Aye. Cannae disagree.
Been listening to the official podcasts and a few interviews with the team. Absolute tools every single last one of them.
dysan
Thread
Posts in chronological order
dysan
But yeah Matt - I love that albums are totally linked to those times you first heard them. So many inseparable memories that I'll treasure forever.
Sebastian
I do agree that for many people at the time, 'Innuendo' was not necessarily seen as a swan song album (even though there'd already been rumours about Frederick's declining health) and they still make up most of those who bought it at the time, at least in Britain and America.
'Innuendo' was certified gold (0.5 M) in the States on the 3rd of April 1991. So far it hasn't been certified platinum (1 M). That means people who bought it (in America) over six months before Fred's death exceed those who have bought it since, and that includes on-line streaming and all of that - of course, it's a different story for individual songs.
Similar case in Britain: the album was gold (100 k) on the first of March and platinum (300 k) on the 1st of April, and it's yet to be certified double-platinum, which means most (at least 50% + 1) of the people in the UK who've bought the album (including on-line platforms) did so long before Fred died. That obviously doesn't necessarily apply to songs (e.g. thousands of people stream or download 'Show' and 'Days' without bothering with the entire album, or get the songs via compilations) and doesn't apply to people who downloaded or copied the album but never bought it - many of which are from the on-line generation.
I mis-communicated my point if I made the impression I was bashing the album or implying the only reason why everyone who loves it, loves it, is that Fred was dying. It is, however, a factor, not for everyone, but for many people, the same way now we know The Magic Flute was the last Mozart opera premiered in its composer's lifetime but the audience at the time obviously didn't. A few decades from now, we'll all be dead and the only people who will be listening to 'Innuendo', all 100% of them, will know from the first time that it was Fred's last active involvement (MIH is a different story) and that *may* in some (or many) cases influence whether they're keen on it or not, in the sense that, everything else being equal, they're more likely to praise a great song done by a dying man than a great song done by a youngster without any serious immune deficiencies.
Same goes, by the way, for the timeline: 'News of the World' is sometimes underrated (in terms of criticism by die-hard fans, not so much in terms of sales) because it had the bad luck of coming after five great records. 'Innuendo' is sometimes overrated (and by that I do not for a second mean it's bad) because it had the luck of coming after four or five (if you count Flash Gordon) disappointing ones (for many people at least).
A 7 ft tall man is considered quite tall, but a 7 ft tall adult giraffe would be considered a dwarf. A 400 pound man is morbidly obese, but a 400 pound adult regular-sized elephant (if that's even possible, which I doubt ... but then, replace 400 by a different figure) is critically malnourished.
Would an album like 'Innuendo' be so highly rated if it'd come after 'Opera' and 'Races' (leaving aside the fact midi technology didn't exist so they would've had to do something else for loads of those synth parts et al)? Would 'News of the World' be more adored had it come after 'Magic' and 'Miracle'?
Would 'Days of Our Lives' have the same impact nowadays if it'd been a 1974 release (with real congas, no midi but also lyrics evoking different associations)? Would 'Teo Torriatte' have become a timeless classic had it been shelved until 1991 and then issued to coincide with his death ('when I'm gone')?
All of those are hypotheses, of which we shall never have a definitive answer. But they can still be, potentially, useful in some cases.
By that - and I should be careful not to be mis-interpreted here - I do not mean at all that you're 'doing it wrong' if you (and I'm using a generic 'you', not directed at anyone in particular) associate the album with your first listen (whenver that was) or if you (generic you) happen to rate it over 'News', 'The Game' or 'Jazz'. If you love the album, that's great! If you hate it, that's great! If you're anywhere in between, that's great!
'Innuendo' was certified gold (0.5 M) in the States on the 3rd of April 1991. So far it hasn't been certified platinum (1 M). That means people who bought it (in America) over six months before Fred's death exceed those who have bought it since, and that includes on-line streaming and all of that - of course, it's a different story for individual songs.
