Feelings (Demo) & Silver Salmon (Demo) - same session?

Hi,
it has been bothering me for a while now... Few weeks ago, I have been listening to unreleased Queen demos and suddenly I realised that 3 notes with guitars: Brian's and (probably) John's sound same (to me) on boths "tracks" (it is same part, but 2 different qualities). Just listen to those parts:
1) Feelings: 2:07-2:08
2) Silver Salmon: 0:00-0:01
(you can download those file here: https://mega.nz/#!R0YmzISLVGR_kBv1hGiAfDk1YMyUTXQfXM3ekxg1G2m4NEylIsk)

Now, info taken from www.ultimatequeen.co.uk about "Feelings":
"This track was written by Brian, and is believed to have originated in 1971, before John joined the band..."

and about Silver Salmon:
"This track is believed to have been written by Tim Staffell. [...] There is debate about when the track originates from, as some people believe it was recorded for the 'Queen' or 'Queen II' albums between 1972 and 1974, and some people believe it was recorded for the 'News Of The World' album in 1977, due to Freddie's vocal performance and the use of rototoms on the track. Some sources also suggest that the track features Barry Mitchell on bass, [i][b]instead of John[/b][/i], but apparently this rumour was started by somebody trying to sell an acetate CD of the track.

 OK, so what's the deal?

First of all, I have to underline, that I'm not an expert or anything - these are just my assumptions:

- If those songs are played one by one (editing is also possible), it means that these come from the same session/year (obviously);

- the quality is different, but on the beginning of Silver Salmon we can cear fluent transition between Feelings and Silver Salmon.

- Freddie says: [i]Try and put a bit of Silver Salmon, I know [b]he [/b]doesn't know it but he might just play on, just put, just the rhythm, see if.[/i]

[i]Who is [b]HE[/b]? Could it be John? Join has joined Queen in 1971 - and both tracks MAY ORIGINATE in 1971. [/i]

[i]- The quality is just great: do you think, they may be using De Lane Lea Studio in 1971? It doesn't sound like "a garage sound"..?[/i]

[i]We all know, that Queen was allowed to use De Lane Lea studio for "sound insulation" (don't know proper English word) and they played "heavy" songs. Both songs above are "heavy" and they perfectly fit :)[/i]

[i]OK, maybe I mixed too many theories and ideas...[/i]

[i]Feel free to comment and debate.[/i]

[i]Sorry for my English - it is not my mother tongue.[/i]

i would say the song is from 1977 since this speed corrected version sounds more natural https://youtu.be/_wOe8cK2-yg

It's most definitely from the News Of The World era, and I think that's a widely accepted consensus these days. There is nothing indicating otherwise, especially if you're familiar with Rogers drumming. Not only his kit (already pointed out - they were scrapped back in the early days), but the syncopated fills, how he uses his hi-hat, and his well practiced bass drum triplets at the end - very similar to those on the ending of It's Late.

Freddie's straining on the high notes in a way he had only started doing around 1977. His early 70's high notes were much lighter.

It's clear as a day to me. :)

Yes - all three recordings (Feelings Feelings, Feelings jam, Silver Salmon) are from the News Of The World sessions in 1977.

We've only heard the Feelings jam from a convention recording, but the other two have identical mixes. They are very likely from the same session in 77.

Roger's drum kit is the obvious indicator, but the last notes of Silver Salmon are Brian doing a bend and a right hand tap - something he began exploring in the studio in 77 after seeing a cover band while on tour in Texas doing Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers by ZZ Top.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

after seeing a cover band while on tour in Texas doing Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers by ZZ Top.
[/QUOTE]

Not quite. He saw someone doing it, and they told him they'd learnt it from that song... not the same as having seen someone covering it.

My recollection is Brian said he "stole" it from Billy Gibbons, who said he "stole" it from the bar band guy in Texas.

'I remember the first time I tried tapping,[b] I actually got the idea from someone else[/b] in the early '70s. We were on tour in Texas, and a few beverages had been consumed while we were watching[b] a bar band[/b]. The guitarist kept adding this high note as a single tap to his blues licks, and it sounded like a flute or clarinet or something. I told him I was going to nick it and he said, 'fine'! He'd nicked it off someone else anyway. [b]He said he'd heard Billy Gibbons do it on a ZZ Top album[/b], but I've listened to all their stuff since and I still don't know which track he means.' - Brian May, Total Guitar, Xmas 1998[url=http://www.brianmay.com/brian/mags&press/tgdec98/tgdec98a/tgdec98a.html] [/url]

[url=http://www.brianmay.com/brian/mags&press/tgdec98/tgdec98a/tgdec98a.html]Source[/url]

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

'I remember the first time I tried tapping,[b] I actually got the idea from someone else[/b] in the early '70s. We were on tour in Texas, and a few beverages had been consumed while we were watching[b] a bar band[/b]. The guitarist kept adding this high note as a single tap to his blues licks, and it sounded like a flute or clarinet or something. I told him I was going to nick it and he said, 'fine'! He'd nicked it off someone else anyway. [b]He said he'd heard Billy Gibbons do it on a ZZ Top album[/b], but I've listened to all their stuff since and I still don't know which track he means.' - Brian May, Total Guitar, Xmas 1998[url=http://www.brianmay.com/brian/mags&press/tgdec98/tgdec98a/tgdec98a.html] [/url]

[url=http://www.brianmay.com/brian/mags&press/tgdec98/tgdec98a/tgdec98a.html]Source[/url]
[/QUOTE]

Ahh !! Cool, thanks for clarifying.

But my overall point remains the same ;)

It's 1977, without a doubt. Roger's drumkit and Freddie's vocal range sounds exactly the same as all the other tracks that ended up on that album. Another good example to check, listen to Silver Salmon and Feelings. Then listen to the fast WWRY version from the BBC session in october that year.

Thank you all for nice discussion and comments!

^^^

my recollection is no match for your sourcing, thanks Seb :)

If you want clarification, read the sleeve notes on the 2011Deluxe Edition CD of the 'News Of The World' album.

[QUOTE] [b]GT wrote:[/b]

If you want clarification, read the sleeve notes on the 2011Deluxe Edition CD of the 'News Of The World' album.[/QUOTE]

If silver salmon from those era why this song wasn't as bonus?

Thank you

Uh oh

[QUOTE] [b]rocknrolllover wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]GT wrote:[/b]

If you want clarification, read the sleeve notes on the 2011Deluxe Edition CD of the 'News Of The World' album.[/QUOTE]

If silver salmon from those era why this song wasn't as bonus?

Thank you[/QUOTE]

That's like asking why they don't want to release rarities - it's coz they don't wanna! They want to keep 99.9% of the archives back to use in future label negotiations. It's just used as carrot dangling to get more money out of labels. Given the material (hundreds of hours of unheard studio work - nevermind live - to mine) Universal 100% want to release either massively expanded album re-issues or archive box sets. Universal will not have been happy with the "compromise" of 5 track bonus CDs of largely uninteresting material. Universal wanted to continue the series of concert releases via Eagle Rock, but QPL backed off/pulled the plug. Universal aren't a label who are going to turn unreleased Queen material down - in fact, they were begging for it and coming up against the wall than EMI did. It's their material, but I think it's very sad that they're not willing to delve in and release the great things in the archive. It isn't that they see no worth in it - perversely, it's the very opposite of that and that they use it to extract more money out of labels who bid for the rights to release their material.