composer:One that composes, especially a person who composes music.
1. (Music, other) a person who composes music
ballad maker, songster, songwriter - a composer of words or music for popular songs
Author: 4. An originator or creator;

You´re the only one hidding behing semantics and making things more dificult to understand than what they really are. This site has people from all around the world, and you know very well that when we use the therm composer, or author, or songwriter whe are refering to the same thing, not three different things.
If i want to defirenciate the music from the lyrics i say that the lyricist is Brian and music is Freddie´s.

I don´t know if your terminology is used in music schools, but in everyday life, people like me use those three definitions as being the same. And it´s correct, judging by the dictionary.

So, in your example above, Lyrics - Brian ; Music- Brian/John/Roger, or you can differenciate in the text - Lyricist is Brian; the musical composers/authors are Brian/John/Roger. It´s easy to understand and is more accurate, because the songwriter is the guy who writes everything - at least that´s the way it´s more commonly used.

continuation

Sebastian wrote:

Mr.QueenFan wrote:

But this view just belitles a LOT what Brian did to this song.

No, it doesn't (...) .

Of course it does! You keep saying that Roger and John are responsible for 90% of the song and that is not giving credit to Brian. If you want to be accurate you say that John and Roger are responsible for the chord sequence - let´s say 10% - that is featured in 90% of the song. Brian was the guy who gave a direction to that chord sequence, and we don´t know if Brian made some corrections for it to loop perfectly or not.

But even if Brian didn´t touch the chord sequence, he is the man responsible for the other 80% of the song where it was used. He gave it a meaning. Roger and John "only" created the loop - so to speak. Creatively speaking, they´re only responsible for those 10% who then inspired Brian to create almost everything else.

Sebastian wrote:

Mr.QueenFan wrote:

Of course one could say that the chord sequence is the same throughout the song, so therefore everything is Roger and John´s except for the middle eight.

Er, no, I didn't say that. .

Of course you did! Here:

Sebastian wrote:

tomchristie22 wrote:

The Show Must Go On - Verse progression by Roger and John

It's not just the verse. The intro, chorus and all the guitar solos have the same progression. The only section of the song not to be based on that sequence is the middle-eight, which was Brian's. .

And i know you weren´t talking about lyrics and the other stuff because i wasn´t either.

Sebastian wrote:

Mr.QueenFan wrote:

What Brian did with that chord sequence is extraordinary!

Yes, nobody's denied that. .

You don´t deny it, but you never say how great of a work Brian did. Your only concern is to say that 90% of the song is Roger and John´s.

Sebastian wrote:

Mr.QueenFan wrote:

How can you discard the guitar solos that easily?

At absolutely categorically no point in any of my posts did I discard the guitar solos. .

Of course you did! Read your reply above. You don´t have to say it upfront because you never do that! You hide behind your words and attitude. You offend, but you don´t offend; You say, but you didn´t say it.

It´s in every discussion you do. And in this thread is so evident that i´m not even point it out to other queenzoners, because judging for the replies they already figured it out themselves.

You have an attitued towards Brian. It´s very obvious, and not only on this thread. You like to imply that Brian and Deacon didn´t get along, based on Deacon´s vacations, but then you didn´t say it. If Brian talks about his input in SSOR or "It´s a hard live" he´s whining; not to mention the influence of Paul Roger´s on Freddie, here Brian is a liar and so is Roger because he stated the same thing.

So yes, in your reply you discarded the guitar solos, because you focused your attention on what you thought was more important (i.e. Brian is only responsible for the middle eight).

Sebastian wrote:

Mr.QueenFan wrote:

The care with which Brian constructed each guitar line and solo deserve more credit that what you gave him.

I'm not taking any credit away from him. Please learn how to read.
.

I didn´t say you are taking credit away from Brian. I said you didn´t give enough credit to Brian. You learn how to read!

I know it seems the same thing, but life's not black and white, and it's not a greyscale either. There are millions of colours, and not being able to see the FIR or the UV doesn't mean they don't exist.

Think about it!


And i´m not going to continue this conversation with you. I don´t know if you´re having a bad day but you´re behaving like a 6 year old on this thread. I´m going to use my energy to add something meaningfull to this thread, and keep it positive because it is a nice thread.

edit. sorry triple post.

edit. sorry triple post

Mr.QueenFan wrote:

Of course it does! You keep saying that Roger and John are responsible for 90% of the song

At no point did I say they're responsible for 90% of the song. I said they're responsible for 90% of the chord progressions of the song... which is not the same thing. Again, please learn how to read.

Costa86 wrote:

I wonder how many people "our" has to consist in for it to become Seb's problem.

If I had insisted on WWTF being bass-free despite the bass being clearly audible (which it was) and being pointed out to me (which it was), then it would be my problem.

If someone told me that my ability to speak Swedish was rubbish (which would be absolutely spot on) and I took offence at that, then it would be my problem.

If I kept thinking SHA was Brian-free (which it wasn't) despite having clearly been proved wrong (which I was), then it would be my problem.

But suggesting someone should learn how to read and others taking offence at that ... no, that's not my problem.