Similar case in Britain: the album was gold (100 k) on the first of March and platinum (300 k) on the 1st of April, and it's yet to be certified double-platinum, which means most (at least 50% + 1) of the people in the UK who've bought the album (including on-line platforms) did so long before Fred died. That obviously doesn't necessarily apply to songs (e.g. thousands of people stream or download 'Show' and 'Days' without bothering with the entire album, or get the songs via compilations) and doesn't apply to people who downloaded or copied the album but never bought it - many of which are from the on-line generation.
I mis-communicated my point if I made the impression I was bashing the album or implying the only reason why everyone who loves it, loves it, is that Fred was dying. It is, however, a factor, not for everyone, but for many people, the same way now we know The Magic Flute was the last Mozart opera premiered in its composer's lifetime but the audience at the time obviously didn't. A few decades from now, we'll all be dead and the only people who will be listening to 'Innuendo', all 100% of them, will know from the first time that it was Fred's last active involvement (MIH is a different story) and that *may* in some (or many) cases influence whether they're keen on it or not, in the sense that, everything else being equal, they're more likely to praise a great song done by a dying man than a great song done by a youngster without any serious immune deficiencies.
Same goes, by the way, for the timeline: 'News of the World' is sometimes underrated (in terms of criticism by die-hard fans, not so much in terms of sales) because it had the bad luck of coming after five great records. 'Innuendo' is sometimes overrated (and by that I do not for a second mean it's bad) because it had the luck of coming after four or five (if you count Flash Gordon) disappointing ones (for many people at least).
A 7 ft tall man is considered quite tall, but a 7 ft tall adult giraffe would be considered a dwarf. A 400 pound man is morbidly obese, but a 400 pound adult regular-sized elephant (if that's even possible, which I doubt ... but then, replace 400 by a different figure) is critically malnourished.
Would an album like 'Innuendo' be so highly rated if it'd come after 'Opera' and 'Races' (leaving aside the fact midi technology didn't exist so they would've had to do something else for loads of those synth parts et al)? Would 'News of the World' be more adored had it come after 'Magic' and 'Miracle'?
Would 'Days of Our Lives' have the same impact nowadays if it'd been a 1974 release (with real congas, no midi but also lyrics evoking different associations)? Would 'Teo Torriatte' have become a timeless classic had it been shelved until 1991 and then issued to coincide with his death ('when I'm gone')?
All of those are hypotheses, of which we shall never have a definitive answer. But they can still be, potentially, useful in some cases.
By that - and I should be careful not to be mis-interpreted here - I do not mean at all that you're 'doing it wrong' if you (and I'm using a generic 'you', not directed at anyone in particular) associate the album with your first listen (whenver that was) or if you (generic you) happen to rate it over 'News', 'The Game' or 'Jazz'. If you love the album, that's great! If you hate it, that's great! If you're anywhere in between, that's great!
dysan
This is what I like about talking to other fans of a band like Queen - The good and the bad (in inverted commas) is highly individual. And I'm always really interested to hear other people's takes on it. It's like explaining a dream. It's the most important thing to the person, but it rarely translated.
When discussing what I like and don't like, I find it important to add in the memories - good at bad which add to my personal evidence. Listening to Rain Must Fall makes me so happy on a sunny day - but remove my fond childhood memories of swimming in a river with the Scouts listening to the newly released Miracle album and I'll be first to admit, you're left with a pretty flimsy tune!
When discussing what I like and don't like, I find it important to add in the memories - good at bad which add to my personal evidence. Listening to Rain Must Fall makes me so happy on a sunny day - but remove my fond childhood memories of swimming in a river with the Scouts listening to the newly released Miracle album and I'll be first to admit, you're left with a pretty flimsy tune!
matt z
[QUOTE] [b]dysan wrote:[/b]
This is what I like about talking to other fans of a band like Queen - The good and the bad (in inverted commas) is highly individual. And I'm always really interested to hear other people's takes on it. It's like explaining a dream. It's the most important thing to the person, but it rarely translated.
When discussing what I like and don't like, I find it important to add in the memories - good at bad which add to my personal evidence. Listening to Rain Must Fall makes me so happy on a sunny day - but remove my fond childhood memories of swimming in a river with the Scouts listening to the newly released Miracle album and I'll be first to admit, you're left with a pretty flimsy tune![/QUOTE]
Totally. "Br'ahs" in Queen.
