rocknrolllover
I don't want to hear about technical aspects I just want to see these gigs in release form
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Queenman!!
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
The minute of '39 on the From Rags To Rhapsody documentary sure is an interesting study.
Clearly it's not identical to the Earls Court version of the song heard on the 2011 remaster of ANATO, which is entirely from the second night, June 7. Plenty of things indicate this, particularly Freddie's ad lib connecting the last two choruses. On the first night he says "all together" while it's "everybody" on the second. The former is used in the documentary, but the vocals (lead and backing) otherwise seem to be identical on the two versions.
I tried playing the two versions side by side, and they don't remotely match up on first glance. Instrumentally it's all different, so at least musically speaking the two clips are definitely from the two different nights. So for the new documentary they used the backing tracks from the first night, the vocals from the second night (constantly adjusting the tempo to ensure it all matches), and switched to the first night for that one ad lib so that Freddie's vocal matches the footage.
So the question is - why? Why was all this work done for a one minute clip in a documentary? Maybe the footage of the song from the second night is unusable? In that case, couldn't they have chosen another song that wouldn't have required so much work?
My theory - the work has already been done. They've got an official release in the making, similar to the Rainbow '74 material, using a compilation of both nights.
Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !?
Thoughts?
[/QUOTE]
================================
Financially it's far more interesting to tranfer a bunch of 2' inch tapes at once that just doing a few each time. So my guess is QP tranferred a few of the seventies concerts reels at the same time and start working on the ones that are interesting enough to release in any kind of format.
The minute of '39 on the From Rags To Rhapsody documentary sure is an interesting study.
Clearly it's not identical to the Earls Court version of the song heard on the 2011 remaster of ANATO, which is entirely from the second night, June 7. Plenty of things indicate this, particularly Freddie's ad lib connecting the last two choruses. On the first night he says "all together" while it's "everybody" on the second. The former is used in the documentary, but the vocals (lead and backing) otherwise seem to be identical on the two versions.
I tried playing the two versions side by side, and they don't remotely match up on first glance. Instrumentally it's all different, so at least musically speaking the two clips are definitely from the two different nights. So for the new documentary they used the backing tracks from the first night, the vocals from the second night (constantly adjusting the tempo to ensure it all matches), and switched to the first night for that one ad lib so that Freddie's vocal matches the footage.
So the question is - why? Why was all this work done for a one minute clip in a documentary? Maybe the footage of the song from the second night is unusable? In that case, couldn't they have chosen another song that wouldn't have required so much work?
My theory - the work has already been done. They've got an official release in the making, similar to the Rainbow '74 material, using a compilation of both nights.
Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !?
Thoughts?
[/QUOTE]
================================
Financially it's far more interesting to tranfer a bunch of 2' inch tapes at once that just doing a few each time. So my guess is QP tranferred a few of the seventies concerts reels at the same time and start working on the ones that are interesting enough to release in any kind of format.
dsmeer
If they would use Knebworth as a bonus, what would they release in 2026?
Oscar J
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Biggus Dickus wrote:[/b]
Also the sound on the new clips was crap.[/QUOTE]
I so disagree. It sounds wonderfully clear.
Although it's clearly gone through Pro Tools in a few places, it still sounds like it's from 1977.
Can't say the same for Rainbow (November more so than March), Hammersmith and Milton Keynes - the snare is triggered on all three. MK is the worst. Unlistenable to me as a result.
If they released a 2 hour Earls Court compilation with what we hear/see here, this may be the best Queen live release of all.
[/QUOTE]
I still think the drum mix is bad in the piece of Earls Court we got to hear in the documentary. It's quiet and reverby, sounds like he's in another room in places. Maybe I'm just used to the tight drum sound on the old version (the bass drum for example has a great click), but I hope they turn him up a few notches on the release, particularly on the hard rock numbers like DOTL. Otherwise I'm happy with the sound. :)
Also - are we sure the snare is actually triggered on those releases? It might be on MK, but the other ones don't sound nearly as bad. If you compare the official Rainbow with the soundboard, you might agree that the snare sounds similar tone- and ring-wise, it's just overproduced with compression etc. (like the rest of the audio from that show).
Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO.
Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.
[QUOTE] [b]Biggus Dickus wrote:[/b]
Also the sound on the new clips was crap.[/QUOTE]
I so disagree. It sounds wonderfully clear.
Although it's clearly gone through Pro Tools in a few places, it still sounds like it's from 1977.
Can't say the same for Rainbow (November more so than March), Hammersmith and Milton Keynes - the snare is triggered on all three. MK is the worst. Unlistenable to me as a result.
If they released a 2 hour Earls Court compilation with what we hear/see here, this may be the best Queen live release of all.
[/QUOTE]
I still think the drum mix is bad in the piece of Earls Court we got to hear in the documentary. It's quiet and reverby, sounds like he's in another room in places. Maybe I'm just used to the tight drum sound on the old version (the bass drum for example has a great click), but I hope they turn him up a few notches on the release, particularly on the hard rock numbers like DOTL. Otherwise I'm happy with the sound. :)
Also - are we sure the snare is actually triggered on those releases? It might be on MK, but the other ones don't sound nearly as bad. If you compare the official Rainbow with the soundboard, you might agree that the snare sounds similar tone- and ring-wise, it's just overproduced with compression etc. (like the rest of the audio from that show).
Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO.
Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.
Negative Creep
[QUOTE] [b]Oscar J wrote:[/b]
Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO.
Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.
[/QUOTE]
It's just weird how they're letting their sound team "produce" these things so much - archival stuff should surely be mixed to get the best out of the masters, not have some no mark have such a huge influence in completely changing every sonic detail to their own taste.
Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO.
Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.
[/QUOTE]
It's just weird how they're letting their sound team "produce" these things so much - archival stuff should surely be mixed to get the best out of the masters, not have some no mark have such a huge influence in completely changing every sonic detail to their own taste.
Vocal harmony
[QUOTE] [b]Negative Creep wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Oscar J wrote:[/b]
Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO.
Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.
[/QUOTE]
I think within QP and the Queen organization generally it's a case of jobs for the boys and keeping it in house.
It would be far better to hire an engineer and producer who have successful track records in working with old live master tapes. Increasingly it's becoming more and more frustrating listening to what the band seem to pass on as high quality and or the best available.
It's just weird how they're letting their sound team "produce" these things so much - archival stuff should surely be mixed to get the best out of the masters, not have some no mark have such a huge influence in completely changing every sonic detail to their own taste.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] [b]Oscar J wrote:[/b]
Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO.
Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.
[/QUOTE]
I think within QP and the Queen organization generally it's a case of jobs for the boys and keeping it in house.
It would be far better to hire an engineer and producer who have successful track records in working with old live master tapes. Increasingly it's becoming more and more frustrating listening to what the band seem to pass on as high quality and or the best available.
It's just weird how they're letting their sound team "produce" these things so much - archival stuff should surely be mixed to get the best out of the masters, not have some no mark have such a huge influence in completely changing every sonic detail to their own taste.[/QUOTE]
Lord Fickle
Unless I'm mistaken, they haven't yet released a complete concert from the archives, which wasn't previously available in one form or another, albeit only in part. Therefore, I can't help but be skeptical that anything 'new', such as Earls Court or Hyde Park will appear in the foreseeable future. But, I hope I'm wrong, and it would certainly be great if they carried on the current 'series' of 70s concert releases.
Nitroboy
If Earls Court is released as a compilation of both nights, I'm not sure I would buy it...
I've had enough with paying for a half-assed product. Not only in video games, but now also in music releases.
I've had enough with paying for a half-assed product. Not only in video games, but now also in music releases.
Doga
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
If they released a 2 hour Earls Court compilation with what we hear/see here, this may be the best Queen live release of all.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly this
Also, let's be positive, with two Rainbows and Hammersmith released, and probably Hyde Park and Earl's Court in the future, is easy to say the QP guys are doing a good job.
If they released a 2 hour Earls Court compilation with what we hear/see here, this may be the best Queen live release of all.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly this
Also, let's be positive, with two Rainbows and Hammersmith released, and probably Hyde Park and Earl's Court in the future, is easy to say the QP guys are doing a good job.
