John and Freddie

This subject has been touched upon numerous times, but I was wondering if there is anything to substantiate the rumours that John and Freddie were especially close.

We all know that it's said that John took Freddie's passing very badly, but I'm not sure if there is actually any "evidence" (to the extent that such a thing can have evidence) of this, apart from hearsay.

Would you agree that Freddie sort of protected/shielded John while he was alive? I get the impression that Freddie loved John dearly, and might have sometimes guarded him from the rest of the band. But again, there's no evidence that I know of to substantiate this. It's more a general opinion that the quietest of the group and the biggest ego of the group had a special bond.

I think Brian had the biggest ego in the group, by far.

Anyway ... I don't think there's anything to support the idea of Fred & John having any special bond as opposed to any other pair (Fred-Rog, Bri-Rog, Fred-Bri, Rog-John, Bri-John).

Granted, Fred collaborated with John on some songs, but that doesn't mean they were closer than the others ... Brian and Roger also collaborated (Machines, One Vision...), as did Freddie and Brian, Freddie and Roger... there are no documented partnerships between John and Brian (other than The Hitman, sort of) and John and Roger (other than the Show Must Go On sequence), but that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't close; they just were into different types of music.

Also, before anyone brings it up: Hot Space was NOT a Fred/John thing. Both Brian and Roger were more involved on that album than John was, and both John and Roger hated it.

I think that it simply was the fact that Freddie gave John's songs a voice. As I recall, I think that it was Freddie who encouraged John to craete songs. Freddie's vocal arrangements really are to the forefront on Best Friend and You and I. From News of the Worls onwards, John went for a leaner mix in this respect.

My take is that because Freddie and John were not part of Smile, and therefore essentially outsiders joining the party after it had started, they were connected to each other which gave them BOTH a voice in the early stages and that lasted through the band's career.

John and Freddie had diametrically opposing personalities and perhaps the old "opposites attract" cliché rings true in their friendship.

It'd be interesting to hear from Ratty or Peter Freestone on this actually, but I'm with Sebastian in that they didn't appear to be any closer to each other than they were to Brian or Roger and vice versa.

[QUOTE] [b]CruellaDeVille wrote:[/b]

As I recall, I think that it was Freddie who encouraged John to craete songs.[/QUOTE]

There's a comment by Mick Rock suggesting that, but that doesn't mean Brian and Roger didn't encourage him, and it doesn't mean either that Fred wasn't supportive of Brian's and Roger's songwriting.

[QUOTE] [b]CruellaDeVille wrote:[/b]

Freddie's vocal arrangements really are to the forefront on Best Friend and You and I.[/QUOTE]

I don't think there's any sound evidence that those arrangements are Freddie's. They could be, but they could also be Roger's, or Brian's, or a collab, or John could've arranged those parts himself (even though he didn't sing on either song).

[QUOTE] [b]dudeofqueen wrote:[/b]

It'd be interesting to hear from Ratty or Peter Freestone on this actually, but I'm with Sebastian in that they didn't appear to be any closer to each other than they were to Brian or Roger and vice versa.[/QUOTE]

Freestone has said quite a few times that all their friendships were different. He's understandably been hesitant to rate one bond as 'tighter' than another, which makes sense.

Peter Jones (Freddie's driver) confirmed Roger was the only one who socialised with Fred. He'd only meet up with John and Brian for work (recording, rehearsing, songwriting, band meetings, touring).

The combination of John's writing and Freddie's voice, to me, provided (easily) some of Queen's greatest work.

Just off the top of my head:

[b]You're My Best Friend
Spread Your Wings
In Only Seven Days
I Want To Break Free[/b]

Fucking great.

[QUOTE] [b]Costa86 wrote:[/b] It's more a general opinion that the quietest of the group and the biggest ego of the group had a special bond.[/QUOTE]

i would think it's more likely that Freddie - and his experiences at school - may have helped him identify with the underdog/quieter one and this empathy helped to form a bond

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Costa86 wrote:[/b] It's more a general opinion that the quietest of the group and the biggest ego of the group had a special bond.[/QUOTE]

i would think it's more likely that Freddie - and his experiences at school - may have helped him identify with the underdog/quieter one and this empathy helped to form a bond

[/QUOTE]

Really good perspective. I think Freddie was basically a relative introvert deep down, with a huge amount of talent and incredible capabilities, which showcasing whilst on stage helped satisfy his need for a type of affection which some introverts crave.

Deacon( year unknown to me): We all have our own friends. I would never think of going round to Fred's house and he would come to mine. We are just poles apart in that sense.

I'm quite certain that in Jim Hutton's book, he said that John and Freddie drifted apart towards the end of Freddie's life.

[QUOTE]

[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b] I think Brian had the biggest ego in the group, by far.

Anyway ... I don't think there's anything to support the idea of Fred & John having any special bond as opposed to any other pair (Fred-Rog, Bri-Rog, Fred-Bri, Rog-John, Bri-John).

Granted, Fred collaborated with John on some songs, but that doesn't mean they were closer than the others ... Brian and Roger also collaborated (Machines, One Vision...), as did Freddie and Brian, Freddie and Roger... there are no documented partnerships between John and Brian (other than The Hitman, sort of) and John and Roger (other than the Show Must Go On sequence), but that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't close; they just were into different types of music.

Also, before anyone brings it up: Hot Space was NOT a Fred/John thing. Both Brian and Roger were more involved on that album than John was, and both John and Roger hated it.[/QUOTE]

Just curious, I've seen you say John hated HS before, but never heard it anywhere else, where is that from? Did any of them like it?

Freddie said he wanted to do it but others hated him for it because it didn't sell. Also in New Haven 1982 interview Freddie said that he thinks the songs are good but timing is bad (I think).

I sort of remember that, but never seen any comments from John, not that I doubt it, but I'm interested to know when he commented

http://deaky.net/rain/superstars-e.html: John's asked about the best and worst moments of the band's career. He says the best were Live Aid and the South American tour of 1982 (sic), and the worst was Hot Space.

http://deaky.net/tonight/ml82-12.html: It's in Japanese, but anyway ... they're asked about the (then) new album, and John replies 'I don't like it.' He then more diplomatically states it was the result of a compromise between four people and that one of the strengths of the band is that there are four songwriters.

I also seem to remember (back when I actually took the time to read all those interviews in Japanese) he once commented he hated both 'Jazz' and 'Hot Space'.

There's an excerpt from a video interview to Fred on the 'Great Pretender' doco, where Fred clearly states he 'forced the other three to do it' (referring to the album).

While the success of 'Another One Bites the Dust' (a song John wrote) was definitely the key factor in 'Hot Space' having existed to begin with, that doesn't mean John was a major force in it - he only wrote one and a half songs there, and on one of those he compromised his original plan and agreed to let Brian play a solo (thus, the result was not what he wanted). Roger, Fred and Brian, on the other hand, had a lot more power in their own songs, and the three of them were far more involved in the album's production, songwriting, recording and mixing.

Interesting, of course it could well be the heavy parts of the album he hates, maybe the fact that it was a compromise and Brian and Roger forced a more 'traditional' Queen style for side 2??
Very interesting though never heard John speak openly about the bands Albums, I wonder what he didnt like about Jazz?
Funny as primarily a drummer I've always loved the sound of the kit on You're My Best Friend, but was shocked to discover that it was John that had spent all night mixing that trying to obtain that sound and that Roger wasn't that happy with it... I've strived for years trying to re-create that sound on the Toms