It's sincere fanship is very personal just as any great artist's.
Like you implied. The funny thing is it'll all mean something else to someone else, and yet it's the same "piece".
Makes a lot of sense that way - understanding the folks who knew Queen as a rock band.
This is what I like about talking to other fans of a band like Queen - The good and the bad (in inverted commas) is highly individual. And I'm always really interested to hear other people's takes on it. It's like explaining a dream. It's the most important thing to the person, but it rarely translated.
When discussing what I like and don't like, I find it important to add in the memories - good at bad which add to my personal evidence. Listening to Rain Must Fall makes me so happy on a sunny day - but remove my fond childhood memories of swimming in a river with the Scouts listening to the newly released Miracle album and I'll be first to admit, you're left with a pretty flimsy tune![/QUOTE]
Totally. "Br'ahs" in Queen.
It's sincere fanship is very personal just as any great artist's.
Like you implied. The funny thing is it'll all mean something else to someone else, and yet it's the same "piece".
Makes a lot of sense that way - understanding the folks who knew Queen as a rock band.
k-m
Sebastian: "Would an album like 'Innuendo' be so highly rated if it'd come after 'Opera' and 'Races' (leaving aside the fact midi technology didn't exist so they would've had to do something else for loads of those synth parts et al)? Would 'News of the World' be more adored had it come after 'Magic' and 'Miracle'?"
These are interesting questions, but I don't think you can surgically remove these albums from the times they were made in. It's all very hypothetical. With regards to "Innuendo", I appreciate some people may consider the context to be very important and quite frankly I don't see anything wrong with that. In a way, albums like this or "Blackstar" were designed to be seen in a certain context and it's a part of art for me. However, I do think neither of these albums would have made a big impact if the songs did not stand on their own. Look at "Hidden Treasures" by Amy Winehouse. I don't remember it being a huge seller, despite the fact it was released shortly after her death. Same goes for "This is it" single by Michael Jackson. If the song is not good enough, it will be forgotten sooner or later.
These are interesting questions, but I don't think you can surgically remove these albums from the times they were made in. It's all very hypothetical. With regards to "Innuendo", I appreciate some people may consider the context to be very important and quite frankly I don't see anything wrong with that. In a way, albums like this or "Blackstar" were designed to be seen in a certain context and it's a part of art for me. However, I do think neither of these albums would have made a big impact if the songs did not stand on their own. Look at "Hidden Treasures" by Amy Winehouse. I don't remember it being a huge seller, despite the fact it was released shortly after her death. Same goes for "This is it" single by Michael Jackson. If the song is not good enough, it will be forgotten sooner or later.
mike hunt
I bought Innuendo the day it was released, thought it was a return to form for the band. The best since The Game, and felt the same after freddie died. I still think it's a great album, though I agree nothing touches those first 8 albums. I do remember the rumors when the video for The title track came out. With the rumors and hearing songs like slightly Mad and TSMGO I pretty much knew the rumors were true. The bottom line is that loved the Record equally before and after he died.
Sebastian
[QUOTE] [b]k-m wrote:[/b]
These are interesting questions, but I don't think you can surgically remove these albums from the times they were made in. It's all very hypothetical.[/QUOTE]
True. And I did say it:
[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
All of those are hypotheses, of which we shall never have a definitive answer. But they can still be, potentially, useful in some cases.[/QUOTE]
----
[QUOTE] [b]k-m wrote:[/b]
I appreciate some people may consider the context to be very important and quite frankly I don't see anything wrong with that.[/QUOTE]
Neither do I, though I do see at least two variables, which aren't necessarily equally important:
- The fact some people may appreciate the album more because Fred was ill and it took loads of strength to make it that far.
- The fact some people may appreciate the album more because it came after four/five disappointing ones.
[QUOTE] [b]k-m wrote:[/b]
However, I do think neither of these albums would have made a big impact if the songs did not stand on their own... If the song is not good enough, it will be forgotten sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
There I fully agree: 'Show Must Go On' has stood the test of time because the way it's been written, arranged, performed, produced and generally put together has made it worthy of that timeless status.