DepeX
I'm sorry but I don't understand why some guys here are so negative. Rainbow in my opinion is an excellent release, Hammersmith is not perfect but still a decent job from qp. Let's hope for next rainbow-styled releases.
Marknow
Hope we get HP first although obviously I would love this too, in 12 months time we will all have one of either.
musicland munich
I think we will see strict business decisions in the future. They will have an eye on sales and feedback imo.
The Beatles for example will release their body of work on streming patforms in the NEAR future ;)
As for Earls Court, well I would like to see it as an official release.
The Beatles for example will release their body of work on streming patforms in the NEAR future ;)
As for Earls Court, well I would like to see it as an official release.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]on my way up wrote:[/b]
So, the following question: why not just release night 2? It has no piano mic problems, the performance is probably even better than te first night,...
I think the simple answer to this question might be that they have more footage from night 1 (see '39 for example where they have already synched the second night audio to the first night video). And they like making compilations...
In my perfect world they'd release:
- the second night uncut in just audio format with whatever footage they have from night 2 on a blu-ray
- the first night in full with patches from the second night in places where the equipment failed[/QUOTE]
I do like your optimism.
Indeed, it looks like they're limited on footage from the second night, otherwise they would've just used the audio from the second night that came out on the ANATO remaster bonus disc.
So, the following question: why not just release night 2? It has no piano mic problems, the performance is probably even better than te first night,...
I think the simple answer to this question might be that they have more footage from night 1 (see '39 for example where they have already synched the second night audio to the first night video). And they like making compilations...
In my perfect world they'd release:
- the second night uncut in just audio format with whatever footage they have from night 2 on a blu-ray
- the first night in full with patches from the second night in places where the equipment failed[/QUOTE]
I do like your optimism.
Indeed, it looks like they're limited on footage from the second night, otherwise they would've just used the audio from the second night that came out on the ANATO remaster bonus disc.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]Biggus Dickus wrote:[/b]
If they don't have Freddie's piano mic on the multitracks, QPL might declare that as a reason for it to be unreleasable. Sure Freddie's voice from the piano mic is on the stereo mix but that might not be good enough for them cos they can't autotune it.[/QUOTE]
Correct. But never mind autotune - just basic mixing isn't possible.
But since it was a spoken segment, they could use it. And maybe they're clever enough that *not* adjusting the level was their way of telling us that the piano mic is indeed blank on the multi-tracks.
If that's the case, then surely the second night must be salvageable.
If they don't have Freddie's piano mic on the multitracks, QPL might declare that as a reason for it to be unreleasable. Sure Freddie's voice from the piano mic is on the stereo mix but that might not be good enough for them cos they can't autotune it.[/QUOTE]
Correct. But never mind autotune - just basic mixing isn't possible.
But since it was a spoken segment, they could use it. And maybe they're clever enough that *not* adjusting the level was their way of telling us that the piano mic is indeed blank on the multi-tracks.
If that's the case, then surely the second night must be salvageable.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]Lord Fickle wrote:[/b]
Unless I'm mistaken, they haven't yet released a complete concert from the archives, which wasn't previously available in one form or another, albeit only in part.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's a pretty high bar to set, since a ton of shows were bootlegged. The chance that any complete pro-shot show from any band is just collecting dust without having come out on bootleg or shown in a documentary is pretty remote.
But of all the releases, five shows are complete - Hammersmith (audio), Milton Keynes, Wembley (both), and Budapest (audio).
Official releases will continue, but I doubt this particular list will be added to. Maybe Hyde Park or Hammersmith 79? Maybe.
Unless I'm mistaken, they haven't yet released a complete concert from the archives, which wasn't previously available in one form or another, albeit only in part.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's a pretty high bar to set, since a ton of shows were bootlegged. The chance that any complete pro-shot show from any band is just collecting dust without having come out on bootleg or shown in a documentary is pretty remote.
But of all the releases, five shows are complete - Hammersmith (audio), Milton Keynes, Wembley (both), and Budapest (audio).
Official releases will continue, but I doubt this particular list will be added to. Maybe Hyde Park or Hammersmith 79? Maybe.