Golden Salmon's Innuendo Collection

True

[QUOTE] [b]Ale Solan wrote:[/b]

Self Made Man was edit by someone in here, can't remember who, there are not two versions, just one.[/QUOTE]
Can you please provide your source? I mean, the differences are there. The genuine audience recording (2001) does not match the rougher, hiss-ridden version (2005), but it does match the complete, very clear sound, high quality version. There are details you can't just fake, such as the different volume levels on top of at least one extra detail you can hear in the intro (a sort of guitar twang in the 2005 version not present in the others). If someone really did engineer the audio in the high quality version, they do deserve some special recognition and I'm ready to eat crow in that case.


[QUOTE] [b]la_ultra_zona wrote:[/b]

Great![/QUOTE]

You've been credited :-P


[QUOTE] [b]Freddie rey wrote:[/b]

Amazing as always mate. What about doing this for each album? :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]dave76 wrote:[/b]

This is what the band should have released back in 2011 as part of their 40th anniversary. I hope you will do more albums.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! But I'm sorry, I won't. Most of the work for this was already done through the research and making of my big share, so I just decided to simply give it some more content, spruce it up a bit and hopefully creating something nice enough for everyone to enjoy. If I were to make any more similar collections, I definitely wouldn't do anything else in my free time for the next months or years - these things are highly time-consuming.

Personally, I'm satisfied because these shares allowed me to go deeper into the music I love and discover/rediscover some interesting tracks. But on the other hand, I can't shake off the emptiness I feel when I realise I'm getting pretty much nothing out of this in the real world other than said personal satisfaction. And I'm not talking about money.


And sometimes too, you can get worse than nothing:

[QUOTE] [b]Kuijpy wrote:[/b]

Sorry but all these songs you can find easily on YouTube, people that react here are so very fast pleased..

For the Miracle: Type on YT, Queen - Miracle whole album

Than all the remixes, The eye versions..

Than the known demo's and there it is, another tread..[/QUOTE]
Cool! So youtube hosts lossless audio now? Every version in this quality, presented like this and permanently available for offline devices? Please post links for every complete Queen and solo album, with all the extra tracks and rarities!

I'm waiting...

[QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]Freddie rey wrote:[/b]

Amazing as always mate. What about doing this for each album? :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]dave76 wrote:[/b]

This is what the band should have released back in 2011 as part of their 40th anniversary. I hope you will do more albums.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! But I'm sorry, I won't. Most of the work for this was already done through the research and making of my big share, so I just decided to simply give it some more content, spruce it up a bit and hopefully creating something nice enough for everyone to enjoy. If I were to make any more similar collections, I definitely wouldn't do anything else in my free time for the next months or years - these things are highly time-consuming.

Personally, I'm satisfied because these shares allowed me to go deeper into the music I love and discover/rediscover some interesting tracks. But on the other hand, I can't shake off the emptiness I feel when I realise I'm getting pretty much nothing out of this in the real world other than said personal satisfaction. And I'm not talking about money.


And sometimes too, you can get worse than nothing:

[/QUOTE]

what a shame :( you need to know that for me, your compilations are one of the best things on queenzone on the last couple of years. Great job, and thanks for spending that time compiling it

[QUOTE] [b]Golden Salmon wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Ale Solan wrote:[/b]

Self Made Man was edit by someone in here, can't remember who, there are not two versions, just one.[/QUOTE]
Can you please provide your source? I mean, the differences are there. The genuine audience recording (2001) does not match the rougher, hiss-ridden version (2005), but it does match the complete, very clear sound, high quality version. There are details you can't just fake, such as the different volume levels on top of at least one extra detail you can hear in the intro (a sort of guitar twang in the 2005 version not present in the others). If someone really did engineer the audio in the high quality version, they do deserve some special recognition and I'm ready to eat crow in that case.