These are interesting questions, but I don't think you can surgically remove these albums from the times they were made in. It's all very hypothetical.[/QUOTE]
True. And I did say it:
[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
All of those are hypotheses, of which we shall never have a definitive answer. But they can still be, potentially, useful in some cases.[/QUOTE]
----
[QUOTE] [b]k-m wrote:[/b]
I appreciate some people may consider the context to be very important and quite frankly I don't see anything wrong with that.[/QUOTE]
Neither do I, though I do see at least two variables, which aren't necessarily equally important:
- The fact some people may appreciate the album more because Fred was ill and it took loads of strength to make it that far.
- The fact some people may appreciate the album more because it came after four/five disappointing ones.
[QUOTE] [b]k-m wrote:[/b]
However, I do think neither of these albums would have made a big impact if the songs did not stand on their own... If the song is not good enough, it will be forgotten sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
There I fully agree: 'Show Must Go On' has stood the test of time because the way it's been written, arranged, performed, produced and generally put together has made it worthy of that timeless status.
beemack74
[QUOTE] [b]dysan wrote:[/b]
IGSM
RTWW
TSMGO
I really struggle with this album. It's a winter album. Cold artwork and cold sound - totally at odds with the summer vibe of The Miracle. I can't hear TDOOL now for obvious reasons. Was happy that it did well but was somewhat over Queen by that point in my life.[/QUOTE]
IGSM
RTWW
TSMGO
I really struggle with this album. It's a winter album. Cold artwork and cold sound - totally at odds with the summer vibe of The Miracle. I can't hear TDOOL now for obvious reasons. Was happy that it did well but was somewhat over Queen by that point in my life.[/QUOTE]
beemack74
[QUOTE] [b]dysan wrote:[/b]
IGSM
RTWW
TSMGO
I really struggle with this album. It's a winter album. Cold artwork and cold sound - totally at odds with the summer vibe of The Miracle. I can't hear TDOOL now for obvious reasons. Was happy that it did well but was somewhat over Queen by that point in my life.[/QUOTE]
IGSM
RTWW
TSMGO
I really struggle with this album. It's a winter album. Cold artwork and cold sound - totally at odds with the summer vibe of The Miracle. I can't hear TDOOL now for obvious reasons. Was happy that it did well but was somewhat over Queen by that point in my life.[/QUOTE]
dysan
Two good points beemack.
beemack74
I'm not sure what happened to my posts, I tried replying with a quote to a previous post but obviously somethings gone tits up.
dysan
You have my attention. Shoot...
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]beemack74 wrote:[/b]
I'm not sure what happened to my posts, I tried replying with a quote to a previous post but obviously somethings gone tits up. [/QUOTE]
Your solution is here:
http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1408549/to-richard-re-posts-not-coming-through-at-all.aspx
This forum engine is crap, and it's up to the users to find workarounds for these kinds of things.
I'm not sure what happened to my posts, I tried replying with a quote to a previous post but obviously somethings gone tits up. [/QUOTE]
Your solution is here:
http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1408549/to-richard-re-posts-not-coming-through-at-all.aspx
This forum engine is crap, and it's up to the users to find workarounds for these kinds of things.
beemack74
Ha, it'll be very anti-climatic now Dysan lol.
As much as I love the Innuendo album, the title track and TSMGO in particular, it does have that coldness about it for me also. The Miracle does have that hot summer feel about it, mind you it was released in may 1989,and the album (Breakthru song and video in particular), turned out to be my soundtrack to that long hot summer.
Maybe it's because Innuendo was released during the chilly February of 1991, when there was so much in the press concerning Freddie's health, that I've never been able to shake off the icy quality that I've always experienced with the album.
As much as I love the Innuendo album, the title track and TSMGO in particular, it does have that coldness about it for me also. The Miracle does have that hot summer feel about it, mind you it was released in may 1989,and the album (Breakthru song and video in particular), turned out to be my soundtrack to that long hot summer.
Maybe it's because Innuendo was released during the chilly February of 1991, when there was so much in the press concerning Freddie's health, that I've never been able to shake off the icy quality that I've always experienced with the album.