The tax system in the UK is deliberately designed to have holes in it, it could be very simple, live in the UK then you pay X depending on your earnings.... but they make it hugely complicated for a reason and that is so that the wealthy can stay here and contribute to the economy without losing 60% of everything
In the 70's 80's I don't blame Queen Pink Floyd etc all vanishing 90% tax was crazy, it was a stupid idea by the government that backfired spectacularly and saw the wealthy run to the hills draining the country of vast amounts of income. Lets face it EVERYONE trys to avoid paying tax if they can, if you own a business you hire an accountant to keep your tax exposure to a minimum, you take dividens instead of salary etc etc keeping your tax low, if you are someone that can get paid in cash you do so and don't tell me it's all declared to HMRC, and the weathly stick it in off shore investments... Fact is we simply can't fund the NHS much longer or expect pensions to fund us forever, unless 100% of us pay everything we owe, it will never happen, so we have to take what comes, a private version of the NHS, personal pensions and working longer, there's simply not enough money to go round
thomasquinn 32989 · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]
Let's not forget that both ends of the spectrum when it comes to wealth play the tax evasion game, your window cleaner, builder, plumber, etc that ask to get paid in cash.... same thing and percentage of your income wise it is much the same as sticking your fortune in the Cayman Islands.... Actually it tends to be the middle classes that prop up the tax system and pay by far the most into it.[/QUOTE]
Historically (which is all I can speak of with some authority), the middle classes, especially retailers, have been the most numerous representatives of financial frauds of various kinds. Many countries have made (comparably) fraud-proof cash registers mandatory for just that reason.
In the 19th century, it was a common British aphorism that each social class had its characteristic vice: the lower classes, alcoholism. The upper classes, gambling. The middle classes, fraud.
thomasquinn 32989 · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]
there's simply not enough money to go round[/QUOTE]
That is factually incorrect. The trouble is, many countries don't have a tax on accumulated capital, which is where most wealth is concentrated, focusing instead on income tax and sales tax.
Vocal harmony · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]
there's simply not enough money to go round[/QUOTE]
That is factually incorrect. The trouble is, many countries don't have a tax on accumulated capital, which is where most wealth is concentrated, focusing instead on income tax and sales tax.[/QUOTE]
That is fact, but the result (of that) as Togg says is that there is not enough money to go round because it is often channelled in one direction
Off Shore banking does results in paying tax, that's how places like the Channel Islands survive, it's just a much lower threshold and therefore a better economic prospect for those putting money there.
In the UK the problem was largely triggered by the 90% tax situation. As Holly pointed out it was on earnings above a certain amount, but what Holly didn't point out was that if your earning crept into that bracket, if you paid the tax owing under that system your net income could fall below that of people earning less!
The system was and still is far more complex then it needs to be, and that is what has resulted in this legal loop hole being taken advantage of.
Togg · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]
Let's not forget that both ends of the spectrum when it comes to wealth play the tax evasion game, your window cleaner, builder, plumber, etc that ask to get paid in cash.... same thing and percentage of your income wise it is much the same as sticking your fortune in the Cayman Islands.... Actually it tends to be the middle classes that prop up the tax system and pay by far the most into it.[/QUOTE]
Historically (which is all I can speak of with some authority), the middle classes, especially retailers, have been the most numerous representatives of financial frauds of various kinds. Many countries have made (comparably) fraud-proof cash registers mandatory for just that reason.
In the 19th century, it was a common British aphorism that each social class had its characteristic vice: the lower classes, alcoholism. The upper classes, gambling. The middle classes, fraud.[/QUOTE]
Of course they are they are the easy pickings and the the ones that don't have the power to hide as well, the low paid aren't worth chasing and the top end of the spectrum is very well insulated against getting caught. Actually fraud is far more rampant in the upper class with the likes of investment banking and CEO's, but it;s the middle class that get targeted because they are the ones the governement wishes to stop. My wife is a financial crime expert and works with teh regulators in the financial service sector, the top end of fraud is running out of places to hide and you will soon see bankers going to jail, but the middle class folk who run businesses up and down the country have very few places to hide, their accountants have to be much more open to the HMRC than ever before and so they are the ones that tend to get caught the most, but fact we all do it when we get the chance, who doesn't like a discount for cash??
Togg · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]
there's simply not enough money to go round[/QUOTE]
That is factually incorrect. The trouble is, many countries don't have a tax on accumulated capital, which is where most wealth is concentrated, focusing instead on income tax and sales tax.[/QUOTE]
There's money in the system yes, but not enough tax revenue, we in the UK fall WAY short of funding pensions and the NHS.
Scotland thinks it can go it alone.... ha, well nobody has mentioned the fact it has a £16 billion shortfall in tax now that the rest of the Uk pays to keep them afloat, with less people in Scotland than there are in London, how are they ever going to pay for NHS, Pensions, Military, Police, Firemen.... it;s impossible with 6 million people.
But teh UK as a whole simply doesn't have the tax reveune to pay for everything, we'd all have to be at the 90% mark to evern get close.