[QUOTE] [b]la_ultra_zona wrote:[/b]

Great![/QUOTE]

You've been credited :-P


[QUOTE] [b]Freddie rey wrote:[/b]

Amazing as always mate. What about doing this for each album? :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]dave76 wrote:[/b]

This is what the band should have released back in 2011 as part of their 40th anniversary. I hope you will do more albums.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! But I'm sorry, I won't. Most of the work for this was already done through the research and making of my big share, so I just decided to simply give it some more content, spruce it up a bit and hopefully creating something nice enough for everyone to enjoy. If I were to make any more similar collections, I definitely wouldn't do anything else in my free time for the next months or years - these things are highly time-consuming.

Personally, I'm satisfied because these shares allowed me to go deeper into the music I love and discover/rediscover some interesting tracks. But on the other hand, I can't shake off the emptiness I feel when I realise I'm getting pretty much nothing out of this in the real world other than said personal satisfaction. And I'm not talking about money.


And sometimes too, you can get worse than nothing:

[QUOTE] [b]Kuijpy wrote:[/b]

Sorry but all these songs you can find easily on YouTube, people that react here are so very fast pleased..

For the Miracle: Type on YT, Queen - Miracle whole album

Than all the remixes, The eye versions..

Than the known demo's and there it is, another tread..[/QUOTE]
Cool! So youtube hosts lossless audio now? Every version in this quality, presented like this and permanently available for offline devices? Please post links for every complete Queen and solo album, with all the extra tracks and rarities!

I'm waiting...[/QUOTE]

Sorry buddy, but the "rough" version and the "longer" version are the same, the first one had cut-off the intro from the longer version, that's all.

The longer version should be the same from the convention. I assume you grabbed the longer version from the "Spaced Out" bootleg with demos and other (2008) and before that, someone shared the longer version here at Queenzone. That bootleg takes the longer version previously shared here.

Now listening closer, the shorter version you shared it's a fan mix, someone took part of the outro and mixed it with the shortened intro to make it sound "larger".

Here is the original shorter Self Made Man (4.24)

In summary, there is only one version. The 4.46 minutes longer.

The one I shared it's 4.24 minutes and misses a big part of the intro.

The one with 4.38 minutes it's a fan mix using part of the outro from the 4.24 minutes longer.

Well, this is interesting then! (Silence added at the beginning of the first two tracks to line them up.) [b]Fact:[/b] 4:18 version (2001 convention) is genuine, but the outro fades out too early. [b]Fact:[/b] 4.46 version (full/complete and best quality) is a 100% match of the 2001 version. I have compared waveforms and spectrograms to check this (as seen above), on top of listening to the actual tracks. Now, I think you are right in saying that the 4:38 version I shared was altered by someone from an original source, most certainly the 4:24 one (I did not have this version! Thanks!). Now I see how they actually took a part of the outro and merged it with the cut intro (that "twang" I talked about gives it away). This makes the 4:24 version genuine and the 4:38 one a fake. Essentially, the information in both [url=http://www.queenvault.com/innuendo.html]Queenvault.com[/url] and [url=http://www.ultimatequeen.co.uk/queen/songs/unreleased-songs.htm#Self%20Made%20Man]ultimatequeen.co.uk[/url] is wrong! Both of them list the 4:38 fake version with no real insight into the different sources. We proved it :-) Also, speeds don't fully match. Both the original rough version (4:24) and the fan mix / fake rough version (4:38) run ever so slightly slower than the correct speed present in the convention and full/complete versions. But this is consistent with the same source that provided the rough Robbery and My Secret Fantasy (slightly cut intro). However! [b]We can still conclude there are two different versions indeed[/b]. The outro in the rough version is full volume and runs up to 4:48, while the complete version fades out before it ends at 4:46. The 2 second difference is due to the incorrect speed in the rough version, but the point is that you get to hear a little bit more of the track in the rough version. Essentially, there are two different sources of these three well-known Innuendo demos. It may be the same track with no musical differences, yet a little something is missing/present in the other source. Unless there's a no fade-out version of the complete track that I don't have. I will update the collection later, with a corrected rough version and credits to you, Ale Solan :-)

Since all of these are lossy, it may be interesting to look further at the discarded frequencies above 16 kHz.
The >16 kHz signature for the long version is clearly different than the others and reveals some eq boost.
To me there is only one source, long and not equalized, who produced the two available versions: the not equalized short (4:24), and the equalized long (4:46).

Spectralwise the convention version is consistent with the short version, not with the long one as you think (yes they have the same speed but this means nothing).
And the best quality attribute (considering both are lossy) belongs to the shorter version, who is practically and edit of the original, not to the longer one who is dubiously boosted.

[QUOTE] [b]aristide1 wrote:[/b]

Since all of these are lossy, it may be interesting to look further at the discarded frequencies above 16 kHz.
The >16 kHz signature for the long version is clearly different than the others and reveals some eq boost.
To me there is only one source, long and not equalized, who produced the two available versions: the not equalized short (4:24), and the equalized long (4:46).

Spectralwise the convention version is consistent with the short version, not with the long one as you think (yes they have the same speed but this means nothing).
And the best quality attribute (considering both are lossy) belongs to the shorter version, who is practically and edit of the original, not to the longer one who is dubiously boosted.


[/QUOTE]

Here Golden Salmon, as aristide said, there is only one version. The longer version (4.46) comes from a completer rough version which it hasn't been shared so far, and is highly eq'ed and if it misses two seconds from the outro I guess is due to editing/eq'ing matters.

The rough and incomplete version should the 4:24 minutes long. The real rough/longer version is still unavailable to us.

[QUOTE] [b]Ale Solan wrote:[/b]

Here Golden Salmon, as aristide said, there is only one version. The longer version (4.46) comes from a completer rough version which it hasn't been shared so far, and is highly eq'ed and if it misses two seconds from the outro I guess is due to editing/eq'ing matters.

The rough and incomplete version should the 4:24 minutes long. The real rough/longer version is still unavailable to us.[/QUOTE]

Sure, let's be more specific: there is one version of the song (musically speaking), but two different sources are available (4:24 and 4:46), with slightly different content and sound qualities beyond speed and completeness. In any case, the 4:38 version is not genuine as far as we can tell.

[QUOTE] [b]Golden Salmon wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Ale Solan wrote:[/b]

Here Golden Salmon, as aristide said, there is only one version. The longer version (4.46) comes from a completer rough version which it hasn't been shared so far, and is highly eq'ed and if it misses two seconds from the outro I guess is due to editing/eq'ing matters.

The rough and incomplete version should the 4:24 minutes long. The real rough/longer version is still unavailable to us.[/QUOTE]

Sure, let's be more specific: there is one version of the song (musically speaking), but two different sources are available (4:24 and 4:46), with slightly different content and sound qualities beyond speed and completeness. In any case, the 4:38 version is not genuine as far as we can tell.[/QUOTE]

The content it's the same, there are no differences musically speaking. Queen didn't record two different demos (as far as we know)

[QUOTE] [b]Ale Solan wrote:[/b]

The content it's the same, there are no differences musically speaking. Queen didn't record two different demos (as far as we know)[/QUOTE]

Same content musically speaking, definitely. However, there's an extra 2-3 seconds at the end of the 4:24 track that are not present in the nearly complete track. We just can't ignore that, whether we call it a different version, source or whatever.


I'm going to document it like this, hopefully most can agree with this explanation:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

09 Self Made Man (convention audience recording, cut outro) (4:18) *
10 Self Made Man (cut intro, full outro, rough transfer - from Ale Solan) (4:24) *
11 Self Made Man (nearly complete, outro fades out early, equalized, best quality) (4:46) *

* [b]All “Self Made Man” files feature significant differences[/b], which aren't properly documented anywhere. I’ve included waveform and spectrogram comparisons (all tracks lined up with added silence) so that you can see the differences among them. The convention recording misses most of the outro. The rough recording misses most of the intro but features a full volume outro that’s lost in the otherwise complete, best quality equalized source. A widely spread 4:38 recording also exists, but it's a sort of fake version with an outro excerpt merged with the cut intro, as if it was an attempt to restore what's missing.

Again Golden Salmon, there are no several versions of the demo, Queen recorded (as far as we know) just one version of this song. The differences you mention are no significant, anyone can edit out an intro or outro o rise up the volume of any part and spread several versions like they are original on itselves.

If we'd have to document a version, let's say it should be a 4:48 minutes version which isn't available publicly so far. Let's not confuse people with 24 different versions of nothing.